Michigan's Pass Pro Scheme?

Submitted by Caesar on

The blog has discussed at great length Michigan's improvement in the run game and the basic blocking that comes with it. However, I'm wondering how Michigan goes about its pass protection. Until a recent googling, I wasn't even aware of different approaches, but this blog post, for example, points out some different protection schemes.

I think the ultimate question I'm hoping to answer is whether Michigan has any chance of pass protection improvement it's seeing in the running game. I guess that I should also keep in mind that it's maybe less a matter of strategy and more of talent.

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Football
O-line
2017
pass protection
development

MGB

November 9th, 2017 at 5:22 AM ^

I don't know much about pass pro schemes.. but it seems to me like we should try a scheme that stops the other team from getting to our quarterback.

Joined: 11/29/2015

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tlh908

November 9th, 2017 at 6:26 AM ^

How is asking questions an apprioatte post? There are numerous threads this could have been asked in. I miss the days where post had to have original content.

Joined: 09/25/2010

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AmayzNblue

November 9th, 2017 at 6:40 AM ^

What kind of place will this become if people can’t ask questions. The founder is a guy who started this blog to learn more about the intricacies of football. You know that often questions asked within a thread are never answered or snarky comments are made in response.

Give the guy a break!

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PapabearBlue

November 9th, 2017 at 9:12 AM ^

I'm guessing you aren't aware that this is actually what the board used to be like. People didn't start a post unless they actually had content to post. New posts were typically reserved for breakdowns that you had made on your own and for news.

If you had a good breakdown of passing protection schemes you'd post it here. If you wanted to know you could google it yourself, there are tons of explanations of passing schemes out there.

On top of that, I've asked several football related questions inside relevant topics and gotten good answers to all of them.

Joined: 07/19/2011

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brad

November 9th, 2017 at 8:09 AM ^

This is great logic, because if only every single mgocommenter would just couch their pointless irrelevance in an already created thread, we would literally NEVER need a new thread. Sure it would totally unwieldy, need a google-like search function to notice something interesting, and ultimately drive off most people, but we would NEVER EVER need a new thread!

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PapabearBlue

November 9th, 2017 at 9:14 AM ^

You've been here long enough to remember when topics like this weren't created and the board functioned just fine. This website is what it is because of what it used to be. People came here because it wasn't full of mlive level content, if there was content on the page it was valuable. New topics were reserved for viable analysis and news and there was still pretty constantly new content. The new content just happened to not be a bunch of snowflake threads and "pleas for perspective".

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brad

November 9th, 2017 at 9:37 AM ^

I would have to say my recollection of the post-haloscan old days here is quite a bit different than yours. The WLA guys made this board unreadable for quite a while, for example. The informal policing of this board is ironically the most annoying aspect of it, not the large influx of new readers/posters, just my opinion.

Joined: 06/30/2008

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Inman

November 9th, 2017 at 6:46 AM ^

Talent than scheme. However scheme is often decided by the talent obviously. It is tough for inexperienced good but not great olineman to get comfortable and be effective in more complex schemes or even just pro style pass routes wher they need to protect while the longer routes develop. As their talent improves and it will there will be more wrinkles they can take on.... to sum it up, talent matters most just like with anything.

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reshp1

November 9th, 2017 at 7:03 AM ^

I remember back in 2013 we tried to dump the more complex schemes and switched to slide protection or half slide and MSU ate Gardner alive because the back just could not deal with the DE the line slid away from.

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Caesar

November 9th, 2017 at 7:17 AM ^

Thanks for the serious response. Does that mean we're a 'big on big'/'back on back' outfit, then? Also, do you know if pass pro concepts can be uncoupled from running concepts? For example, if you run power, does that mean you are probably going to run a certain pass protection scheme? 

Joined: 03/25/2009

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reshp1

November 9th, 2017 at 11:33 AM ^

BOB is the "base" protection for the most part, but it's even more complex than that. They have a fairly complex ruleset based on defensive alignment for how to handle stunts, delayed blitzes, when the back should release, etc. You pretty much have to at this level because there are a lot of things people can do to mess with basic concepts. Harbaugh also runs a lot of misdirection to disguise run vs pass, including pulling a lineman for the DE. 

