Fair Write up on the Harbaugh (Non)Suspension Issue
Good Story by Wetzel here (No Paywall). Key Points:
- NCAA is breaking its own rules by commenting on an ongoing case
- Suspension is supposed to max at 6 games
- NCAA seems to be up in its feelings about folks on X (Twitter) making light of the infractions by referring to it as a cheeseburger suspension
- Harbaugh and UM are members of the NCAA and are subject to its rules and oversight
First time post hope everything is above reproach here.
August 14th, 2023 at 1:33 PM ^
is head of the infractions committee is an Alabama alumnus.
Its like we all knew this before it was even said. Someone somewhere is going to expose this backdoor railing on northern (PSU, OSU, UM) and western (USC) teams. Between after burger-gate, stretching and summer camps it has to be glaringly obvious they have an axe to grind.
Bringing up something trivial to see if you cant get a lie out of someone you want to bust sounds so familiar. "Did you have relations with these cheeseburgers mr. Harbaugh?"
August 14th, 2023 at 10:13 AM ^
This reminds me of a previous job repeatedly sending me for drug testing, because they knew i would pass, and cover up for all the other employees who clearly wouldn't. The NCAA obviously doesn't care about schools making a parade of flaunting the rules. The only rationale for throwing the book at Michigan could be: they imagined we would play along, and give them a tiny shred of legitimacy with the public. It has backfired.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
As a former labor attorney, this triggers me more than it should.
August 14th, 2023 at 7:38 PM ^
hey you know what i never thanked you for that
August 14th, 2023 at 10:21 AM ^
So the maximum penalty for this horrible infraction is a 6 game suspension. The parties negotiate a 4 game suspension. Then the NCAA rejects the compromise outcome its staff negotiated. Unbelievable.
Time for new NCAA President Charlie Barker to step in get this resolved quickly.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:31 AM ^
My guess is that the disagreement comes down to what the 4 week suspension means. Michigan/Harbaugh probably saying suspesion means for 4 hours on Saturday only while NCAA probably saying 4 week suspension means Harbaugh can't set foot on campus or call/text/video with any employees or players for 4 weeks.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:33 AM ^
Yooper, it's possible the NCAA Committee on Infractions (CoI) - that (to my understanding) must approve any actions (sanctions, etc.) the member institution must take / follow to remediate the penalty. Based on my reading of the above - the CoI has not approved any negotiated deal to address these alleged violations.
It's unclear to me whether the CoI might, in fact, deem a four game suspension to be too severe. And, again, they may feel it was not enough.
It seems like Harbaugh feels strongly that no violation took place. And, he's principled. So, it does not appear to me that he'll easily "back down" from his position.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:28 AM ^
I truly think this does not matter, He's gone after 2023 IMO. His resume is completely rebuilt for NFL HC job after next season.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
Provided the team doesn't somehow faceplant and fail to reach reasonable expectations. But I'm not worried about Harbaugh's motivation. Go 15-0 and give the NCAA double barrel middle fingers on your way out the door, never to return to CFB.
That's an outcome I can live with.
August 14th, 2023 at 1:08 PM ^
Never underestimate NFL management incompetence.
-Leads the Niners to some great seasons
"This guy can really coach"
-Covid season
"What a bum"
-30 some odd games later
"This guy can really coach, must have"
-Misses expectation in most recent season (2023)
"Meh dont want"
Just following this timeline for their decision making really does state the obvious they collectively have no idea what they are doing.
August 14th, 2023 at 8:51 PM ^
"collectively have no idea what they are doing." How can something this absurd be so true and be said without difficulty (as in, am I being too harsh? NO!)
August 14th, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
Why does it seem like Michigan gets hit hard for all sorts of BS infractions. Michigan got smoked for the Fab 5 that still doesn't hang their banners, yet tons of programs were paying players (Shaq admitted it at LSU once the statute had run out). Jamal Crawford had to go to the NBA early because his parents sent him to live with a friend after his friend got shot. The whole stupid stretchgate thing with RR, that was about as stupid a thing as I can remember. Now the lying about cheeseburgers and something else.
Like another poster stated, NCAA uses Michigan to prove that they are a legit organization that comes down on "cheaters". But it feels like Michigan is one of the only that gets to play. (Reggie Bush deserves his trophy too). Michigan needs to show the NCAA how good our lawyers are and shut this crap down. I feel the 4 game suspension was more than generous in a year Michigan will be in the hunt for the National Championship. Hope this continues to blow up the NCAAs face.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:41 AM ^
Everyone but the SEC. This is what happens when those in power are threatened.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
I think the simplest answer is that other programs also deal with NCAA stuff, but we're not as aware of it because it's not as widely reported in our infosphere. Did you know LSU is vacating wins in football?
