Greatest athlete of all time (US)
So ESPN did a "Top (US) Athletes of the 20th Century (ESPN, 1999)" ....
https://www.topendsports.com/world/lists/greatest-all-time/athletes-esp…
And the top 5 were ...
1 Michael Jordan basketball
2 Babe Ruth baseball
3 Muhammad Ali boxing
4 Jim Brown American football
5 Wayne Gretzky ice hockey
Now, i can argue up and down a few things - like Ali and Brown not belonging there. Like Gretzky being higher, like no Michael Phelps or Jesse Owens etc..
But one thing i don't think is subjective, how in the hell is Secretariat not only not in the top 5, but not number one on any list?
Im curious - what would everyones top 3 be? And what are your thoughts on Secretariat? Is he not high or on top of lists because, he is a horse?
Mine would be ...
1) Secretariat
2) Wayne Gretzky
3) Michael Phelps
Watch the 30 - 30! Check and mate on Bo. Or the Nike commercial.
Um... Gretzky isn’t from the US though. The article doesn’t say anything about it being US athletes either, so your post is misleading.
And with your list, animals aren’t really considered “athletes.” And Phelps isn’t 20th century.
Nor is he a great 'athlete.' He was undersized, not the greatest shooter, not the greatest skater, definitely not a hitter at all... he really was underwhelming with his physical attributes but his brain worked differently than anyone else's ever has in the sport of hockey and he was able to slow the game down to ridiculous speeds and anticipate what no one else could fathom. Easy far and away the greatest hockey player of all time, just not a great 'athlete."
But he was. Being a great athlete isn’t the same as being the most athletic. And Gretzky’s intelligence and anticipation are skills that made him a great athlete. So great that he was able to overcome his lack of physical attributes.
Athlete and athletic aren’t the same thing. Being athletic is something that certainly helps in becoming a great athlete. But certainly, as is the case with Gretzky, doesn’t determine how great of an athlete someone is.
Spot on Jonny. Amazes me how people just look at 'speed/muscle' as great athlete.
There is such a mental aspect that goes into excelling as an athlete, especially at the pro level. Some players, like Kobe for example, have great athletic ability but it was their mentality that really set them apart from others. Intelligence, anticipation and all of that can be just as critical as speed/strength. And it’s crazy how often that gets overlooked
You can make the case that the mental aspect is THE difference between the good and great athletes. The muscle between the ears contributes mightily!
Being a great athlete isn’t the same as being the most athletic.
Case in point: Babe Ruth
Case and point TOM FREAKING BRADY! No dual threat, no cannon arm, just accurate, smarter than everyone else and laser focused on crushing the other team's soul until the moment the last whistle blows.
The Babe was highly athletic. He suffers because 95 percent of the footage of him is from his famous 1927 season (which was probably only his 4th best season) and later, when he was much heavier. Look at photos and film from say 1920-1921. He was even legging out triples. Plus he was the 2nd or 3rd best left-handed pitcher in the league when he was a full time pitcher. He held the World Series consecutive scoreless innings record all the way into the 1960s.
The playing in a segregated era is a fair point to make, but also the talent was not as watered down. Far fewer teams and in those days baseball got nearly all of the best athletes (other than Black athletes), because that's where the money and prestige was. By the way the Babe's racial heritage was itself a subject of much speculation when he played with some believing that he did have some black ancestry. This hasn't been proven but neither has it been completely refuted.
Wilt also suffers to a lesser degree because there is so much less footage of him in his younger years. He was incredibly athletic as well as strong.
Here's Wayne smoking Sugar Ray Leonard, Bjorn Borg and Pele in a 100m sprint: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0S6tJkEKH8
Gretzky is now 60
Borg 64
Leonard 65 - didn't crouch, started standing up.
Pele 80 - 20 years older than Gretzky
Only surprise is how slow Borg was - though he had a poor start and was gaining toward the end.
1. Jordan Love
2. Aaron Rodgers
3a. Brett Favre
3b. Bart Starr
I smell cheese.
Get off your "high horse", OP. (edit: While Secretariat was most likely the greatest racehorse of all time, I've always felt adding critters to such lists that are published from time to time is a bit click-baity on the part of those publications.)
And yes, Ali definitely belongs on there. Far more athletic than any other boxer of his era.
------------------
ps: here's your link,
https://www.topendsports.com/world/lists/greatest-all-time/athletes-espn-century.htm
...enhanced for better clickability.
Michael Phelps dominating a niche sport gets a “meh” from me on a list of athletes from sports that attract the talent nation-wide.
Athlete, IMO, also implies athleticism over talent in the sport. Jerry Rice is the GOAT but he doesn’t belong above Megatron or Moss on a list of best athletes. All that to say that Gretzky belongs far below Jordan on this list.
An athlete, by definition, is someone proficient in a sport or athletic event. It doesn’t have anything to do with athleticism and quite literally means “talent in the sport.”
You’re confusing “best athlete” and “most athletic”
That's one definition. Another is that an athlete is "a person who is trained or skilled in exercises, sports, or games requiring physical strength, agility, or stamina."
Bottom line is it's not that clear-cut. Debate exists: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/48497-the-great-debate-what-defines-the-athlete
And Jerry Rice is a person who was the most skilled in a sport requiring physical strength, agility or stamina. Your definition still doesn’t say a person with the most strength, agility or stamina. It says Someone skilled/trained in sports that require those traits. So it’s the same definition I gave, just worded differently.
If someone asks for you for your greatest NFL player of all time, and someone else asks for your greatest NFL athlete of all time, you're really choosing Tom Brady both times?
