Doug Skene Offers Tremendous Analysis
I consider former OL Doug Skene to be the leading analyst when it comes to Michigan football. The guy provides cogent, thoughtful insight to the game better than any other commentator. He also has strong opinions on the program which shouldn’t be overlooked. A few snippets from his most recent podcast w Chris Balas:
1. snap count at PSU never changed, which gave PSU D a great advantage in pressuring UM’s O. Calls out coaches for not making a simple adjustment;
2. Much like Jake Long, he laments the OL for walking from sideline to huddle, and really blasts them for contributing to a delay of game penalty before first snap;
3. Detests ND and wants them off schedule permanently;
4. Questions effort of some of the guys (doesn’t mention by name) who are interested in self not team w an eye toward NFL.
A great listen for those of us who want to hear insightful commentary from someone who played the game at UM. Far superior to the mindless prattle from WTKA or even podcasts found here and elsewhere.
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:38 AM ^
Both can be true. We did well against their defense, but still made it harder on ourselves with a snap count issue.
We were doing a weird thing in which the let guard was signalling to the center when to snap it. It seems to have done a good job of overcoming the noise problems you might have with a shotgun snap in a loud stadium, but PSU did get great jumps on a number of snaps. A few plays, they walked someone down on the left side of the formation, and our LG didnt see it and didn't hold up the count to slow that blitzer down.
October 22nd, 2019 at 7:09 AM ^
Ah, the “back in my day” former player analysis. I’m hearing so much negativity from former players, but it’s just getting old. They love to pile on after a loss to tell everyone how hard they worked, how the players back I day were “dogs, not fluffy,”, etc.
yet, UM has only won a shared national championship over 20 years ago. Many of them lost to teams like Illinois and Northwestern “back in the day.”
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:39 AM ^
True, but they won lots and lots of conference championships. There was a multi-decade-long period in which every player who stayed 4 years had won at least one championship.
October 22nd, 2019 at 10:42 AM ^
Some of those were shared, I think. Also, none of those teams had to face a fully loaded (all top-end recruits, HOF coach) OSU team. Look at the record since 2002.
Still, better than what Harbaugh has done so far.
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:21 AM ^
I went back and looked at those years and it's shocking how predictable the results would be. First, they rarely played ranked teams, and when they did they'd best the teams they were ranked above and lose to the ones they were below. The Big Ten in the late 90s/early 00s had the moniker of Big 2, little 8 for a reason, and it largely held serve.
It's totally fine for former players to be critical; I think it's valuable to have those insights. But I've never understood the type of weak hot takes/dog whistling you see guys trot out a lot of the time.
October 22nd, 2019 at 10:38 AM ^
"The Big Ten in the late 90s/early 00s had the moniker of Big 2, little 8 for a reason, and it largely held serve."
You got your decade wrong! From 1968 to 1980 only Michigan State was able to sneak in as a co-champion (to Michigan in 1978), but otherwise it was either Michigan, Ohio State or both as co-champs. This hasn't been true for an extended period of time since.
In the eighties you had Iowa, Illinois and Michigan State as champs. In the nineties you had Wisconsin, Penn State, Northwestern and Wisconsin, and a four-way tie in 1990 between Michigan, Iowa, Michigan State (I still can't believe they got away with tripping Desmond Howard) and Illinois. In the early 2000s you had Iowa, Illinois, Northwestern and Purdue; Ohio State (sigh) was champ or co-champ every year from 2005-2009 but they had to share a couple of those years with Penn State.
October 22nd, 2019 at 11:10 AM ^
Yeah, you're right about the lack of dominance relatively speaking. I just looked at the champions from 1980 to 1992 and saw Michigan of OSU winning over half (and there were a TON of shared titles). But you're right.
October 22nd, 2019 at 12:22 PM ^
Yeah I’d rather not have old players be too critical. But I was replying to a comment that suggested the reason they shouldn’t criticize is that they only won 1 national championship. But that’s a pretty bad take, since 1) they won a lot of conference championships, and 2) we haven’t won one of those in a depressingly long time.
October 22nd, 2019 at 7:36 AM ^
I like Doug Skene's passion for UM and he calls it as he sees it.
