December 5th, 2019 at 5:31 PM ^
Browns biggest issue is a lack of pass rush from the DTs.
Against OSU? No pass rush up the middle; allowing their QB to break pass contain without a hand in their face; mismatches or breakdowns in coverage; oh, and poor run fills or angles by LBs and Safeties. But I agree, the lack of pressure at the bottom of the pocket by the DTs has allowed the Bukeye QBs to pick Michigan's defenses apart.
December 5th, 2019 at 6:30 PM ^
In the last few days I've seen a lot of talk about how in '16 and '17 the better DTs for UM made a difference. No doubt they did help, but OSU's offense was a bit different with Barrett. Barrett wasn't nearly as good throwing the ball as Haskins or Fields. OSU's offense the last couple years has morphed from a run heavy offense with the QB and RB to a much more balanced offense with a much better passing attack.
Go back and watch the 2017 OSU game. UM's defense was doing a pretty good job while Barrett was the QB. When Barrett got hurt though, in came Haskins and the OSU offense started carving up the UM defense with the pass.
December 5th, 2019 at 6:38 PM ^
Part of our reason for success in 16 and 17 was that JT Barrett was an average passer at best. I don't think JT puts 60 on us last year or 50 this year. So let's not forget that their QB play has improved dramatically.
December 6th, 2019 at 1:34 PM ^
It was the same under Ron English. OSU beat us up the middle. Charles Woodson isn't walking through that door.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:25 PM ^
So far the answer is no. We do not have elite QB play
Maybe next year will be different, but I got to think that if we had an elite QB on our roster they would have started this year. I don't think a kid in his RS JR year will all of a sudden go from backup to elite. But I'd love to be proven wrong.
December 5th, 2019 at 10:14 PM ^
If 247 is correct, C.J. Stroud is coming on an OV this weekend. He is a MUST get. Perfect fit for Gattis’ offense and could be the starter week 1. We have to get a commitment from him this weekend if he’s visiting. He is by far the most important recruit for 2020.
December 6th, 2019 at 5:59 AM ^
OTOH Michigan has at times shown the propensity to start the older guy over the younger even though the younger guy is more talented. There's a wee bit of hope DCaf may be close to as good as Shea...but Shea was really dealing the back half of the season. Hard to imagine we're secretly hiding a similar guy on the bench
December 5th, 2019 at 4:46 PM ^
This. Thread over.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:08 PM ^
There was an article in the WSJ yesterday which credits LSU's weight room techniques. Long story short, some MIT kids made a device that measures the speed at which players are moving weights. So you count not only the weight and reps, but also the speed at which the reps are knocked out.
Color me skeptical, sounds like EEE BARWIS all over again. Here's a short quote though and a link to the article, but its sort of paywalled:
Three weeks after Perch installed units on each of the 22 weight racks at LSU’s indoor football facility on Oct. 1, Tigers coach Ed Orgeron said he noticed differences in his team’s performance on the field.
“I think our guys are stronger and quicker and faster,” he said in late October. “I think as the season goes on, there’s not as many injuries this year as there were in years’ past and that’s because of our strength and conditioning.”
December 5th, 2019 at 4:38 PM ^
now imagine orgreon's quote, but in a cajun voice and while he's gargling a bull frog.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:39 PM ^
Michigan's weight room has this too
December 5th, 2019 at 5:25 PM ^
This is not new. These have been around for decades. Tendos. You can buy them online.
December 5th, 2019 at 5:25 PM ^
Cover story: all this techno-wizbangery using jargon and factoids no one really understands.
Real story: better use of steroids.
December 6th, 2019 at 1:11 AM ^
What was that? They installed IV bags with steroids in them right on the weight racks? And Orgeron saw a difference in only three weeks? Amazing!
December 5th, 2019 at 4:09 PM ^
I'm curious to see how they do after Burrow moves on. Orgeron's career record is 53-36, and that's including 12-0 this season.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:20 PM ^
This is important. The board keeps doing this, whether it be with Orgeron or Dabo Swinney or whoever.
"Jim Harbaugh has been okay but not excellent after five years! I wish he was better. Why can't he be like this other coach, who was also okay but not great for five years, but won a national championship in his seventh year? I like that coach better."
December 5th, 2019 at 7:16 PM ^
If Harbaugh came here after San Diego or maybe even Stanford, people would be more patient with him. But he came here way more credentialed than Orgeron or Swinney. Those guys don't have a Super Bowl and three conference Championship Games (1 as a player) on their resume. So his record is not matching the expectations that his previous success set for him.
December 5th, 2019 at 7:48 PM ^
People are impatient because we haven't beaten OSU regularly, or really at all, this millennium. Most of those losses were by the 3 previous coaches.
