How do you rate the UM recruiting sites (Rivals/247/On3)?

Submitted by TK on January 18th, 2023 at 11:54 AM

Of course this is the best UM fan site, but I’m sure many of us are part of other boards so I’m curious how you rate them in terms of coverage/news. 
Rivals has Josh Henschke I believe, 247 has Sam Webb, and On3/Fort has Chris Balas. Personally I like Chris Balas. His info seems legit and he seems to be a little more objective than Sam who tends to always paint a rosy picture of the athletic dept. What are your thoughts?

Real Tackles Wear 77

January 18th, 2023 at 12:01 PM ^

IMO, Balas' track record is not great with recruiting or program inside info. He has been wrong too many times to be considered a real 'insider' though I'm sure he does have some sources on the periphery of the AD. Agree that Sam Webb does sometimes feel overly optimistic, this could be the outcome of trying to maintain his relationships with sources, but he's virtually always right when he speaks definitively about something and his team has broken a lot of news.

Moleskyn

January 18th, 2023 at 1:06 PM ^

I don't think it's a difference in the quality of sources. I think Balas is as well-sourced as Webb. To me, it comes down more to philosophy: Balas is willing to divulge more of what he hears, on a more frequent basis. So you see more of the ups and downs and twists and turns in a story. Sam doesn't post as frequently, but when he does, he reports on things that are more solid. 

That doesn't mean Balas isn't plugged in or that he's hearing bad info. He moreso reports things as they evolve, which means thing change in fluid situations. 

NowTameInThe603

January 18th, 2023 at 10:44 PM ^

Balas was right about Gattis. Sam disputed it and Seth basically shit on him on the home page. 
 

I have been a 247 member for years. Did the $1 trial when ON3 started.

The rhetoric about the team on ON3 on this site and 247 is unfair imo.

247 - News 

ON3 - Discussion 

I think you can enjoy both. But I notice that the mud always gets flung at Balas and crew.

 

 

Blake Forum

January 18th, 2023 at 12:03 PM ^

247 seems to have the best overall crew and content, tho I acknowledge that Sam can be overly positive about Michigan athletics in general. Partly as a result of that, however, it's rare for 247 to jump the gun. They don't tend to report something unless it's firmly grounded, which doesn't always seem to be the case with the other sites

Jkidd49

January 18th, 2023 at 12:04 PM ^

If you want to hear exactly what the program wants you to know and nothing more then listen to Sam. 

Terms of rankings of players I tend to give 247 more weight than the other two sites.

91wolverine

January 18th, 2023 at 12:06 PM ^

Eh I think Josh is probably more accurate than the other two. Sam just says whatever the program wants him to say. It’s been noted by numerous recruiting experts that Harbor is mainly down to Oregon and South Carolina and just today Sam is saying how Oregon has to catch up to SC and Michigan. Him/the program want us to believe there’s a real good chance when there likely isn’t. Even with the “Jim Harbaugh never said he would chase the NFL anymore” as if that’s a cover for Jim playing the nfl angle again bc he’s not “chasing”. It’s all the same shit sam. Anyways I digress. 

PBR

January 18th, 2023 at 12:11 PM ^

Sam Webb parrots the party line is certainly the most common opinion around here. But last week Sam went on and on about the negative impact of the uncertainty regarding Harbaugh's return. Those statements did not seem calculated to win favor with the head coach, although I suppose he could be echoing others on staff (from whom he actually gains his "insider" status) who are encountered difficulties with recruits. 

mgeoffriau

January 18th, 2023 at 12:18 PM ^

I get the feeling that when Sam says, "Michigan is still in it for [player]", folks are reading into it a wink, wink and an elbow nudge, when in fact all Sam is saying is that Michigan still has a chance.

MDot

January 18th, 2023 at 12:20 PM ^

247 clearly is the best overall recruiting product at this point. They bought Scout and now it almost feel like they have a monopoly on that industry. Rivals has become an afterthought in both football and basketball. Mike Ferrel and Eric Bossi have both moved on from them. 

chadman127

January 18th, 2023 at 12:21 PM ^

Message boards are better on The Fort.  Recruiting rankings are better on 247. 

Both sites give a fair bit of recruiting updates/program info.

Overall I like The Fort better and use 247 to look up players, etc.

I don't use Rivals at all anymore.