October 22nd, 2019 at 7:41 AM ^
Skene has also been highly critical of Mike Onwenu, who is Michigan's highest graded lineman on PFF and an All-American to some.
So take it with a grain of salt.
October 22nd, 2019 at 12:28 PM ^
I know how he feels. I want to be down on Onwenu because I hate his weight. And I’m still 100% convinced he would be even better if he dropped about 30 pounds.
But he’s playing pretty well, and you’ve gotta deal with the evidence, not your ideology. Skene’s not there yet.
October 22nd, 2019 at 7:48 AM ^
Pretty sure he’s questioning the wide receivers outside of Bell, Dropping Passes Jones specifically
October 22nd, 2019 at 7:59 AM ^
Click bait...definitely not tremendous analysis
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:09 AM ^
Analysis, insight, opinions, commentary, thoughts, takes, hot takes,ideas, beliefs, judgments, theories, points of view...
Eat a dick already.
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:55 AM ^
Thanks for the synonyms for "analysis" but I think the main objection was to the adjective.
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:22 AM ^
Eat a dick already.
You sound like you've had many.
October 22nd, 2019 at 10:19 AM ^
Way to get butt hurt over your shitty post. Tremendous analysis is not an accurate description of any of this.
October 22nd, 2019 at 12:05 PM ^
I just had a sandwich, but thanks for the offer.
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:07 AM ^
The snap count was sad. It was fake claps while Bredeson looked back at Shea—why would any member of the defense move when Bredeson’s head was turned looking at Shea. Then Bredeson hits the center on the leg, then clap, snap.
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:11 AM ^
So, just more bitching about stuff. Ok, cool.
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:12 AM ^
4. Questions effort of some of the guys (doesn’t mention by name) who are interested in self not team w an eye toward NFL.
Any names?
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:08 AM ^
That would require having actual examples and willingness to own his mediocre commentary, and that appears to be a bridge too far.
October 22nd, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^
Honestly mean this in the nicest possible way, but your quoted section literally says “(doesn’t mention by name).” Lol
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:24 AM ^
As a general rule, "effort" is a lazy talking point. In particular, suggesting guys that are about to make a bunch of money based on their film and coaches references are slacking based on zero evidence is pretty dumb.
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:29 AM ^
If its not sunshine, rainbows and Harbaugh then you will get negged.
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:57 AM ^
Nah, there's plenty to be critical of which has been discussed ad nauseam at this point. This guy, and several notable posters on this board, are bitching about things for the sake of bitching. It's not that the problem is invalid necessarily, it's the approach and tone of that makes them (you?) come off as a little bitch.
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:36 AM ^
1. Really agree. I noticed the exact same thing watching the game. Ultimately, our offense executed well so it was not an issue, but in a game against strong teams, every disadvantage hurts us.
2. again, agree. It’s not about having a tangible impact, but more of a feelingsball attitude thing.
3. Totally disagree. Maybe not every year but I love playing ND. Two great traditions and programs. Both relatively clean, equally academic and proud, and both in relatively similar places in the college football landscape of today.
4. I hate to say I agree but I do. My wife and I both noticed a few of the higher rated (by former starzz) receivers make a catch and trot out of bounds instead of lowering their shoulder to pick up an extra yard. Compare that to Bell’s effort every time he touched the ball.
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:07 AM ^
I swear people just look for reasons to complain about players. There is no nobility in smashing into guys, and "running out of bounds" stops the clock and gives you, the team trailing, more time to execute your comeback. Compare that to a couple weeks ago when DPJ turned upfield against Iowa instead of running out of bounds, costing the team valuable time that resulted in a long FG attempt.
People see what they want, but I swear there is a contingent of fans who love to talk up star ratings until the moment they are unhappy and then they smash those same guys because they feel they're "lazy". It's this weird jealousy/classism thing I've never understood.
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:16 AM ^
I generally do not criticize players and if you will notice I did not name a single player.
Generally speaking, I am something of a “star-gazer” and want us to get the highest rated Players. But I did notice that a few of our higher rates WR were not playing at full speed and left some yards on the table.
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:28 AM ^
I will criticize a particular player, but not in the same vein as Skene -- I don't think it was b/c he's checked out or anything, just a habit that should be broken.
