Former MSU BB player kills a guy
This will probably get deleted, but I’m hoping Keith finds peace at some point in his life. I know he’s really struggled since his time at MSU and I hope he recovers from whatever ails him.. wherever that may be.
peace? he just killed a man all he is getting is 25 to life.
I hope he finds peace (along with his victims, obviously) and is rehabilitated, rather than sitting in a prison rotting away until he dies.
He's a heroin selling, rapist, old man murderer. He needs to rot in prison for all of our safety.
Okay, he can go rehabilitate and find peace at your house.
Uh I'm fine saying that if he was being arrested on drug charges, but he straight up murdered a man. I wish rest and peace to the victim and his family, and I hope Appling is off the streets for good where he's clearly a danger
But wait, he was arrested and convicted on gun charges before the drug arrest and conviction, where he was given probation. Was this a Covid conviction where guys didn't have to serve time unless they were considered dangerous?
Umm. Dude is wanted in a fatal shooting. Fuck him and his ailments.
Wasn't he also implicated in that rape accusation that tiny Tom helped him get out of?
Yes and that rape was essentially admitted to on video by Payne who committed it with Appling.
We are all special in God's eyes. We are all imbued with a pure and divine spirit. Certainly it's tragic the man lost his life, but it is also tragic Keith's life spiraled in this direction. He is in a bad, bad, place and he needs our help and prayers too. I know it's tough to think that way, but don't let societies ills harden your heart.
Needs our help, huh? That would be a no from me.
It is tough to think that way. It's a big part of the reason I could never be religious. When you've reached a point where you think it's justified to kill another person, you are what makes society ill.
He didn;t say it was justified.
Agree or disagree but do so without making stuff up. That's the most disingenuous form of debate.
Pretty sure he was referring to Appling’s state of mind & that Appling is what makes society ill, not Victors2000...
If so, then he needs to learn to not quote someone and then refer to "you" when he doesn't mean "you."
It's not hard to learn how to use pronouns properly, and learning that is vital to effective communication.
I was intentionally being vague. Justification is tricky in God's will discussions, but the implication is that free will is left only for a god to judge and therefore we must, from a philosophical sense, assume that everything happens for a reason (hence, justified).
But thanks for the lecture - one is correct if one wishes to be more specific in this case, although it would have required a rewrite to completely clarify who is doing the killing - though I think it's obvious in this case.
Since you are giving lessons in communication, who & what did he quote?
Appling does need help. Appling continues to hurt people. A prison cell is the best help he can get so he can comingle with like minded individuals until the end.
Certainly it's tragic the man lost his life,
It's tragic when a young person is cut down by incurable disease and loses his or her life. It's tragic when somebody is hit by lightning and loses their life. It's tragic when a plane goes down in terrible weather and passengers lose their lives. It's tragic when an elderly person with dementia sets their kitchen ablaze and they lose their life.
"Losing your life" is a passive phrase that implies the cause was not a willful, malevolent act of another person. When somebody is shot dead in cold blood by an asshole with a long record of being an asshole, they didn't "lose their life"—they were straight up murdered.
What does God Shammgod have to do with this?
I do agree that if he’s convicted he should be in jail and for a long, long time. But denying him the help he’d need once he gets there isn’t good for anyone.
This country has a serious mental health crisis that it for some reason refuses to collectively acknowledge, and regardless of your crimes, I do believe we need to try and help people through whatever personal demons they are facing. If nothing else, maybe it helps us notice the same trouble signs in the next individual so we can stop them before they commit a simile atrocity.
Again, not saying Appling shouldn’t be spending a majority of the rest of his life in jail, if not all of it, if he’s convicted. You don’t escape justice, but clearly he is facing something terrible within himself and I don’t think he’s beyond getting that type of help. If he’s willing to embrace it.
"This country has a serious mental health crisis that it for some reason refuses to collectively acknowledge ..."
I don't think USA culture is fully compatible with a serious approach to mental health.
There is a huge mental health crisis in this country. The problem it’s part of everything we do every single day. A lot of it is social media driven, a lot of it is kids growing up in crappy conditions to crappy parents. These kids then become crappy parents themselves.
On the other hand, it has also become acceptable to justify horrendous acts if someone has a “mental illness”. I don’t really care what your mental illness is, if you are a dangerous person and aren’t safe to be around other people, you can try and rehab in prison. It shouldn’t be a get out of jail free card. Appling had his chance, he doesn’t deserve to be out in society with mine or anyone else’s loved ones where he could take another life.
Did anybody say he should be let out of prison because he might be mentally ill?
Agreed. Appling should still have the opportunity to better himself and find some semblance of personal redemption, but it should be behind bars. The guy is clearly a danger to society right now, and I don’t know that he should ever have the opportunity to be free again. That’s for a judge and jury to decide.
But locking him up and just letting him rot alone and without help is not solving the root of the problem. It’s just putting a band aid on a broken leg.
If a mental illness crisis is driven largely by social media and crappy parents, then every country has a mental illness crisis. On the other hand, if you assume that the mental illness crisis in the US is stronger and/or unique, then those factors are irrelevant to the cause of our strong/unique problem. I personally believe it's our culture of consumption and the celebration of it.
I think the last sentence hits a note.
People tend to feel unwell when expectations aren't met. Our consumer economy benefits when expectations are constantly reset (through advertising, etc.).