He did juke Ray Lewis that one time -- mostly because Lewis was shocked he even dared...
Yes. Because if they wanted to know who the most athletic person was, they’d ask who the most athletic person was. Why is this so difficult for you? Athletic does not mean the same thing as athlete.
Michael Phelps dominating a niche sport gets a “meh” from me
Spoken like someone who has never swam
Which would speak for the overwhelmingly vast majority of American athletes, which is his point.
I’m a huge hockey fan. If there’s one sport I enjoy more than college football it’s the NHL. And the US is churning out some great athletes in hockey right now. But I’m also well aware that it’s a sport that has a very limited talent pool, typically white suburban kids. Let’s just say that if hockey was as popular and assessable as football or basketball, the landscape of US hockey would look a lot different.
Similarly but not directly towards you, I hate it when I see Serena Williams get brought up in these type of conversations as well - which you often see. I struggle to understand how someone could be in the argument for greatest US athlete when at no point in time were they ever even remotely close to being the best athlete in their sport.
How was Serena not the best athlete in her sport, especially when she was in her early or mid 20's? She was more powerful, had great reach, and could close the net. She combined that with one of the best service motions in tennis. It is insane how repeatable it is for her at that power level. Her closest competitor in pretty much all of those categories was her older sister.
Her closest non-related competition for the early part of her career is one of the least "athletic"(the very basic way you're defining it) player in modern history to win multiple Grand Slams and get to #1, Martina Hingis.
This is all to say that you don't seem to understand what constitutes athleticism in tennis.
Was Serena Williams ever close to being the best tennis player on earth? No. That’s how she was never the best athlete in her sport.
Imagine if we had a flawless activity or exam to test intelligence, but we created a lower division to allow a certain segment of the population to compete against their own because they were out of their league against the actual best. Not let’s say that someone in that lower division was absolutely dominant in that lower division, but still wasn’t nearly as intelligent as that top division. Would we call that person the most intelligent person in the world?
I think one of the things that makes Phelps special is that he excelled at multiple events. For this reason, I would have to include someone like Carl Lewis or Jesse Owens on my list.
Or Jim Thorpe. He was the Bo Jackson of his era, and the gap between him and his competitors was bigger. As far as Phelps goes, swimming requires that the whole body participates, and Phelps was the best IM swimmer in the world for like 16 years. He excelled in sprints and middle distances. My list?
1 Jim Thorpe
2 Michael Phelps
3 Carl Lewis
Justin Feagin
1. Bo Jackson
2. Hulk Hogan
3. David Lee Roth
And for those questioning #3, how many of you can do this?
Hogan was not athletic. His signature move was an elbow drop. Wow. Now if you had mentioned one of the high flyers like Jimmy Superfly Snuka or Randy Macho Man Savage, I might agree with you.
Leg drop, silly, LEG DROP. Totally different.
Betcha Simone Biles can. She also probably wouldn't make that god awful screech when she did...
When you say Ali & Brown not belonging there...do you mean not on the list or on a different spot on the list? Jim Brown? who for years was considered the greatest football player ever? Or Ali who in his prime may have been the best boxer of all time?
No mention of Babe Ruth not belonging, who hit 700 home runs vs guys who couldn't top 90 mph and never played against black players? 1920 had 7 other teams in the AL, pitchers regularly throwing an entire game. Out of nearly 2500 games played, there were 1400 complete games. In 2019 there were 45 complete games..out of 4900 games.
No, Ali and Brown both definitely deserve to be on the list, i just would not have them in the top 5. And Ruth was amazing - i would personally have him above both Ali and Brown.
Was Ali even the best boxer of his era? Maybe. Ever? Not in my opinion. Same can be said for Brown. More-so with Brown.
Re: Ruth, I think you have to compare him to his peers. He once hit more homeruns than every team in the American League.
Ruth may not have looked like a great athlete, but he was an elite athlete. Could hit and pitch almost equally as well.
Compared to his peers I would agree. But his "peers" excluded some of the best players of his era. And he had FAR fewer "peers" to compete against. He only played against 8 teams more than 6 times, including the Yankees, who he faced 50 times.
It is absurd to try to evaluate animals as athletes.
A flea can jump 220 times it's own body length and 150 times it's body height. Does that make them the greatest athlete?
Are there any animals other than horses who can run a mile and a quarter in less than two minutes with a small man on their back, rubbing up against a dozen others?
Ants can carry 10-50 times their body weight, with a specific species able to carry up to 100 times their body weight. And relative to their size, travel far larger distances carrying that weight. Not to mention the predators in their environment.
More athletic than a horse?
Depends on who’s chasing me, why, and how much tequila is involved.
A cheetah can run 75 miles an hour!!!! Show me another animal that can do that!
I repeat, it is absurd to argue over which animal is the greatest athlete.
Would you rather fight 100 Michael Jordan-sized Secretariats or 100 Secretariat-sized Michael Jordans?
If Secretariat is #1, then all other race horses are #2-100.
No, because all other race horses were not head and shoulders above their competition by the margin Secretariat was in his era.
Babe Zaharias
Jim Thorpe
Jim Brown
I've watched this fifty times and I still get chills. "He is moving like a tremendous machine!" is one of the best lines I've ever heard a play-by-play announcer deliver in any sport.
A couple of well-positioned photographers took these hilarious photos of jockey Ron Turcotte turning around to see how far back Secretariat's competition was:
48 years later, Secretariat still holds the course records for the Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, and the Belmont.