Collins caught a pass in the first half, made a man miss and was going up the right sideline; due to the camera angle, you couldn't see everything, but it looked like he had only one man in the nearby vicinity. Instead, he just zoomed out of bounds to avoid getting hit.
There is literally no safety or CB on earth as big as him; in a game you're already down big, I would love it if he planted his foot, took it inside and either a) the man misses and Nico picks up 10-plus more yards (or scores!) or b) he bowls over the smaller CB/S making the tackle and makes him pay.
I understand self-preservation in today's football (e.g., no need to take on 2-3 players when you're pinned in and already have the first down) but that was not ideal.
It was a good play by Collins (a 30 yard reception) but I wish he thought "end zone" instead of just "that's good enough." Need to be greedy.
October 22nd, 2019 at 10:38 AM ^
I think this is the play you're referring to, and by my eyes it's Collins trying to get to the sideline so he can slip around the back and, you know, think "end zone". The guy pushed him out; had he tried to bowl him over and slow down then it's just as likely he gets stopped and he loses the chance to maybe get around him and score. There's no great reason to bowl a guy over to act tough; the point is to score a TD and receivers are always taught to use your speed and the angle to try to get around guys. It's not some mental gymnastics to try to avoid contact or be lazy.
Again, so much of this feels like dog whistling and misdirected anger at losing a game. It also reads like prompting; somebody says "the receivers are lazy" and people immediately try to find examples of it to justify a pretty baseless observation. Now, the receivers have all had drops and made bad plays; that's true for every player in college football. But it's quite a leap made by guys like Skene that they're purposely doing so to protect some mythical draft stock.
October 22nd, 2019 at 1:07 PM ^
That's the one -- thanks for the link. Upon looking at it, I (respectfully) disagree..the guy had an angle on him and just a little touch to pushed him out, and there was no one on the inside for at least 10 yards. Nico is not a burner; he should have turned it inside, not with the goal of bowling someone over but scoring.
Contrast that with this play by Victor against PSU last year -- after 20 yards, he turns it up and doesn't allow his big body to be guided out bounds.
Plays aren't completely similar (there were more defenders and a couple blockers for OSU), but that's what I have in mind -- make them actually tackle you, not just a slight push, when you're trying to score.
But to your larger point, I definitely don't think Collins, DPJ, etc are lazy or are mailing it in -- they are trying and if Skene has an issue, he should be specific (e.g., if there are imprecise/lazy routes, etc).
October 22nd, 2019 at 10:39 AM ^
I am one who does give our coaching staff much benefit of the doubt, and it's not just because I'm not a football person, certainly it's not because of sunshine and rainbows or being afraid to be "negative." It's because I believe that the coaches have the best interests of each player, and of the collective, at heart in a way fans may not, and they see things that we don't from the stands or watching on TV. They know who is getting over what injury, who had a death in the family or broke up with their girlfriend, and what those players are experiencing on the field. This is not to say that any of our coaches don't make mistakes. They do, and so do the college age players. It means that I can't assume, as people seem to, that the coaches don't know what they are doing. I also hope for no coaching changes whatever because every year there have been different coordinators and position coaches. Warriner has improved his OL every year. Don Brown is developing NFL players and the team seems to respond well to the new young guy (I have to learn his name). As for Gattis, I have to admit the hire didn't thrill me at first, I didn't like having a young OC with no coordinating experience. I've since come around because things are happening, the offense is evolving, he is bright and motivated, and it makes more sense to stick with him, let him develop and let the players have some continuity with him.
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:54 AM ^
When you say "tremendous," do you mean the opposite?
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:54 AM ^
I'm always skeptical of the claim that some of our guys aren't giving full effort because they have an eye toward the NFL. Does any other team in the country, including the OSUs and Alabamas of the world see this as an issue? No. Coaching is the issue, not effort.
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:05 AM ^
Coaching is the issue, not effort.
I’m always skeptical of fans claiming “coaching is the issue ...” but can’t really articulate what that means nor how that plays out. Let’s take fumbles, for example. Michigan fumbles and immediately via every media available Michigan fans are screaming, “that’s coaching!” and piling on Jay Harbaugh as if somehow Michigan’s coaching staff is too ignorant or arrogant to coach ball security. Anyone who played so much as Pop Warner knows ball security is the A#1 discussion. However, just because it’s preached, practiced, and attempted doesn’t mean that fumbles never happen.
