Fair and Balanced SI Article
Hadn't seen this one from Rosenberg (with Forde contributing) posted yet on here yet.
Good read (didn't make me want to pull my remaining hair out) running across the behind the scenes war inclusive of Covid visit violations, 'analysts' coaching, in-person scouting, and sign and strategy sharing among coaches.
He (they) pointed out many of the inconsistencies, antiquated rules context, and the equivalent 'impact on the game' between Stallions efforts and coaches information sharing that many national press are ignoring or glossing over.
https://www.si.com/college/2023/11/21/michigan-and-ohio-state-rule-book-war-daily-cover
November 21st, 2023 at 4:22 PM ^
Suddenly Rosenberg is a good guy? Fool me once...
November 21st, 2023 at 4:27 PM ^
StretchTheSignals
November 21st, 2023 at 4:39 PM ^
Stretch the Signals for Burgers!
November 21st, 2023 at 4:31 PM ^
I thought the same thing honestly!! + Forde!!!
But, in reading it through, it's definitely leaning modestly on the UM side of things in tone and in calling out the pettiness and illogical takes behind a lot of this.
That's why I posted it... Give it a read. It's not a Rick Roll.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:36 PM ^
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:46 PM ^
A fake Texan, I tell ya hwhat.
November 21st, 2023 at 4:26 PM ^
Funny coming from the practice minutes guy who really showed how you can use a dumb rule and the mob mentality to get the NCAA to act against Michigan.
November 21st, 2023 at 4:29 PM ^
I think his crusade at that time was more against RichRod than it was against Michigan.
Still, it was a lot of BS.
November 21st, 2023 at 4:32 PM ^
It was.
AFAIK, no one has completely ruled out Stapleton's role in the current mess. May have been small, may have been nonexistent, but we don't know. If he was involved, he'll have demonstrated impressive longevity of influence.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:09 PM ^
I assume that any leaks from the NCAA come from him. He basically confessed it when he went after Bacon.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:16 PM ^
You mean he hasn't gone forward with litigation against Bacon yet? Shocking.
November 21st, 2023 at 4:48 PM ^
Even if it was against RichRod:
1. Still inexcusable
2. Cut off his nose to spite his face
November 21st, 2023 at 5:15 PM ^
I'm surprised at the number of people who don't realize and understand that it was an anti-RR agenda and not an anti-UM agenda.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:17 PM ^
And yet Michigan still suffered. It's not the people "don't realize." It's that It's a distinction without a difference.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:26 PM ^
No. People clearly don't understand it. If they did, they would not be surprised that Rosenberg wrote a pro-UM article (which he does often).
This is not a comment on whether or not Rosenberg's stretchgate reporting was fair or not. It is a comment on his motivations.
If Jemele Hill came to our defense, that would be surprising. When Rosenberg does, that is not surprising, and yet people constantly act surprised, no matter how many times he does it. This is because people--incorrectly--believe he hates Michigan, when really it was just that he hated RR.
That was my point.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:52 PM ^
He just didn’t like RR so he hand fed the NCAA an investigation. Imagine thinking there’s nothing wrong with that or that it’s not against Michigan’s interest.
November 21st, 2023 at 6:22 PM ^
Imagine thinking there’s nothing wrong with that or that it’s not against Michigan’s interest.
Said no one ever?
November 21st, 2023 at 8:35 PM ^
I don't like the guy that drives my daughter's school bus. But that doesn't mean I make him crash the school bus.
November 21st, 2023 at 4:36 PM ^
Full of hyprocrisy, it is!
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November 21st, 2023 at 4:47 PM ^
Please don’t give Rosenberg clicks. That man is dead to us for Stretchgate.
November 21st, 2023 at 7:44 PM ^
Agree, I’ll never forget that hatchet job for personal gain! Hey, look at me and what a great investigative reporter I am. 🤮
November 22nd, 2023 at 3:10 AM ^
That's Pete Thamel now. Being handed this BS clearly from a PI firm hired by an opponent and acting like he's put together some dynamic reporting here.
November 21st, 2023 at 4:48 PM ^
I truly wonder what everyone's opinion of this will be in 10-20 years, when all the noise has calmed down and everyone's moved on. Will everyone outside of Columbus and East Lansing still be up in arms over it and call it the greatest scandal in college football of the last 50 years, or will everyone look back and say "Wow, that was a massive overreaction."
It still seems like everything is so raw, and because there's still so much we don't know, everyone is up in arms, mudslinging as much as possible, and getting all up in their feelings over "protecting the sanctity of the game."
Its going to make for one interesting 30 for 30. I'm sure ESPN has already trademarked "Cheaters and Best" as the future name of the episode.
November 21st, 2023 at 4:51 PM ^
Every Michigan video on YouTube and Michigan post on X has several Ohio State fans all using the word "cheat."
I have a feeling if we can manage to win this game handedly that a lot of that noise will die down.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:19 PM ^
All of the noise, in the short-term, will be calling for Day's head. Again.
November 21st, 2023 at 7:35 PM ^
That may die down but the “we lost because we had to spend countless hours changing our signs” will rev up.
The same idiots (looking at you OSU & MSU fan base) who think we’re the only team that has ever, in the history of college football, figured out signs think that those signs NEVER change.
November 22nd, 2023 at 4:48 AM ^
Had this discussion the other day, which boiled down to the following:
A. If you have signs to keep your plays secret, then ...
B. You have to assume that other teams will try to steal your signs. So ...
C. You should change your signs to thwart their efforts and keep your secrets. But you don't ...
D. Then you really didn't understand the concept of having signs in the first place.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:17 PM ^
If we win it will be viewed like Patriots: Cheated but it wasn't the cause of winning.
