Jim Harbaugh freshman DTs are "very close" to breaking through
This should be a breath of fresh air for everyone wondering why a fullback is playing at DT
October 1st, 2019 at 9:01 AM ^
After re-watching the game, Glasgow whiffed on three tackles. He missed badly and had to chase plays. He was picked on with slants and crossing routes. He took poor angles on them and gave up 7 yard chuncks. More often then not, he got caught up in the wash on running plays. He was credited with 1 solo tackle for the day. So, Harbaugh was being very generous when he said that Glasgow played well.
October 1st, 2019 at 2:47 PM ^
Chuncks’d
October 1st, 2019 at 7:57 AM ^
As much as I hate to admit it, but maybe a guy who has been in a college strength and conditioning program for 3 years, and been practicing and playing against better competition that amount of time, is just better than freshman. When Hinton got in the game Saturday for the last 2 series, he didn't look very good, and he's better than Mazi at this point, according to the coaches.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:03 AM ^
Maybe just maybe the DT's need depth in a desperate way and they recruited to fill up that depth. Those guys, even without S&C can fill a need. No one is asking them to play half a game but the can play 10-15 snaps a game. Sorry Jess Speight and Mason, no matter how long they have been in S&C, can't get it done at all.
And I don't want to hear about their red shirts either because they could be in the portal like Solomon as quick as they came in.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:12 AM ^
You fill that depth each class. Too many tweeners they expect will grow into sde/3techdt. The 2017 class is not getting any contribution since 3 of five players are gone, one we haven't seen this season. No depth should not be a problem at this stage of Harbaugh's tenure and it is because every other class there is no DT taken. And they are repeating it again this coming recruiting class.
October 1st, 2019 at 11:21 AM ^
This is my biggest criticism & imo the major reason the Wisconsin game happened.
Roster management, especially on the dline has been head scratching. Way too many tweeners. The lack of true DT’s was clear even before solomon transferred yet they loaded up on players like upshaw, Morris, Welch & the like. I did & still do really like the Smith/Hinton pickups but don’t understand why there’s isn’t similar players in each class or at least targets.
I will say, the aforementioned players/tweeners will have a few years in the program & “maybe” we will start seeing dividends next year but so far it’s been disappointing to say the least.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:12 AM ^
You fill that depth each class. Too many tweeners they expect will grow into sde/3techdt. The 2017 class is not getting any contribution since 3 of five players are gone, one we haven't seen this season. No depth should not be a problem at this stage of Harbaugh's tenure and it is because every other class there is no DT taken. And they are repeating it again this coming recruiting class.
October 1st, 2019 at 9:54 AM ^
Maybe we miss Mattison?
October 1st, 2019 at 1:56 PM ^
i would think there would be a 330lb grad transfer DT band aid in the portal every year. might have been a good idea to get one this year...and next year.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:07 AM ^
Generally agree but one point against your S&C piece, I believe it was Mazi Smith that had Donovan Jeter saying this in spring:
“Wanna talk about a monster,” Jeter said. “The first day like upper body (training) — I’m one of the strongest benchers on the team and he’s making the weight I’m doing look light. I’m sitting there like, ‘Maybe I need to re-evaluate myself!’"
October 1st, 2019 at 8:54 AM ^
Yeah, and everyone on the team will tell you Ben Mason is the strongest guy on the team, so what's your point? This is where Hinton enters the game #15, 1:49. Mind you, this is against Rutgers backups. He's not ready for a rotational spot.
October 1st, 2019 at 9:25 AM ^
I strongly disagree with your reasoning. From where you started the video:
Snap 1: Hinton pushes #45 of Rutgers a yard into the backfield just as the back is going by.
Snap 2: Hinton stands up to a double, constricts the hole, and allows the S to make a tackle for a 3 yard gain.
Snap 3: Hinton fires off the snap a half second before the rest of the line; play is a screen which goes the other way (the one Hill disabled, with cleanup from Gil)
Snap 4: Hinton drives the C back and almost helps pay off the bend and rush from the DE. Sitkowski, who is inexplicably not sacked, gets flushed out and is able to scramble for a few.
I did not look past these snaps, but I mean that is a lot of impact in just four snaps of garbage time.
Edit: now with photos, unfortunately in this order: Snap 4, Snap 1, Snap 2, Snap 3 (posting from phone).
October 1st, 2019 at 9:46 AM ^
Really? I see a guy playing at half speed compared to the rest of the D, getting stalemated in all 4 plays by a cyan circle Rutgers O-lineman.