MAN-AT-ARMS

January 18th, 2023 at 12:28 PM ^

I can’t tell you how many times I heard Chris Balas on the Huge Show say one thing, only to have the exact opposite happen a few hours later. He has no inside sources and just reads the tea leaves. 

Suavdaddy

January 18th, 2023 at 4:19 PM ^

Sam towing the party line on the air and tip toeing generally - that's smart.  Over time it is him, Dotman and a few others who you learn to listen to and get a good overall picture.  If Sam is talking about a recruit - pay attention.  If you haven't heard him mentioned, very very likely no chance.  Slamming him for getting things wrong or 18 years changing their minds is ridiculous.  He is very connected and most importantly does not make statements or predictions until he has done his homework with multiple sources.  True pro.

The Fort - biggest message board and loads of crap to wade through as a result.  Capitol of hot takes. Information is meh.  But way better than Balas.  Went back to it after having dropped for a few years and was not impressed and dropped again.

Balas - throws garbage at the wall.  Terrible track record. 

BlueMeAway

January 18th, 2023 at 12:38 PM ^

ON3’s EJ Holland is the best when it comes to evaluating recruits and knowing what the players think of Michigan. He goes to the high school games and interviews the players. Some think he can be prickly, but he gives the raw truth. Very rarely wrong regarding his observation. Sometimes the homer in me would like him to turn the intensity down a bit, but he’s good at what he does.

NeverPunt

January 18th, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^

Look save yourself the time and hassle of following recruiting sites. Any actual breaking news ends up on this board very quickly. Any actual commits are posted on this board very quickly. You know what’s not posted here? Endless speculation about teenagers whims, rumored silent commits who are bound to decommit, and all the other stuff that fills those boards. Nothing against all those sites, but if it’s actually worth knowing, it will be here a few minutes after it breaks. Save your pennies 

Seth

January 18th, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^

First, ratings are not (good/bad/worst) they're Great/Also Great/Great Too. Michigan is extremely lucky to have the depth of coverage we have. I subscribe to and recommend them all. Also I'm just talking about the headliners, not to denigrate the people who work for them, but because this isn't really about the reporters but the insiders.

1. 247. Sam Webb is the #1 insider and has been for 30 years, because he's the program's person of choice to share information, and because he's too good at getting the information anyway for them to ever give the job to someone else. That does mean he leans well into pro-program. Well worth it. Having both him AND Steve Lorenz is unfair. Steve has a better finger on what's going on than anybody, is the most intelligent person on the beat, and is succinct. They also have Brice Marich for the dirty work, who is far more useful (and likeable) than most people who end up in that position.

Nationally, they're the most accurate of the sites that do ratings, and by far the most useful. I appreciate their regional approach (adopted from Scout) because each regional expert knows his territory well, has a strong basis of comparison to go with his history, and none of them are so tied to specific schools like you get with state- and local-based scouting. It does create some wait for one of them to get around to an eval though.

2. On3. EJ Holland was a 5-star recruit for this biz. He is probably one of the most deeply embedded guys in the industry because he comes from the 7v7 circuit that produces a lot of talent. He's also oriented to high school, not college, so the high schoolers themselves feel like he's on their side not Michigan's. Kids and coaches give the same quotes to every outlet; I often find myself using the ones Holland gets because there's always a little bit more in there. He's also important for scouting because he's getting thoughts from other players on guys we're interested in, and there's no better way to know how good a guy is than going against him yourself.

Balas is a bulldog. He has good sources and by weight gets the MOST insider info and more quickly, but the cost to that is sometimes he doesn't have some important context yet. You have to do more yourself to interpret what it means, because that's not Balas's strong suit. YMMV on the delivery because Balas lets you know stuff quickly and likes his drama. If you want to know something's up the night before, Balas is your guy. If you would rather not worry until lunch the next day when there's enough information to know the actual shape of what's up, you can do without. I can deal, Brian can't.

Nationally they're the new kids so they're hard to judge--really you have to comp them directly to 247 since that's the model they're copying. They have a good interface but are still pretty weak on scouting. The story there is they were founded by the same guy who founded Rivals and 247, but this time 247 was better at holding onto their most important scouting staff, so On3 has been leaning hard on the couple guys they do have. They are also more willing to hear out their staff so they make up some ground on 247 on reactivity, but that information can also be biased, like a pollster who averages lots of bad polls, whereas 247 is the pollster who conducts his own, excellent polls that are all held to the same standard, but not often enough to capture recent changes. This becomes a big feather in On3's cap when things are fluid, such as when fall video is just coming in. With 247 you get that info, but you have to dig it out of the insiders' articles.