August 14th, 2023 at 12:02 PM ^
"Vacating wins" is literally a nothing punishment. Everything to be gained from those wins has already been had.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
Agreed, to a point. It does mention that LSU has to repay money made from those wins, and they can't display the trophies (lol). My larger point is that this stuff happens all the time to other schools, it's just not something at the forefront of our minds. UM needs to get better at playing the NCAA's game.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
If this doesn't impact LSU's national championship season - it doesn't matter.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:37 AM ^
I believe the article states that Harbaugh could expect a MINIMUM of a 6 game suspension not a max of 6 games
August 14th, 2023 at 10:40 AM ^
The NCAA is arguing with message board posters.
A proven strategy to win the hearts and minds of the masses. Bears fruit every time.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:51 PM ^
No it's not!
August 14th, 2023 at 10:28 PM ^
Your sarcasm meter is really in need of some help.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:50 AM ^
Holy cow! Wetzel burns down the NCAA then spreads salt over their farmland.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:53 AM ^
This anti-NCAA stance is interesting since Yahoo obviously has a source in the NCAA investigation.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:52 PM ^
The NCAA isn't the Borg collective. There's probably more than a few employees there who not only see what a farce this is, but recognize it's jeopardizing their whole organization over a pissing contest.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:53 AM ^
Screwing with one of the sport’s highest profile coaches and programs seems like a bad idea. Doing so for something so trivial as “lying” over the purchase of a hamburger for a committed recruit is even dumber.
As realignment so explicitly shows networks effectively run the sport now. Harming the product as the NCAA is apparently doing here is not going to be tolerated by the networks who have billions invested in the sport.
August 14th, 2023 at 10:55 AM ^
I don't know if I should say this in a public forum. However, during Covid - both of my children participated in Zoom meetings with Admissions Advisors from several schools.
Those Zoom meetings were conducted in lieu of "in person" meetings on campuses because Covid guidelines / actions meant that the university campuses were closed to on-site, in person visits.
Both of my children - who are about to start their junior year in Ann Arbor - participated in Zoom meetings with Michigan Admission Counselors / Advisors.
Hopefully, this doesn't result in their Admission being revoked - or - the NCAA investigating whether they were Michigan fans before those meetings took place.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
As long as a Brown Jug waiter didn't also hop on the Zoom call, your kids are all good.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
Thanks for your comment - it's reassuring. However, during subsequent visits to campus - I have taken the kids out to the Brown Jug for a quick bite to eat.
In full disclosure - we not only took the kids to Angelo's - but, we also treated their roommates - and their roommates parents - who weren't familiar with the campus and places to eat. And, on many occasions - we've taken the kids and their friends to other dining establishments in A2.
I picked up the tabs at both the Brown Jug and Angelo's - as well as the other restaurants - and, didn't report it. My fingers are crossed the NCAA won't look into it further.
In case anyone is wondering - I'm 99% sure that at least on person in the party had a cheeseburger at the Jug.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
I was going to say that if anything you're at fault for not instead taking them to Ray's Red Hots just around the corner but I just now checked and they're closed! :( :( I loved that place and I don't even like hot dogs, except for the ones there.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:52 AM ^
As we discuss this - it appears I may have crossed "more than one line". Just for fun, we grabbed a bite to eat at the Tasty Diner - and Avalon is our "go to" for breakfast on Sunday mornings after home games.
Zingerman's has been a destination - and, I always pick up lattes for my wife and friends at either Black Diesel or Roos Roast when we're in town.
OMG - I hope that all of these meals don't result in long term penalties for the Athletic Department.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:01 AM ^
A major conference with a century of history, including responsibility for the first major bowl game, gets cannibalized by conferences and TV deals? NCAA sits idle. But buy a recruit a cheeseburger? Suspension!!
That's the NCAA. And now they're reduced to breaking their own rules and basically getting in Twitter battles with fans.
Yeah ... they're toast.
August 14th, 2023 at 7:25 PM ^
Sorry, what could the NCAA do or have done about all the realignment chaos?
I see this criticism often, but it's not equivalent to a professional sports league with a commissioner or a board that controls such things. SCOTUS took away such power in the 1980s.
I know it's frustrating how weak and powerless the NCAA to handle the big questions that really matter, but I don't think schools and conferences want to give them that degree of authority.
August 15th, 2023 at 12:34 AM ^
All you say is true.
