It's no excuse...but something similar happened 3 days ago (NDSU vs. Oral Roberts postgame scuffle)

Submitted by MaizeBlueA2 on February 20th, 2022 at 5:07 PM

https://twitter.com/caydenmc/status/1494533288509284352?t=P_YW5mixYdIaVSaqh-I7dw&s=19

Paul Mills and Dave Richmond...the two who started it, are the two head coaches. Obviously two teams who don't have nearly the same profile as Michigan and Wisconsin.

Today was ugly, Juwan needs to show more restraint and have better control over his emotions (not going to comment* on Gard because I've always found him to be the kind of guy who picks fights and runs or that person does something ridiculous and then threatens to sue after getting what's coming...a male Karen, if you will), but folks clutching their pearls and acting like this is so unheard of...is, well, kind of lame and/or "convenient."  Unfortunately, stuff like this happens from time to time...and it happened LAST WEEK.

Suspend Coach Howard, Warde needs to address the team ASAP and calm the program while another coach leads it for an soon-to-be determined number of days/weeks...and let's go try to get some Ws. When Juwan comes back, I'm sure conversations will be had, as they should, it'll be a mark...but not one he can't learn from in route to realizing his full potential as the head MBB coach at the University of Michigan.

*I suppose that is somewhat of a comment.

maizerayz

February 20th, 2022 at 5:13 PM ^

Dude come on, no coach threw hands and connected with a face in that one.

Today's incident would have likely ended without a punch and just some shoving until our head coach decided to connect with someones face.

It stings something crazy and hurts a ton. But let's not make super bad comparisons.

RobM_24

February 20th, 2022 at 5:47 PM ^

It also would've ended with absolutely no altercation if Juwan just walks right by Gard and moves on -- which he tried to do -- but Gard grabbed him by the arm and stopped him from passing by. Juwan's actions were worse, but none if it happens without Gard instigating. And it wasn't a punch or even a slap. He reached over the top to garb him by the collar. Wisconsin staff had their hands on Michigan players before that happened. The commentator made it sound like he threw a right hook. If the sound was muted, I would've thought "damn, Juwan just tried to grab that dude by the neck". Instead the guy with the mic goes full "DOWN GOES FRAZIER" with it.   

 

It's a bad move by Juwan. He deserves the suspension he'll get. Wisconsin has guys who will be in trouble too. It's embarrassing for both sides. That's the end of it. Nobody deserves to be fired. Juwan has been around college and pro hoops for 30 years and has no history of stuff like this. It's a dumbass moment for a normally solid person.

 

maizerayz

February 20th, 2022 at 6:05 PM ^

This is the worst biased take ever, something I'd expect out of MSU or Penn State fans.

Go to any other neutral fanbase where the vast majority loved Juwan until today, they're all saying he has 99% of the blame. If Juwan were a wisconsin coach that did this to us we'd be laughing at anyone who said stopping someone by the arm is instigating.

What Juwan did today shows he is unfit to be head coach at Michigan. I loved the guy and am just stunned at what happened today.

RobM_24

February 20th, 2022 at 6:20 PM ^

Juwan does have most the blame. But there's some blame to go around on Wisconsin's side as well. And they'll all get their punishments. Nobody deserves to lose their damn jobs over it. The suspension and national embarrassment is plenty. And I'm sure Warde will have a zero tolerance policy moving forward. 

Stringer Bell

February 20th, 2022 at 5:14 PM ^

Rational, level-headed take.  Anyone who thinks Juwan should get fired for this really just wants him fired because they were never on board with him in the first place, or they still hate the Fab Five, or they think he should be fired because the team has been a disappointment.  He got caught up in the heat of the moment and made a mistake, it happens.  But everyone who has worked with, played with or played for Juwan raves about him.  Meanwhile Gard's players all hate him.  That says something about what likely went down with this whole thing that we won't be privy to.

jdraman

February 20th, 2022 at 5:18 PM ^

I don’t want Howard fired, and I don’t necessarily think he should be, but it is something that the AD needs to consider. The suspension will be obvious and deserved, and perhaps the AD decides that this does not warrant a firing, but it wouldn’t be right to just move on from this without reviewing Howard’s behavior.