Fans, and especially Michigan fans, have a penchant for blaming coaching for all mistakes but then when great plays are made, don’t give the credit back to the coaches. We (finally) saw the growth of our offense in adverse conditions when they could have given up. They didn’t, and THAT is coaching. They stuck to their message, they didn’t shitcan the whole thing, like many in here said they should, they showed belief and the team responded way better than anyone thought they would at half time.
October 22nd, 2019 at 12:48 PM ^
I'm sure it happens on other teams, and I'm sure sometimes when it looks like it's happening at Michigan, the answer is something else.
That being said, if DPJ had turned in that performance while playing for Ohio State, he would be riding the bench. Of course, it's easier for them to make that decision because they're so deep; but between the drops and the zero-effort-after-catch plays, he should get the message that he's welcome to declare for the draft now if that's what's consuming all his energy.
October 22nd, 2019 at 8:56 AM ^
Why is everyone freaking out about the timeout taken on the first play and acting (again) like this is some sort of coaching malfeasance? What’s so hard to understand. It’s the first play, in your own zone, which is also in the LOUDEST portion the TOUGHEST environment in the B10 and maybe the nation. That was really the only time I saw the offense looked rattled ... again, on the first play. As KH said, you can pipe in sound all you want, but that kind of noice will actually shake your body. Not concerned.
With regards to lazy play, I can’t tell just by looking, but it seems he’s talking about the WR, IMO. Maybe, they’ve heard all the hype about being “NFL WR’s” spewing from this site and think that just because they’re big bodies they’re a lock for the league. Personally, as much as I like the guys and respect them, I think they would do very well to stay at Michigan through their eligibility, hone their craft, and up their draft stock, i.e., they certainly have NFL potential, but they’re not there yet in terms of refinement and production. Yes, the offense is struggling so their production is limited somewhat, but, it’s the drops, and (perhaps what expert eyes are seeing) the less than perfect routes, runs, and blocking that needs work.
Go Blue! Beat ND!
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:03 AM ^
It's a strong take, Doug, to come to another site and shit on their content and quality while providing such insights as "kids today are so lazy" and "I don't like ND".
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:06 AM ^
Beating ND would be cool
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:10 AM ^
Not really relevant to this post, but why does Ruiz shake his head back and forth after the snap? Is he trying to quickly read the defense/where pressure might be coming from or does he have some type of nervous twitch?
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:11 AM ^
Hey, he detests ND. At least we can all agree on that, can’t we?
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:24 AM ^
If that summary is even close to correct, that “analysis” is steaming crap.
October 22nd, 2019 at 9:37 AM ^
Is this insightful? Dude is wrong on almost all his points. The first point is laughable. Penn State did not get very much pressure at all, they were not jumping the snap. At times they were crashing on run blitzes hard but they were not jumping the snap on the pass rush. As far as lack of effort the only thing that remotely supports his point is poor wr blocking, but we don't know if that is effort or a technique issue. I also don't mind playing ND, it's not the playing them that is the issue this year, its the timing of it being in the middle of the season. Though honestly this year it could work out in UM's favor since they were a hot mess early and might be starting to get it going just in time for ND.
October 23rd, 2019 at 8:05 PM ^
I'm gonna need to strongly disagree about the jumping the snap thing. It was blatantly obvious. There were several plays where a Penn State player was charging the line of scrimmage at full speed and entered the neutral zone just a beat after the ball was snapped. I don't actually remember ever seeing that more than maybe once or twice in a few games. I remarked on it at the time, and I'm not usually that observant-- I'm one of those unsophisticated viewers that never played the game and mainly just follows the ball.
October 22nd, 2019 at 10:42 AM ^
Are you really Doug Skene calling yourself the best analyst?
October 22nd, 2019 at 1:51 PM ^
Let's try to be a bit gracious ... maybe the OP is his mom
October 22nd, 2019 at 10:43 AM ^
Skene just lost all credibility!
October 22nd, 2019 at 10:49 AM ^
True story - I worked with Doug Skene at Coca-Cola. I was a merchandiser and he was a sales rep out of the Lapeer Rd in Flint location. This was about 20 years ago.