December 5th, 2019 at 8:53 PM ^
The losses break down:
Carr, 6 in 8 years
Harbaugh, 5 in 5 years
RR: 3 in 3 years
Hoke: 3 in 4 years
December 5th, 2019 at 4:38 PM ^
Orgeron was 10-25 at Ole Miss, which hasn't won a conference championship since segregation, and he's 42-11 since then. Also, Joe Burrow wasn't exactly being bandied around as the second coming in August. We can probably stop waiting on him to turn into Brady Hoke now.
December 5th, 2019 at 5:19 PM ^
Ole Miss may never win another SEC title but 10-25 is still bad.
42-11 sounds awesome but he hasn't won at that clip the whole time. He was 9-4 and 10-3 the last two years, which is OK but no better than his predecessor. Les took LSU to the national title game twice.
I'm not saying this to knock the guy. I think it's cool that an actual Cajun coaches LSU. Just not sure what to make of him.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:10 PM ^
Coach O is the man. So was bill brasky
December 5th, 2019 at 4:12 PM ^
I asked Ed Orgeron that very question, but I didn't understand a word of his response.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:25 PM ^
geaux tigahs
December 5th, 2019 at 4:18 PM ^
It's amazing what you can do with a head coach who focuses on recruiting and motivation and hires elite assistants to manage the actual X's and O's.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:33 PM ^
Better DC, much better QB.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:38 PM ^
He finally realized your offense needs to score 40 to compete with the big boys. He's still trying to fight against it with all the FGs and punting in plus territory but it seems like Harbaugh has figured it out too. Let's see what happens next year.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:38 PM ^
Joe Burrow
December 5th, 2019 at 4:39 PM ^
It's sobering to look at the list of the top HS recruits in the country and see how many of them come from below the Mason Dixon line or the Pacific coast. And then look to see how many come from our immediate geographic region.
It's a demographic disadvantage that Bo didn't have to contend with, at least until he played USC in the Rose Bowl.
December 6th, 2019 at 6:04 AM ^
Michigan football would be a looootttt better if the same talent level that was in the Bible belt was also in the rust belt
December 5th, 2019 at 4:42 PM ^
LSU never had a QB able to beat Bama most of the time - but Lester got it done once at least.
The 2007 LSU Tigers football team, coached by Les Miles, won the Southeastern Conference championship and the national championship with a 12–2 record. The LSU Tigers took on the top ranked Ohio State Buckeyes in the 2008 BCS National Championship Game defeating them 38–24.
December 5th, 2019 at 8:50 PM ^
And instead of hiring that guy, who wanted to coach at Michigan and beat OSU's ass every year just for fun, we decided to punch ourselves in the balls for the next 7 years.
December 5th, 2019 at 10:20 PM ^
Thank you Lloyd Carr....
December 6th, 2019 at 10:35 AM ^
What's worse is I think that that decision to keep stepping on our dick with golf shoes is still effecting us to some extent; because while we were cratering OSU was flying even higher and that I believe impacted our status with recruits.
I don't know if LSU would have taken us to National Championship heights. But damn I wish we would have found out.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:43 PM ^
The difference is their new OC - Joe Brady - who revised LSU this year with a spread offense. Burrow was good last year but has really blown up in Brady's system. He's a finalist for the Broyles Award (nation's top assistant coach) and will probably win it. Many times it's not about the player but more so about the system they play in - Hurts at OK, Burrow at LSU, and Fields at OSU. All were beat out at their former schools but those 3 will probably be in NY for the Heisman.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:53 PM ^
Worth noting that despite all of the advantages that LSU has mentioned in this thread, it still took a Bama team with three freshmen starting on defense and an injury to the star quarterback to pull out a narrow win over their arch-rival.
Maybe we'll get some similar fortune, one of these days...
December 5th, 2019 at 6:08 PM ^
This was a down year for Bama - by their standards (2 losses - wow) - but anyone that thinks they're going to take a deep slide is just fooling themselves. Bama. Georgia, OSU and Clemson just have too much talent to take a deep nosedive. LSU, however, is close to entering that group. But without even looking / knowing what their lineups look like next year, I'd take Bama again against everyone else in the SEC. Just have a feeling LSU better enjoy this year - they might not see another like this for a long time
December 5th, 2019 at 7:01 PM ^
Yeah, exactly. I actually like LSU, and it's easy to point to them as evidence of great coaching and what can be done in a turnaround in terms of beating a rival after not having done it in ages, but it looks more like a blip than the start of a sustained success versus the rival. And, compared to LSU, Michigan is playing with a hand tied behind its back as it tries to close the recruiting gap with its rival.
December 5th, 2019 at 7:21 PM ^
Orgeron is doing something that is helping greatly. He's keeping the talent home. LSU was losing top in-state kids to Alabama (remember Landon Collins and his mama). Coach O, an alum, was able sell the home state school to keep those kids away from Alabama. Harbaugh has been able to that to an extent against Sparty, but has a harder fight on his hands to keep OSU out of Cass Tech and King in Detroit.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:54 PM ^
LSU has always had the O-line, D-line, secondary, and skill position players to be level with Bama. The games were always close until Saban realized he needed to upgrade his offensive philosophy to modern college football - which started with his hiring of Lane Kiffen.