BJNavarre

February 20th, 2022 at 5:24 PM ^

This is false. I liked the Juwan hire, and was not turning against him, but something seems to be off with him at the moment. You had the incident last game, which was just strange, and his whole handling of the end of the game led to this. You also have the Turg incident. I feel like if we leave him on as head coach, we need to accept that we have a "Bobby Knight but nice" type coach where you have to accept/make excuses for a couple incidents a year where he completely loses his cool.

bfeeavveerr

February 20th, 2022 at 5:51 PM ^

It is not so much an anger issue as it is a maturity issue. I say this in the most sincerest way , I love Juwan , grow up and teach the young men you recruit to Michigan to have your passion and love for competition. But teach them to act like men.

Creedence Tapes

February 20th, 2022 at 9:14 PM ^

What makes a man, Mr. bfeeavveerr? Is it acting like a chump when someone grabs you and doesn't give the respect you should have as a man, coach, and former professional basketball player by talking shit in your face? Coach Howard is not a chump, and he won't let people treat him with disrespect. And that is acting like a man in my book. 

ILL_Legel

February 20th, 2022 at 5:31 PM ^

What does Bobby Knight but nice mean?  Do you think Juwan treats his players the way Mr. Knight did?  Is how he treats his players the nice part?

I honestly don’t see any thing similar between the two coaches any more than a number of other coaches who get mad.

People are losing their fool minds over this.  Go check on Russia and Ukraine if you want to lose your mind.

waittilnextyear

February 20th, 2022 at 5:27 PM ^

This is an awful take. A reasonable person could've watched the festivities on court today and decided that Juwan Howard is unfit to lead the men's basketball program without having any predilection toward him getting fired before then.

Gard's players not liking him has nothing to do with it.

For the record, I am not calling for Juwan to get fired, but only that our AD do its due diligence and address the situation in an appropriate way.

snarling wolverine

February 20th, 2022 at 5:41 PM ^

Anyone who thinks Juwan should get fired for this really just wants him fired because they were never on board with him in the first place,

I've been completely on board, and I'm not arguing now that he should be fired ...  but if it happened I could understand why.  This is the second incident with another coach, which is not normal, and he's getting roasted in the media over this. 

I'm in disbelief that this has happened again.

blue in dc

February 20th, 2022 at 5:49 PM ^

Irrational, non-levelheaded take.

I was 100% on board with the hiring of Howard and I loved the fab five.   As for this season, I do think it shows that Howard has significant room to improve and while his ceiling has not changed, his floor is definitely lower than I thought, but I certainly would not be advocating for firing him for the team’s performance this year.

With regards to this particular incident, I really don’t know what I would do if I was Warde, but I suspect it would have a great deal to do with what Juwan does.   More than once, Howard has shown an inability to control his temper.    At least twice now that has involved needing to be pulled away from an altercation.   He needs to 1) Show that he clearly understands this type of behavior is unacceptable; 2): Provide a clear plan to show how he is going to make sure it doesn’t happen again, and 3) understand that he is now squarely under the microscope and he has no room for another such episode.

Absent all three of those things, I would completely understand why Ward might fire Howard.

Yeoman

February 20th, 2022 at 9:33 PM ^

I think that's a levelheaded take. The primary question for Manuel isn't the leveling of appropriate punishment, it's making sure this doesn't happen again. An employee with a hot temper is one thing; an employee who behaves inappropriately and doesn't understand that it was inappropriate is a different level of problem. When it gets to that point (and I'm not saying it has) then the employment relationship has to be questioned.

Stringer Bell

February 20th, 2022 at 6:12 PM ^

I'm sure you know that millionaire athletes and coaches have always been held to a different standard.  That's why a guy like Few can get busted for drunk driving and only get a 1 game suspension, whereas you or I would get fired for that same thing.  Why should Juwan not get that same benefit that other coaches get?

SalvatoreQuattro

February 20th, 2022 at 6:28 PM ^

I’m saying that they shouldn’t be held to a different standard. You are complaining about the double standard with Few’s lax punishment for DD(a legitimate argument) while simultaneously arguing that Howard should be held to the different standard than other university employees. Bizarre.

Few and Howard should be held to the same standards as the rest of us. Period. 