One more big benefit to On3 over 247: They don't tag every damn article when a player is scheduling a visit, thinking of scheduling a visit, or naming schools he'd like to visit, so trying to do an information sweep on their site is SO MUCH EASIER than 247. Downside: you might miss stuff from insiders.

The NIL valuation thing is a gimmick to attract the players; no readers actually pay attention to it.

3. Rivals. Henschke is a Sam Webb acolyte and had to do a lot of the news stuff when Sam did insider stuff, so that's where Josh really stands out from the competition. He's been all over the Weiss story, for example, and was also #1 on the Mazi Smith one, because Josh has a stronger background in investigative journalism. 

The other major strength of M&BR is they're doing their own site-specific scouting of recruits. This used to be more common but as the industry streamlined this got cut. You'll note a generation of players whose recruiting profiles have only Magnus talking about what's on his tape until the section we do it. The MBR staff is very new at this so those evals are not very accurate yet, and you have to watch out for mistakes that every young scout makes like grading pad level on plays that made it in the reel for pancakes. But having *somebody* trying is way better than we've had.

Nationally Rivals has been gutted twice by their founder, and that's been a bad combination with their method of proprietary camps because more guys are skipping them and ending up with low 3-stars that only look bad for Rivals. Gorney and Friedman are spread way too thin right now, and because of it a lot of evals don't even get published, or they have someone dictating them.

4. ESPN. TomVH is a friend and this place alumni, and when he's on the job he's top-notch. Also they have Bill Connelly now, so that's worth the price of admission alone. Also you can combine your sub with Disney.

They don't do insider info.

Their recruiting coverage is just there to be there at this point. They don't put much effort into it, and they laughably overrate SEC prospects to pump up their own brand. I've taken to downgrading their input in my composite. They don't write up their evaluations so you have no idea why they think what they think. In many cases I think they're just copying the other sites' work, but occasionally they do look at a guy and offer a different opinion. Since they won't say what that opinion is, it's hard to judge it.

skegemogpoint

January 18th, 2023 at 1:37 PM ^

this is well done, Seth. Personally I prefer Balas though I enjoy the others very much. Agree wholeheartedly on Holland and Lorenz. Sam Webb is just way too full of himself for my taste.  He's a wannabe attorney chok' full of disclaimers, caveats and hedges. Got no regard for people who put in a crystal ball - keep it in place for 6 months - and then just prior to a commitment, flip their crystal ball and claim Victory(!). He's done it time and again. So disingenuous.

Qmatic

January 18th, 2023 at 2:04 PM ^

Great post Seth!

On recent “Hello” posts I have noticed you now have “MGoBlog Composite Rankings” where you rate the recruit all-time (since 1990) and at their position. Is there a place where you have all of this information on the site? Would make for some good off-season reading 

Seth

January 18th, 2023 at 3:08 PM ^

I keep the spreadsheet updated and linked on the Depth Chart by Class. Two tabs to pay attention to:

Rosters, Starts, Stars, and Retention

  • Name/number/position/depth chart spot
  • Ht (in inches)/Weight/Weight as a recruit
  • Career starts & games played
  • Eligibility: Year redshirted, current eligibility/years spent in program, what year their eligibility ended, last year they were on the roster, yrs left if they left early.
  • NFL draft/UFA
  • State they're from (if IMG their original state)
  • Scholarship situation: Transfer, Walk-on, etc.
  • Composite star rating, and saner grouping (we have 3.5*s to differentiate), Breakdown by site so you can see the components
  • Early enrollee?
  • Career summary: Did they transfer, did they graduate, what reason?
  • Position rank as a recruit among all the recruits in the database.

Michigan Recruiting Comps

  • All the specific rankings, sorted by position.

For example, see if you can guess which 5 QBs these are:

 

Sonny

January 18th, 2023 at 1:03 PM ^

Its nice having three outlets to bounce around at.  My issue with TMI is they censor anything against party line or questioning of Sam.  I like Steve and Zach's podcasts though.