This is a big part of why having a veteran at C is so important, he gets up on the line, sees the front and calls the right protection adjustmets based on that and the play call, and also the correct MIKE everyone is supposed to index off of.

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Squash34

November 9th, 2017 at 11:44 AM ^

If the other team keys the guards gap run blocking makes it much easier to figure out if it is a run or pass, unless you pull the guards on play action. When you run zone blocking it is much harder to figure out if it is a run or pass. I always figured this was a big reason why Harbaugh wanted to bring Frey on. This is probably not helpful from the schematic standpoint that you are looking for but my knowledge of oline pass blocking schemes are not as advantage as other positions.

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EGD

November 9th, 2017 at 7:25 AM ^

I think this 2012 Smart Football article is the place to start here.  It discusses different ways that offenses can use pulling guards on play-action passing plays to more effectively sell the run fakes.  The first example in the artlcle is Stanford's play-action scheme off of Power O:

 

I don't know if Harbaugh came up with that himself, but it's certainly something I have noticed M running this season.

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StraightDave

November 9th, 2017 at 9:01 AM ^

But I think the improvement in the run game had more to do with Rutgers and Minnesota than anything else. 

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SunDiegoBlue

November 9th, 2017 at 9:43 AM ^

Could you argue the failures this year have not stemmed from primarily youth or talent? My understanding is what has made Coach Harbaugh successful has been simple old school football with crazy amounts of competition to keep pushing people. Though the latter is still in place, but they changed so many offensive philosophies in the offseason knowing many of the players are new/young. Zone blocking and Pep passing. These are interest concepts when your team is not new to playing college football. If you have been on the team under Harbaugh the last few years all of that schematic knowledge was rendered useless when there is a massive scheme overhaul like the one that took place this pasted offseason. It was like a regime change offensively which always comes with bumps in the road. The validity in the argument comes from watching them for the most part scrap the new philosophies for the original ones. When you change all the philosophies it makes the older players seem like young players and the young players seem like high schoolers. Also wondering why it takes your tretited father who doesn’t know probably as much about these brand new schemes to tell you, “son run more counter”. Just a thought.

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Squash34

November 9th, 2017 at 12:19 PM ^

What has made harbaugh so successful was the fact that he ran an old fashioned system with new modern concepts. There was a article a year or two ago about how harbaugh was doing things from a pro style that has never been done before. He is always going to do things to keep his offense to be "multiple" in scheme and packages. Keeping defense on their toes and making them harder to prepare for. Sure, adding the more complex zone run blocking scheme would be better if they had an experienced line. But the younger line would still take time to gel. There is a reason why teams that have the better lines in college football are full of upperclassmen. You typically would like I guy to wait until his 3rd year for a lineman to start unless they are really advanced both physically and with technique. This is more true when you run zone blicking which is more complex and needs guys to be comfortable working together and have the experience to adapt on the go when things happen you don't expect. The same goes for wrs who typically don't have a very extensive route tree. Therefore, it would have been better to bring pep in last year because the older wrs would be better at running the routes. However, the young group this year would still need time to get this stuff down no matter if there was a change. Youth and inexperience is a huge factor that mist people don't really give enough credence to. As the year goes on you see the young guys getting better with each week of experience. You can say it is because they went back to gap, however they we're not exactly killing it in earlier games when they ran gap schemes either. The line has gotten better identifing their blocks, the wrs seem to be better and the backs vision of the backs are better as well. I think ego is the furthest thing to do with the change also. If harbaugh had an ego problem he would never want to freshen up his offense, so to speak.

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BG Wolverine

November 9th, 2017 at 11:09 AM ^

I used to play guard and the scheme we used was lineman block the guy in your area.  So if a twist is ran by the D Line, the O lIne needs to pass the guy off and not follow him.  if no one came in your area at the snap you could help beside you but needing to be alert for a delay blitz.  Never abandon your area.  What I see UM lineman doing way too much is getting beat on simple twist stunts because someone followed the first twist guy out of their space leaving the door wide open.  And if the back is there for extra help, he is caught off guard and makes a poor block.  I also see lineman who at the snap have no one to block and bail immediately to help leaving the door wide open for a delay blitz.  I think this is what happend to Ruiz when Peters got drilled on that one play.  Sounds simple but I understand there is way more to it.  Experience could be a big factor with this.

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