But MIMark's criticism is no less damning for it. Regardless of the NCAA's actual power, litigating a cheeseburger while a 100yr old institutions fails is a sign of how ridiculous the NCAA is.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
To add some perspective from behind enemy lines, I live in Columbus and happened upon the sports talk radio station this morning driving into work this morning where they were talking about this, and even sports talk radio hosts in Columbus think the NCAA is basically saying "Notice me senpai" and that they're basically full of shit. They did say ding us by saying Michigan was dumb for even deigning to engage with the NCAA at all, and... yeah, that's fair.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^
I am really worried putting this suspension off with lead JH to depart after this season.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^
I take this as a good thing:
- Harbaugh coaches all of 2023
- We then have an orderly transition for 2024 when Harbaugh heads back to the NFL
- Only punishment is Harbaugh gets a show-cause to use as toilet paper as he never comes back.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:34 AM ^
Add in that Harbaugh wins us the National Championship here too.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:54 AM ^
I'd prefer to have Harbaugh here as long as possible, so I don't see this as good news. We may have 10 future head coaches on staff, as he says, but will any be as good as he is? That's far from certain.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:57 AM ^
Harbaugh leaves to the NFL without serious effort to try and retain him then guys like me will be done with Michigan football. Michigan will start losing to OSU again regularly.
The same posters who have no issues with Harbaugh going to the NFL were the same ones stating we need Josh Gattis as our head coach.
August 14th, 2023 at 1:22 PM ^
FFS, your last sentence is such a pitiful and untrue generalization. And your entire post is whiny concern trolling.
August 14th, 2023 at 2:58 PM ^
When Jim was interviewing with Minnesota, there were plenty of posters who downplayed losing Harbaugh because Gattis would take his place. I roll my eyes whenever I see posts uplifting Moore as the next anointed head coach.
You don't just let a coach like Jim Harbaugh walk and think everything will continue business as usual. The mission is to keep Harbaugh as long by as possible.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:19 PM ^
I hope that Harbaugh will still take NCAA to a court, with no string attached to him, and put them in shame.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
Not to be pendantic, but yes NCAA, this is about a cheeseburger. The only level 1 violation is whether Harbaugh's statement about not paying for the cheeseburgers was an intentional lie, or the result of a faulty memory. That is the only reason it would rise to the level where you are handling it.
I've been a Navy IG investigator. I can tell you stories about butt-hurt investigators who believed a subject has lied to them. It's the reason that if we thought a subject did lie, we usually brought in a new investigator to examine that.
August 14th, 2023 at 12:18 PM ^
this is my understanding as well. The other violations (zoom meeting a recruit and watching practice over zoom) are level 2 violations. The cheeseburgers incident is the level 1 violation.
Hard to know for certain until a written notice of allegations is provided, but I don't think this is something the NCAA has much evidence on, otherwise they wouldn't have bothered trying to negotiate a settlement to begin with.
August 14th, 2023 at 1:23 PM ^
"The only level 1 violation is whether Harbaugh's statement about not paying for the cheeseburgers was an intentional lie, or the result of a faulty memory. That is the only reason it would rise to the level where you are handling it."
Story isn't that he lied about it.
Story is - he refused to talk to the NCAA investigators about it. Refused to cooperate.
That is the level I violation.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:34 AM ^
Good luck to anyone trying to read the tea leaves on this one. It's worth noting, even two of the most plugged in national writers (Wetzel and Forde) are both shoulder shurg emoji when it comes to what the NCAA is trying to do here.
I think the biggest question is who leaked the first four game suspension. I've seen a lot of speculation it came from M, and so it would make sense if the NCAA is now rejecting that. I don't believe it, though. Here's my theory:
- NCAA leaks a four game suspension
- Harbuagh and Co reject it. They do not want any suspensions
- To avoid having egg on it's face, NCAA now says THEY never agreed to a four game suspension and they need to review the case from the COI.
- Harbaugh and Co say fine, see ya next year.
At the end of the day, it will be totally impossible to prove Harbuagh is lying about some lunch 2-3 years ago. All these other "lying" convictions come with some sort of corroboation - ("I wasn't lying about those messages." "Well, why did you try to delete the files from your phone.") - which you won't have here. It's a total he said, she said with the burden on the NCAA to prove they're right.
August 14th, 2023 at 11:59 AM ^
The NCAA isn’t one set of people here. It seems likely the enforcement people negotiating the settlement, or someone else there leaked it, and the the committee on infractions rejected it. The committee on infractions being the ones who rejected it part seems to be true for sure, based on reliable reporting
August 14th, 2023 at 12:13 PM ^
Never said they were one person - but in a case like this you would absolutely get feedback before anything was leaked. You don't think they would have run it by someone, even informally?
August 14th, 2023 at 12:34 PM ^
The NCAA seems to be a total mess, I don't know how they're operating. But it seems to me that reputable reporters are sure their Infractions Committee rejected it, and that VP being that petulant about it makes it seem that way to me too - like he feels they need to get more to get back at the message board people or whatever. Which feels crazy to write but that's how they're acting. Also this part is speculative but just imo I don't think it's in Michigan's interest to reject the discussed deal. Might have well have gotten it out of the way
August 14th, 2023 at 11:54 AM ^
It's not about a cheeseburger.
It's about TWO cheeseburgers!