And that is a problem.
Still too many people out there who think mental health is a myth or that if it is real, that you need to just “tough it out like a man.” That mindset isn’t good for anyone. It’s in fact the opposite of good. It’s detrimental to society.
True...and that drives public policy and resources away from these areas.
Mental Health issues are very complicated and take highly specialised care. But I think this pandemic could be the spark to this growing powder keg. A growing mental health crisis plus all the easily accessible guns in the US is a recipe for disaster.
I hope you’re right but color me skeptical. When it comes to the two issues you brought up, there is a very vocal segment of our leadership and it’s constituents that do not view those issues as a priority, or even anything that need to be addressed aside from making sure the other side of the aisle doesn’t get to drive policies forward.
It’s at a point where I sit there and say “I don’t know what more evidence you need to see to be convinced there’s a problem.”
It’s at a point where I sit there and say “I don’t know what more evidence you need to see to be convinced there’s a problem.”
It's not about evidence. Unfortunately, when confronted with the choice between individual gain and good (evidence based) public policy, many (most?) of our leaders will choose the former.
(Almost) no one thinks mental health issues are a myth. Justifiable concerns exist for those who worry that those explanations for behavior don't preempt accountability for actions and don't take into account the protection of all of us. Mental health issues are a significant component of the homeless population and few of our approaches to this seem to be working, so far.
Appling is a different case IMO. He was a superior athlete who felt entitled and that rules din't apply to him, because he was enabled and excused from the time his special athletic talent was recognized.
"(Almost) no one thinks mental health issues are a myth."
I'd need a measure of almost.
Here's one example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology_and_psychiatry
Behavioral health has other natural enemies. Maybe look at it this way: Who stands to benefit (to varying degrees) if someone isn't feeling quite right psychologically? What might that person do in response to their feelings? Where might they turn? What might they not do and where might they not turn if successfully treated?
Scientology? OK, Tom Cruise and John Travolta aside.
Maybe using the word myth wasn’t the best choice, but I feel pretty darn confident in saying that there is a very sizable portion of the population in this country that doesn’t take mental health seriously as a crisis, and equates it more to being weak than to having a genuine affliction.
Said people’s approach/solution to overcoming mental health problems is to tell the afflicted person to “suck it up,” or “be a man, not a wuss.”
That, to me, is just as big of a problem as seeing mental health as a myth.
I assume you are suggesting he is still haunted by Trey Burke stealing the ball from him:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0fJODw_PidM
Or maybe haunted by that time he raped a girl and Izzo covered it up.
I guess that is worse than a head coach knowing about a team doctor who molests athletes and does nothing about it.
No, there's no reason to compare, both are horrific.
What in the fuck does this have to do with the conversation at hand? It's a stupid, lazy, effort to blame shift, and it's way too common now. Stop doing that shit, please. Have an intellectually honest discussion, or just don't talk?
He's going to find peace alright. Peace in 6' x 9' x 12' jail cell for murder.
He didn't have a father in his life and this is, yet, another example of the damage that can happen when you do not have that part of parenting in your life.
I don't recall, but was Michigan a factor in his recruitment or was it pretty much all MSU from the get go?
Jails have 12’ ceilings? Why so tall?
The better to hold MSU basketball players.
It's a seller's market. No way you are going to afford 12 foot ceilings unless you are willing to move out from the city where your dollar goes further
Yes. If only he'd had a father in his life then he wouldn't have turned out to be a POS...
I think if we dig deeper, assuming we as a society actually care to do so, then we'd actually find that the problem is much more complex.
There are lots of violent offenders in this world who had a "stable" two-parent household. I'd like to think by 2021 we'd have moved on from the tired, veiled jabs at "lack of a father's strong hand" line for the systemic discrimination and violence that exists in the US. I mean, the crime rate in this country, both violent and property, have been decreasing for decades now and yet single-parent household rate has largely remained flat, with the vast majority still being helmed by moms. Of course, incarceration rates for men, especially black men (for some reason BOP lists Hispanic men as "White"), is incredibly high, which helps to perpetuate the cycle of single-parent families.
To me, the far bigger point here is that Appling gave off a ton of warnings that he had demons to deal with and most people said "cool, he's 6' 2" and athletic, so let's use him to win basketball games" and when that was no longer true they discarded him. He needs to be held accountable for his actions but blaming it on the destruction of the nuclear family in a vacuum isn't it.
Also there are lots of people from single mother households who turned out just fine.
Of course a stable, loving two-parent household is ideal. Thinking this will happen is a waste of brain power and time.
I think having a stable home life is most important regardless of how you get to it.
In a vacuum I might agree but this is not a circumstance of environment.
Multiple gun charges, rape allegations, heroin selling and now murder. He's a violent psychopath.
There's a dead man, and the first thought is, I hope his alleged killer finds peace?
I hope Appling, assuming he is the killer, finds no peace whatsoever. You kill a man like that, it should torment you and not be something you easily live with. If the family of the dead guy wants to forgive him, that's their right, and it would be really nice if Appling spent the next 25-years-to-life reforming himself so that if and when he returns to society, he's not a threat to it anymore.
Until then, I find it odd that a crime takes place and a man is killed, and anyone's first thought would be for the well-being of the killer. There will be time for that after justice is served.