Florida Universities to open on fall
"Florida’s public university campuses will reopen in the fall, state higher education leaders announced Monday, but details won’t be known until later.
Some specifics will be discussed May 28 at the State University System’s Board of Governors meeting, where a task force will present guidelines for reopening. Representatives from each of the 12 schools in the system will share individual plans about a month later, on June 23."
"shutdown lovers"? STFU
You realize we're opening up with about the same amount of hospitalizations/deaths as we did when we closed down outside of a few major cities?
That was the point. Flatten the curve. We did that and now we can start to reopen slowly but surely. As others have pointed out, the shutdown was never meant to stop the virus. That’s impossible. It was meant to reduce the rate of infection to keep the hospitals from being overrun.
Think about it again. For every place outside of about 3 cities we are opening in the exact same spot we were two months ago.
Tell me. If we are opening places with the same (or higher) rate of hospitalizations/deaths than when we locked down, what exactly did the lockdown accomplish?
The only difference now is the economy is shot. Good work.
Biaka yomama do you really think without a shut down the numbers would have stayed the same?
It worked. Now let’s hope that we are not opening too fast and get another spike in cases.
The Michigan stay at home order was issued March 23rd, so we'll use that date.
USA deaths on March 23rd: 180
USA deaths on May 18th: 1003
Why is it safe now to open up, but we needed to shut down then?
All we did was delay the inevitable while trashing the economy because lockdown is not a sustainable policy. Cases are going to increase now like they were then.
You can’t just pick two dates. Yes death’s are higher now but they are declining from the time in between those two dates.
Also, the opening up is supposed to be gradual to prevent outbreaks. I personally think some things are opening too soon and people just have quarantine fatigue . But the US half assed the shutdown anyways
Because we flattened the curve and will continue to. The issue right now is extremist “eliminate the virus” posts like directly underneath this. That is a radical view of what mitigation should look like that should be uniformly rejected. Nobody is getting locked in their homes “military style” and that crazy shit is why we are in a lose-lose-lose situation. That stuff has got to go.
Nah we should stop the virus. I want every single person to be actually locked in their house for one month. No leaving for any reason. The military will deliver food to your door. That would do a lot to nearly eliminate it.
suppression of data notwithstanding, this analysis seems to be trying their best to objectively estimate net spread, and FL is <1 despite the lack of governmental controls and restrictions. (FWIW, TX is also trending down despite the headlines - will be interesting to track over the coming weeks).
I think reasonable people can disagree on the best interests of 18-22 yr olds WRT education priorities vs C19 risk during this pandemic. In my opinion the debate is more that actions that serve the near-term interest of the general public may not serve the best interests of the students or the long-term benefits of the general public. Will be interesting to hear the updates on this as they release plans.
China just locked down 110M people again due to a 2nd wave emerging in a new providence. Many U.S. companies letting those that can WFH indefinitely. But SEC football and Universities, they are immune to it.
Personally, I would rather not be a citizen of a country that governs like China.
so wait...we are back to believing information that comes out of China again? I feel like I missed so much...dang.
The other Biden told us China isn’t the problem.
The Biden who was having sex with his dead brother's widow? Or the one who knocked up a stripper and wont pay child support?
That would make you a part of roughly 65% of the US population Shane.
Probably the biggest alarm to me is how much of a pro-China sentiment I've seen. And I'm talking about more than arguing the name of the virus.
There is a large segment of the population that seem to be applauding China's policies.
Totalitarian thought has been becoming more prevalent in American culture over the past 10 years. And yes, to everybody who is going to say it, Trump has been a part of it as well. He did not start it, he was more a symptom of it. "I am right, and not only are you wrong, but you are bad" has become the dominant thought process in terms of the exchange of ideas in recent years. Covid-19 was like the thing that came along and turned a bad scratch into a gaping wound in terms of people's need to "control" other people in this culture. Frankly, I cannot believe how fast it has happened in the last 3 months. Some of the things that are being said in this country right now..... on all sides. Kind of wish I would have gotten out when I had the chance. Now it is 1) pray, 2) try to protect the kids.