Brian Griese

February 20th, 2022 at 6:16 PM ^

I agree. I’m not proud to admit this, but I watched a stripper get fired on the spot for getting into a verbal altercation with another stripper and then charging her. A full on cat fight was only stopped by a bouncer that probably didn’t expect that would be the fight he would have needed to break up that night. 
 

Point of the matter is that if two cooks at the university engaged in this sort of behavior we saw today and the course of action taken (after careful review) was termination, then it’s very tone deaf to hold your blue collar works to a higher standard than the millionaires on the payroll. I’m not saying this doesn’t happen at work places everyday but it doesn’t make any less wrong or tone deaf in my humble opinion. 

vablue

February 20th, 2022 at 5:53 PM ^

Completely wrong, and a very lazy excuse to try and stop people from having an alternate view.  I have loved Juwan since he was a player and thought he was a great hire for Michigan.  What he did today is inexcusable for a Michigan coach.  He clearly said something to the WI coach that got a response from the coach.  Then, after being separated, went out of his way to hit an assistant coach.  He started this and he finished it with a punch.  He put his team in harms way.  None of this is anyone’s fault but his own.  
you can say it was a bush league timeout, but Michigan was still pressing.  If you have your players going full on with 15 seconds left, you can’t expect the other team to lay down.  This is not Michigan. We don’t get to only say we have a higher standard when it is convenient.

RobM_24

February 20th, 2022 at 5:56 PM ^

Exactly. There are a billion comments about how Harbaugh needs to get his fire back and blah blah. Everyone wants the Harbaugh who was screaming and yelling and backslapping Jim Schwartz. Harbaugh matures and cools his demeanor and the fanbase thinks he's lost his passion. Juwan has all the intensity in the world, but he's out of control and unacceptable now that he's had exactly one fuck up. Maybe give the guy a chance to redeem himself and get better after he serves his punishment. 

 

Nothing Special

February 20th, 2022 at 5:59 PM ^

I think there can be rational, level-headed arguments for Juwan to be fired as well. That being said, I don't think this should end in him getting canned. He has had enough run-ins now that a pattern is emerging, but nothing has been Malice at the Palace level bad. He didn't throw a punch, but he definitely made forceful contact to the assistant's face while in the hand shake line of all places. Again, once everything cools off, I can see this being a suspension for a month/rest of the season, but firing him seems a bit harsh here. 

I think his suspension should at least be longer than whatever Diabate gets. Juwan put that guy in a bad spot and we know a hard nose guy like Diabate isn't just going to back down from anyone. 

UMinSF

February 20th, 2022 at 6:52 PM ^

Well, they're calling this "Malice in Madison" already. 

Howard's strike wasn't all that violent, but it resulted in a very ugly brawl and more violent punches thrown. 

Those punches would not have been thrown were it not for Howard's. Like it or not (I sure don't), but Howard significantly escalated the situation, and threw the first blow. Everything preceding his slap/grab/punch was at worst jostling.

Brian Griese

February 20th, 2022 at 6:21 PM ^

Personally, I think you’re conflating the word “want” with “should”/“would”. If you swing at someone at whatever line of work you’re in, would you “want” to be fired? “Should” you be fired? “Would” you be fired? 
 

I don’t know what the correction response is for today’s action is (I personally think it’s an apology, counseling and a suspension) but I totally get it if he’s terminated. 

MeanJoe07

February 20th, 2022 at 5:19 PM ^

Guys. I'm outraged. He's embarrassed the university. I'm a good person and there's no excuse EVER to hit another man. I can't think of any reason EVER why anyone would allow their hand to graze another man's head. I'm a good person and it's just unacceptable. He should be fired for not being a good person like me and tarnishing the perfect legacy of Michigan basketball. Everyone should feel this way and demand the same before all the details come out otherwise you're not a good person. I love a hard foul, a hard tackle, or hockey, and enjoyed violence in sports, but a coach grazing another man's face in a heated moment is just going too far. Especially when that man grew up sleeping in a drawer as baby and surviving on the South side of Chicago by standing up for himself.  Fire him immediately because I didn't like what I saw while my fat ass was sitting on the couch watching the game. My self righteous pontificating is always correct! Fire him!