Not saying he can’t get mentally faster and physically stronger over the season, but he’s clearly not processing things as fast and does not have the strength of even a Ben Mason yet.
October 1st, 2019 at 10:03 AM ^
Are we looking at the same player? Take a look at the last photo in my post above. Hinton is the one already fired into his guy while the other DL are still reacting to the snap. Does that look like a guy playing at half speed to you?
October 1st, 2019 at 10:39 AM ^
The play he gets a little push, the Oline is pass blocking. The lineman steps back. The other play he gets stood up and no movement.
October 1st, 2019 at 10:46 AM ^
#45 is a redshirt backup TE, and he stands Hinton up and stones him. The other play is a pass play (of course he gets a push) and he can't get around the center.
October 1st, 2019 at 10:17 AM ^
I'm not sure what you're looking at - this is evidence that he's not ready? 2nd play he's doubled (really tripled for a moment), stays at the line, and is in on the tackle, or at least part of the scrum. 3rd play goes away from him, but he absolutely CHUCKS the offensive lineman to the ground. I mean that's incredible strength. Rest of the plays he looks fine.
This is exactly what a stepping stone to competitive snaps looks like.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:10 AM ^
I thought I saw Hinton get good push at least twice when he was in.
October 1st, 2019 at 7:57 AM ^
It’s gonna be very annoying when they all end up being perfectly competent and better than the current starters like happened with peters and okorn
October 1st, 2019 at 7:59 AM ^
Peter's wasn't ready, and the Oline wasn't ready, and it had an adverse effect on Peters confidence and play.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:04 AM ^
Huh? Peters was fine. Considerably better than okorn even in madison
October 1st, 2019 at 9:35 AM ^
I'll never understand why Peters didn't start over JOK. He was much better and a better athlete overall.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:35 AM ^
No one is asking these kids to start. They can have a role. They were recruited to play at Michigan. Maybe they should re evaluate how they go about recruiting DTs if these kids can't fill that role.
I also think new DL coach should be under some heat as well. It is tough to follow one of the best DL coaches in Michigan history but so far he isn't getting done.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:58 AM ^
Relax.
Smith was an early enrollee so that is disappointing he hasn't been more ready to see the field. Hinton was not.
With the lack of available bodies I'm sure they would have been in there if they were ready.
The greatest DT in Michigan history, Mark Messner, redshirted his first year!
October 1st, 2019 at 11:31 AM ^
Jury is still out on Nua.
He was dealt a very unbalanced line to begin with & Dwumfour seemingly always working through something has only made it worse. I think Kwity & Hutch have both played well & made noticeable improvements. Kemp is definitely improved as well & played admirably but he’s not a Michigan level DT.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:04 AM ^
A better example for your analogy would be Joe Bolden playing over Ben Gideon.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:27 AM ^
They both work. Throw in Ulizio starting over anyone as well. Gil over Ross last year too.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:53 AM ^
This one still pisses me off years later. Gedeon is a decent NFL starting LB now, and was clearly miles better than Bolden in games back then. Bolden must've been the greatest practice player of all-time!!
October 1st, 2019 at 9:22 AM ^
And to think Mattison wanted a whole room of Joe Boldens. Would’ve lined up 11 of em. Gedeon flashed his ability in just his first game against Ohio St
October 1st, 2019 at 7:59 AM ^
Hinton is going to burn his RS so I’m not sure why he hasn’t gotten more run in the MTSU and Rutgers games, at the least.
I can see Brown waiting until the last 4 games to play Mazi to preserve his RS.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:37 AM ^
This!! It should of been clear they are needed this year and those games are prefect to see.
October 1st, 2019 at 9:02 AM ^
Have ... should have been clear. Coaches must not know what they’re doing, amirite? But, cobra14 has it all figured out, amirite? Just play them ... and while you’re at it, just Chuck it Up every play, amirite?
Dipshit!
October 1st, 2019 at 9:05 AM ^
Actually I have more figured out than you think pal. But keep coming at me and I'll keep proving you wrong. You tried before and failed miserably.
October 1st, 2019 at 11:05 AM ^
Miserably, huh? If you say so. So much figured out that you wrote, “should of” ... makes sense.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:00 AM ^
I've been on the "play them now!" bandwagon but when you take a step back these guys that are super talented will show mass improvement every single week. It is logical to believe that in fall camp and through the first half of the season they are just not consistent enough but showing rapid improvement in practice to the point they are ready to contribute by mid-season.