If we lose, it will still be viewed like the Patriots, except it will take longer for people to acknowledge it.
November 21st, 2023 at 4:57 PM ^
Interesting because Forde has been not so complimentary on the Yahoo podcast. His comments lack any context and they have been making jokes of it all, but his "jokes" are certainly more pointed and show that he hadn't read anything other than ESPN articles and Buckeye Twitter.
November 21st, 2023 at 4:58 PM ^
I hope Brohm coaches here one day. He's good.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^
"Michigan’s illegal signal-stealing scheme and the ensuing hysteria are another stage of an ongoing battle."
I hate the term "illegal signal-stealing". There's nothing illegal about it. The police will not show up at their door to arrest somebody. It a rule violation (an antiquated rule at that) and should be described as such.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:05 PM ^
...and its really just an interpretation of the rule. Sure, you can say Stalions broke the rule, that paying someone to record the raw footage is just a proxy for being there himself. You can also argue that he didn't so long as no one on Michigan's staff was actually at the games.
Meanwhile, they state that what Ohio State, Rutgers and Purdue did isn't against the rule...well why?
To me it seems you could argue that coaches have been breaking this rule all along and that Stalions actually found a more effective away around it that wasn't technically breaking it at all. Unfortunately, Michigan did not push this and now its just public record that they ran an "illegal sign stealing scheme".
November 21st, 2023 at 5:11 PM ^
That was the AD's first, and biggest, mistake. They should have taken the position that while Stalions acted without Harbaugh's knowledge, his actions didn't violate any rules.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:20 PM ^
Agreed. Also, if you take the approach that Stalions did something illegal but acted alone, literally any connection to anyone else remotely involved with the investigation is going to be played up as part of a larger conspiracy and now you've "lied" about that.
A booster paying Stalions doesn't change the fact that no one on the staff knew - according to every anonymous source - but when it comes to public perception, the lone wolf theory is out the window.
November 21st, 2023 at 7:33 PM ^
Right. I said from the beginning our silence while we were being bashed from every corner initially was a mistake. Our message should have been: we believe what Stalions did was actually not a violation, but to the extent he (acting alone) broke the spirit of the rule, we'll cooperate with a fair process to uncover the facts and we'll accept a punishment that is warranted based on those facts. And then we would later be able to point out that our opponents knew our signals and there's no difference in the impact on the game from stolen signs that were completely stolen legally from ones that *arguably* were not. So any punishment would have to be very minor.
November 22nd, 2023 at 11:30 AM ^
Most teams pay All-22 to record the raw footage in person, and no one has ever claimed that that violated any rules.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:19 PM ^
"Illegal formation. 10 yard penalty, and 5-10 years with a chance of parole."
Yes, I will never stop making this comment when people complain about calling a rule violation illegal.
November 21st, 2023 at 7:00 PM ^
You're ahead of me, I still haven't figured out how reading a publicly displayed symbol is "stealing".
November 22nd, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
"Illegal" can refer to violating rules, as in "illegal block" or "illegal substitution."
Edit: Didn't see Henson already made that point.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:17 PM ^
Ha ha. What's the frequency, Kenneth!
November 21st, 2023 at 5:35 PM ^
I would love for JJ and Kenneth Grant to go off this Saturday and get into top 5.
November 21st, 2023 at 6:03 PM ^
I imagine McCord running away from Grant only to be engulfed by Mason Graham. If McCord goes down and can't play, they are screwed.
Michigan stadium needs to be the loudest it has ever been. This is literally the biggest game ever.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:37 PM ^
I'll take fair and balanced. Nice change of pace. Moar fair and balanced please. Less Thamel and Finebaum. Had enough of their bias and cluelessness to last a very long time.
November 21st, 2023 at 5:53 PM ^
As a reminder, Rosenberg wrote TWO SI cover stories about Harbaugh when SI was still a legitimate magazine product.
One was in 2010 about the Harbaugh family when Jim got to the Niners.
Rosenberg used Stretchgate to a). torpedo RichRod and b). make his bones to make him an SI contributor in 2009 and then joined the staff full-time in 2012.
The problem is this, you can absolutely think that Stretchgate was a hit job that hurt Michigan, but it's also really hard to ignore that Rosenberg is one of the few national writers who is not obviously biased against Michigan. In some fights, you don't get to be picky about your allies.
November 21st, 2023 at 6:02 PM ^
"To sum up: Budgets are now so enormous that programs can afford to assign staffers to scour social media for evidence that another school broke a rule that was designed to curb expenses."
This is a pretty good quote.
November 21st, 2023 at 6:14 PM ^
That was a lot of words to say “Ryan Day is bitchmade soft”
November 21st, 2023 at 6:14 PM ^
Coaches at power programs found a workaround: hire experienced coaches as “analysts,” meaning they can watch film and shape strategy but aren’t allowed to coach during practice or teach skill development. How this serves “student-athletes” is a mystery.
A school can pay one coach $12 million, but it can’t pay 12 coaches a total of $1 million.
The contradictions and hypocrisies are great. Seems to me if whatever governing body needs to sit down and rewrite the rule-book. Either anything goes, or put a strict limit on the budgets of whole programs...or something in between. But this hodge-podge of rules and outrage at one violation while looking the other way on something else doesn't serve the sport or most of it's participants very well.
November 21st, 2023 at 8:37 PM ^
This analyst perspective is great. Saban has done this almost his entire career. Certainly in the NFL at Miami - and, at Bama.
Saban has more analysts than can be counted…. But, all they can do is analyze film, signs, opponents game plans, schemes, and make recommendations to the coaching staff. Oh, they can do other things too.