Whoa... wait a second Skippy Long Satire...
As an independent I can clearly see both sides, of which I clearly see you standing on one. I think what you're seeing is a return to "true center" (I won't say neutral).
Unfortunately what I think you're seeing is that "WE THE PEOPLE" really aren't as intelligent, or as capable of making informed and logical decisions for the betterment of ourselves and others, as you thought we were. This is the primary malfunction of Liberalism, on the other hand Conservatives have a stick up their ass and don't give a shit how many people fail as long as it doesn't affect them... which inevitably it does.
I need only point to the beginning of the outbreak here in the US. I was certainly on the side of going about our daily lives, but being cautious and limiting activities... but nope, we're entitled to our beer and social gatherings with friends. Well now we all fucked ourselves in the lower posterior because of it; NY even promoted their Chinese New Year Festival... an irony, but an event that flooded streets and close contact... sorry NY'ers ya fucked yourselves.
I say it over and over again, because "WE THE PEOPLE" are thick headed, we want what we want, and we'll have it at all costs... well... here's the cost. The totalitarian perspective is due to the financial and social predicament that we're currently in... this is actually positive, as it's forcing people to make a serious decision on their lifestyles, and maybe bringing a greater portion of the population back down to earth (Rock Star Living). This is not to say that we can't have nice things, it's a question of making the proper decisions when the time comes.
I have NO SYMPATHY for those that are unable to pay for a huge mortgage, expensive cars loans, or other materialistic items. Most of us "grown adults" were raised properly to save at least 12 months worth of loans/bills etc. so if we do become unemployed, or if something like this does happen, we have a fallback. Recently read a story about a Michigan grad (see if I can find it) in a financial article, about he graduated from the nuclear engineering program. Him and his brand new wife went out and bought a really nice home in a luxury community, bought brand new BMWs... they bought into a lifestyle. They were told right before this crisis, by a financial planner, that they wouldn't be able to pay off the debt as well as save for their 2 new babies college, until they were well into their 50's.Well FUCK!!! Maybe you shouldn't have had 2 damn kids, or maybe you should have lived a more humble lifestyle, to save properly for those children. It doesn't take a Hopkins Grad (or maybe it does) to understand that action and consequence are directly related.
Counterpoint to this... my heart goes out to people who ARE living within their means, and are struggling to make it. Those are the blue collar types that I love spending my time with, because their wisdom, insight, and approach to life are such an amazing reflection of what this country USED to be.
You make some interesting points worth considering. Good post.
All China (and Korea and Japan and Singapore) shows is lock-downs don't work. Eventually it's going to spread, it's more about making it a manageable spread. You know, flattening the curve, like they told us in the beginning.
I think you're wrong on this, China's lock-down did in fact work, even if we know the numbers they have reported are serious under-counts. China did what few if any nations are capable of doing, and they took a major economic hit for it (from sustained >6% year-on-year growth for years, to negative 6% growth in Q1 this year).
The current outbreak in Northern China is, like the recent Seoul outbreak, absolutely nothing compared to the ongoing daily toll in the U.S., even nothing compared to what we are still experiencing here in NYC. It's all relative.
China's experience is remarkable but probably not replicable. It's South Korea and Germany that we can look to for relevant models, that we might avoid a repeat of the current disaster here.
How do you know it worked? Their numbers are complete garbage.
You're an authority on Chinese official statistics? Please elaborate on "complete garbage" given your decades of experience interpreting them. I only have four.