LSU was always a QB and a coherent offensive scheme away from competing at Bama level, but the gap widened when Saban upgraded his offense.
Cajun Hoke hired the right OC and Burrow turned out to be a perfect fit to run the offense and is a top 10 draft pick. They never had the recruiting gaps at O-line or D-line or in the secondary that we have suffered.
Harbaugh's decision to upgrade the offense to "speed in space" looked great by the end of the year and was probably the best decision for the program. It's almost impossible to win games 13-7 these days unless you are playing Iowa, but defensive deficiencies become exposed against elite modern offenses, even for the best defenses in CFB - look at Bama, OSU the past 5 years. There's always a game they get 40 hung on them, often by some nobody team like Purdue, it happens.
This year Georgia seems to have the most complete defense (especially in not giving up the big plays), so it will be really interesting to see the LSU - UGA game.
CFB, like all sports, is a cycle, and in this era the offenses are out executing and out scheming the defenses. At some point I'd expect things to revert more to the mean as defenses scheme and recruit to stop these explosive offenses.
All that said, LSU was just a QB and scheme away from being elite. They were Bama lite. We, on the other hand, seem to have a fully stacked team just 1 out of every 4 or 5 years, and have holes elsewhere otherwise, not to mention our lack of a solid QB and modern offensive scheme until this year.
Right now, for example, we have big worries at DT and CB next year. Hopefully Hinton and Smith take huge steps forward and Ambry stays and another CB steps up.
December 5th, 2019 at 8:40 PM ^
You pointed out DTs and I agree that we need to fix it and in a hurry. If you look at all of the Bama teams that won championships, the one common factor on all of those teams was big, run stopping DTs. Same with Clemson last year. Heck their whole DL is now playing in the NFL. Those teams made you one dimensional with the passing attack and you're just not going to beat a great team with just passing for the most part - especially inside the red zone. Throwing for 300+ yards with very little rushing attack is usually a recipe for disaster.
December 5th, 2019 at 8:56 PM ^
Yep. I don't know how we got stuck in this hole with the DL, but we really have to stop digging. Even if the two freshmen are great, we have jack shit for depth behind them. And none in this class.
We need to hit the portal or take a flier on a 300 pounder from a corn state.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:55 PM ^
So much recency bias on this board.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:55 PM ^
LSU has been top five in talent for a long time. They hired a guy who really brought some innovation to the offense. They got a lucky influx of QB talent.
Michigan has 2 of those 3 things, and that’s kind of the whole deal.
December 5th, 2019 at 4:57 PM ^
ESSSSS...…..EEEEEEEE...….SEEEEEE SPEED
December 5th, 2019 at 5:01 PM ^
Orgeron is Hoke without loyalty to a fault. Hoke honestly wouldn't have been that bad in my opinion if he wasn't so reliant on "his guys" to fill out his staff. And I include his "loyalty" to MANBALL TUFFNESS (yes I know that's not how you spell it, its a joke). But he was a great recruiter, the kids and coaches apparently loved him and he got the players to play before it was clear he was on his way out.
December 5th, 2019 at 5:04 PM ^
They hired joe Brady
December 5th, 2019 at 5:07 PM ^
Also, funny tidbit about LSU's recruiting since so many have brought it up. Here are the 247 composite rankings for the last 4 complete classes...
2019: LSU 5 (UM 8)
2018: LSU 15 (!) (UM 22 (!))
2017: LSU 7 (UM 5)
2016: LSU 2 (UM 8)
This obviously doesn't take transfers into consideration and considering both programs have benefitted from those recently (Burrow and Patterson) that's a significant variable but it I thought it was interesting none-the-less.
December 5th, 2019 at 5:20 PM ^
It's about having balanced classes. UM has recruited well but we always seem to have holes at certain positions. This year it was our DT's, other years we were missing an offensive tackle or another position. Putting the QB position aside, as that's really another conversation and the most important position on the field, We only seem fully stacked once every 4 or 5 years, whereas teams like Bama, OSU, Clemson, LSU, Georgia seem to have holes in their roster maybe once every 3 or 4 years.
December 5th, 2019 at 5:32 PM ^
And the most galling point of all, there is always an itty-bitty crack in an otherwise top-5 defense that OSU can use to score at will. In 2015 and 2019 it was weak DTs who got trampled by OSU's running game. In 2018, it was a slow nickle corner in a man to man coverage scheme against OSU's number three receiver who could still run a 4.3 forty. It's always effing something, and nothing ever goes wrong for...those people in Columbus.