If these guys are as good as advertised I bet we do see at least one of them contributing in the next two weeks and a legit part of the defense by year end.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:04 AM ^
This article is a giant nothing burger. Harbaugh's comments in context were very coachspeak. Look at the snaps - Mazi hasn't sniffed the field even in garbage time and Hinton hasn't played many meaningful snaps, all while Jeter was limited/out, Dwumfour was limited/out and the depth has been thin.
I'm not saying they can't or won't contribute later in this year as freshman improve and learn, but based on past seasons it doesn't look even particularly likely that they won't both redshirt. It's a long season and injuries at a thin position could change the landscape but it seems unlikley we'll see them both contribute meaningfully at the position this season. Hinton seems to be the closest.
If we haven't seen them get any action against an MTSU or Rutgers, are we going to see them play heavily against PSU? an MSU team with no running game? Iowa? Ohio State? Frustrating in year five we're pining for our inexperienced true freshman. Glad we're past that on the O-Line now but it sucks we're seeing this on the other side of the ball. We were spoiled with great DTs the first few years Harbaugh was here with guys he didn't recruit. Wish they'd been able to keep that up.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:05 AM ^
I light a candle and say a little prayer every night that we get some better DT play. Sometimes I really think God is a yuckster.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:53 AM ^
This ain't on God...we're not doing a good job of keeping a steady pipeline of recruits in all key positions
October 1st, 2019 at 9:19 AM ^
Technically it's all on God.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:11 AM ^
I've also been pining to see those two get on the field. But some perspective may be in order - they are freshmen away from home for the first time in their lives, and they're going against grown men who have a few years of really good coaching on them. Regardless of how big/good/strong the high school programs they came from are, they are not as good as what they're seeing in the B1G. I'm sure technique is something they'll need more going forward than they ever did against other high school players. Good habits are what make consistently good technique, and habits take a while to form (and to break).
I want to see these guys as much as anyone else. But we should be content to let them learn proper technique and form some good habits with them, before throwing them to the wolves. When they can consistently acquit themselves against Onwenu, Ruiz, and Bredeson, they'll be ready to contribute against B1G competition without being a huge liability.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:39 AM ^
This makes sense if the options ahead of them are perfectly adequate for the schedule we face.
For instance, if Michigan could rotate Kemp, Jeter and Dwumfour on a four man front and be fine? Great, sit the freshmen.
3-3-5 works? Great, sit the freshmen.
But neither are the case. They need bodies and they've now wasted two games against teams that these guys should have been perfectly fine to play against (Rutgers+MTSU). Against Wisconsin, you have the glaring example of their true freshman DT starting and the game was over by the half, so why aren't they getting in and getting reps?
Even if Mason or Speight know the defense better or have better technique at the moment, neither is a real answer even for this season, so why not just play the freshmen who at least have potential to be the answer?
October 1st, 2019 at 10:56 AM ^
Don Brown's defense only works with a great defensive line. We've been waiting for Jeter and Dwumfour long enough. Let's work Hinton and Smith now so that they'll be ready for Ohio State later. Game experience is worth way more than practice.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:12 AM ^
I heard Mike Sainristil is close too.
#speedinspace
October 1st, 2019 at 8:26 AM ^
you mean this Mike Sainristil?
But sure, lets write an article saying Smith and Hinton should be on the field in a meaningful way shortly
October 1st, 2019 at 10:07 AM ^
Methinks the sarcasm went over your head on this one.
October 1st, 2019 at 2:10 PM ^
I was agreeing with him.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:25 AM ^
I think they are desperate to save red shirts for both Smith and Hinton. For whatever reason.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:30 AM ^
The time to get them ready was against MTSU, Army, Wisconsin and Rutgers.
Now a third of the season is gone and you're just going to go "Okay get it done against Iowa, Penn State, MSU, Notre Dame and Ohip State"?
A legitimate complaint about Harbaugu is his handling of certain aspects of the roster. It started with Bolden over Gedeon and has continued on through this.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:35 AM ^
This may shock people but I don’t think that the coaches are actively trying to lose games. They probably know that Ben Mason is bad. They’ve done literally everything they can to keep him off the field. If you want to criticize the coaches on something it should be their mind boggling recruiting decisions two years ago and their solution which was to walk down Jordan Glasgow in the a gap.
October 1st, 2019 at 8:51 AM ^
There is going to be a similar gaping hole at WR and a few other spots in the very near future.