No matter what the actual early numbers were, they basically stopped the spread of the virus in a huge densely populated country with less than adequate access to care in normal times. Their hospitals are dealing with almost no new cases. If this were not true, they wouldn't be able to hide it. Yes they can censor after the fact, but they can't stop doctors from talking to each other there and here. My wife is in touch with practitioners over there several times a week for her charitable work, she's been talking to them about it since January. The lockdown worked, at a very high price.
whoa whoa...flattening the curve and preventing hospitals from being overwhelmed and using up all the ventilators was so March news...dude we are on, second wave gonna kill three times as many as first wave, and now children...save the children in New York...
We hover at 90K (approximately) and somehow in the next month we 'may reach 400K dead...as it warms up, people are outside (see Florida...) BUT...it's bad man.
If nothing else, this means that Florida State cheerleaders are a go so I am going to give this a thumbs up.
Hope it all works out. I know if I'm a graduating senior planning on going to UF, FSU, UCF, etc., the absolute last thing I want to do is spend a year of my collegiate life stuck taking online classes while still living under mommy and daddy's roof. So I get that.
But by the same token, if there is another huge outbreak that occurs on any of these campuses and the state isn't equipped to deal with it, then that is solely on DeSantis and his people.
I'm with you. Im hopeful, but not terribly optimistic at this point (btw that is how to describe me going into the last 20 or so OSU games) that the reopening is going to stick.
I really hope it does though, I miss sports, all sports, a lot. And I feel terrible for my 15 year old imprisoned in his home w his parents. And I'm sad for my 28 year old who lost his job along w my 31 year old daughter who lost hers.
So it kinda pisses me off when people here and elsewhere imply we don't want positive news simply because we question if the strategy of reopening now is going to work or if the latest "promising vaccine/cure" is real.
So good luck Florida, Florida schools and most importantly Florida students and facility. Nothing would make me happier than to see this work. I just remain very skeptical it will.
There's a *very* vocal minority that just wants to prove how "unafraid" they are of the virus by throwing caution to the wind and calling anyone pumping the brakes a scaredy cat. I'm sure the percentage of people that think that way is very small but damn do they love hearing themselves yell.
Of course, legitimate disagreement couldn't be possible.
'pumping the brakes' is wise, whether its the 'open now!' crowd or 'team stay home until vaccine' crowd. the problem is pumping the brakes implies moderation, reasonable thoughts that might bridge the two gaps. there has been a whole lot of either foolishness or fringe fear mongering that is far away from 'pump the brakes'.
I feel like the "open now" crowd kind of developed as a response to "team stay home until vaccine." It is obvious the latter is not happening, and comes with it the literal elimination of our economy and school system and us thus a non-starter, so the more it started to be advocated in those terms a lot of people were just like "screw it, nothing matters then so just open up completely."
If people who are advocating for "stay home until vaccine" would realize that their position is not a real, actual serious proposition some of the more extreme positions on the other end would moderate quickly.
Exactly. Once politicians got a little taste of power they couldn't resist wielding it. Governors keep saying "science and data" ad nauseam to justify themselves, yet their behavior contradicts the science and data repeatedly (heat helps put the clamps on the virus? keep the beaches and parks closed and ; old people are vulnerable? force covid-infected old people to congregate with non-infected old people; hard to spread virus in open air? ban boating).
I'm simultaneously scared of the virus but think we can and should reopen carefully. I'm more than happy to wear a mask in public, wash my hands, have folks work from home as much as feasible, and be very careful around 60+ yr olds I know. I think there are a lot of people who think this way out there.
Underrated movie Vlad.
Counter point:
Team Lockdown Forever is in response to Team It’s The Flu.
Team "It's the Flu" was never much of a thing. There was a Team "wait making in person-meetings with your brother illegal and possibly subject to criminal penalties does not sound like it should be a thing." I was on that team from the beginning.
Cancel the tournament? Sure, absolutely.
Cancel school? Eh, that is a tough one but this thing is spreading, we gotta stop it.
Cancel the Masters. Huh, it is outdoors, seems like they could just limit crowds.... but, ok, this is serious, sports needs to take a backseat.
Police rope of the kids slide at the park? Huh, A little North Korea-y but ok I will go with it for now, gotta protect the vulnerable.
No gatherings over 50? Ok, yeah, concerts and things can wait.
No gatherings over 10? Anybody else getting a little.....?
Only family contact? Yeah, I'm getting a little.....
But not all family? Um....
All businesses closed. Wait, wha....
Six feet between people at all times, mask on your face, shut up! Oh shit.
Team "it's the flu" is and was definitely a thing. I've heard it from coworkers, friends, and all over the comments here.
I've heard it from coworkers today. Also, it doesn't kill everyone who gets it so just open up.
And Team It's the Flu is a response to Team Estimated Flu Deaths Are Likely Wildly Exaggerated Compared to Actual Flu Deaths (they are still working on the name).
According to the Journal of the American Medical Association influenza is worse for kids then Covid19.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2766037
and i'll add this about the earlier comment about good news being poo-pooed. it was rampant and it went on for week after week. and perhaps a result of the human condition, those that ceaselessly engaged in that conduct had no self awareness of the severity and depth of that literal hatred of that news. to be clear, skepticism about much of the controversy is wise, most things should get a 4 fakes out of 5. but it was like recruiting: one side got 0 fakes out of 5, the other automatically got 5 fakes out of 5.
Here are more numbers for those that think this is ‘like the flu’.
You're arguing with people from 2 months ago.
I'm not surprised and I can see it working. But everyone who keeps pointing out that Florida hasn't been hit hard were likely saying the same thing about ND, IA, and GA a month ago. Maybe Florida has just got it all figured out and their system will work, but beyond the credible claims that FL may be under-reporting some numbers, assuming you're out the woods because you don't see any trees may just mean you didn't get to the forest yet.
Georgia IA and ND have pretty steady daily new cases or lower than this point last month
I meant SD, not ND. They've had a spike. Same with Iowa. Georgia has had some fluctuations and, for example, had a run about week or two ago where they averaged 300 deaths a day. They are trending down now and that's a positive (hopefully that continues), but a month ago all I heard was that none of them had any issues and they were different than coastal/lockdown states.
South Dakota’s rolling 3 day average is flat from a month ago too
SD and IA spikes were due to a very specific problem in meat processing plants. Solving that does not require a full lock down of the state. It requires solving the challenges of operating these plants and testing/tracing of the infected in those plants to mitigate the damage that has already occurred
Huh? Here are the conditions of each state a month ago.
North Dakota:
https://www.health.nd.gov/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/north-dakota-coronavirus-cases
Edit: I see you meant South Dakota. They are in the same boat as Iowa.
Nothing to see here.
Iowa:
https://coronavirus.iowa.gov/pages/case-counts
Iowa's outbreaks have centered around meatpacking plants that would have remained open as essential anywhere. A month ago they were on the upswing, peaked three weeks ago and have seen a steady decline in cases and positive test %. The larger issue here is the conditions of meatpacking plants that rely on low-wage workers instead of investing in technology to improve conditions, but that's another story for another day.
Georgia:
https://dph.georgia.gov/covid-19-daily-status-report
A month ago was roughly the peak and cases have been falling ever since. People were predicting a blood bath upon opening and it didn't happen.
The outbreaks you are seeing are far more manageable now than the chaos we saw in SE Michigan and NYC.
What's more: Other than Albany, GA at the very beginning, were hospital systems overwhelmed in these places? No. Same for Florida, which was the prediction back in early April.
And now its "credible" that Florida is suppressing data? Why? The main reason seems to be that things didn't turn out as they were predicted so now people of a particular political bent have to come up with increasingly dubious reasons as to why that is. We are a step away from hearing that Russians are involved.
Because there are data columns deleted from the covid-19 data tracker files. That’s in the article R.J. macReady posted earlier in this thread ... I think you even commented on it