CC: One reason to keep Jim Harbaugh???

I'm tired of the coaching carousel and I don't want to fire someone because of a pandemic season...

Now. If he wants to leave is another story.  

But folks thinking a coaching change immediately means beating OSU is drinking some watered down kool aid.

One reason would be that he has had great success in both college and the NFL.  He's not been the same fiery dude the last couple years, but that fiery dude/great coach has to be in there somewhere.  That's my one and only reason.  

Brian Kelly is like the rorschach test of college football coaches...

• Is he good?
• Is he bad?
• Is he overrated?
• Is he underrated?

The answer is YES.

This has been discussed here and there in this threads about CC already but hey why not do it again?

Only one small teeny weeny problem with your thesis. In his 3rd year, Brian Kelly got ND to the BCS championship game. So there is that. Not to mention he is .500 in bowl games which isn't great but its better than we've been getting. They've also been to the playoffs twice in last 3 years. 

Just because other coaches have success after several years doesn't mean the same holds true for Jim. First many of those teams saw success that was built on and secondly those coaches generally weren't looking for NFL jobs.

You want to know the number one reason not to keep Harbaugh at this point? Why do you want to keep a guy who clearly doesn't view UM as his overwhelmingly first choice? Jim not signing that extension yet is proof enough that at least part of him wants to be somewhere else. 

Big difference is Kelly's BCS National Title Game appearance in 2012.  That would be akin to Harbaugh winning a big ten title in 2016.  

But alas, Harbaugh is 0-5 against OSU, and no big ten titles.  I'm ready to move on from Harbaugh, but apathetic if he stays.  The team needs a rebuild, if it's Harbaugh I'm skeptical it can be done.  If it's someone else there is hope.

ND isn't any closer to winning a championship than we are, they just don't have to get through OSU. 

So you're telling me if Brian Kelly lost to USC every year the way Harbaugh loses to OSU that Notre Dame would have been okay with it?  It's not the overall record on paper that is troubling about Harbaugh.  It's the way he can't win on the road vs ranked teams, has a shoddy record against MSU and an abysmal one vs OSU.

Because, every single one of his teams have had ridiculous amounts of bad injury luck (to key players).  Go look at each OSU game, and then look at the injuries before and during those games.

I hear a lot about "QB development", but what gets lost is that every single QB (and most backups) have gotten hurt every single year.  Either during the OSU game or right before....except Patterson who got hurt on the first play of the season AND during the OSU game.  Kinda hard to develop QBs, when they all get hurt.  Lol

All that shows is one example of a coach that went from 'just o.k.' results in act one to excellent results in act two.

Dabo could also fit in that category, though his second act has been top three program level.

The relevant question:  What about Harbaugh suggests that he has qualities that will make his second act substantially better than the first act?

For Kelley I think he always was a plus offensive mind and a plus in-game play caller.  Maybe his explosive outbursts were a problem.  He seems to have eliminated those.  Or maybe it was just having Ian Book or more generally better QB play than he had in the act one period...

I understand where you're coming from OP but, making comparisons to other coaches can only go so far. I see why you say, "what's to say that Michigan can't follow a similar path?" But, what's been indicative that they will? 

I think we need to be honest about where we are as a program.  If you throw out a COVID year (explain why later) Jim is 47-18  in 5 years, the previous 7 we were 46-42.  At any other school they would be thrilled but we still think we are comparable to BAMA when in terms of state talent recruiting restrictions (attending class, paying player), and weather we are closer to PSU, Nebraska, and Tennessee. Yet we have perform extremely well compared to those programs.

I am excluding this year from the numbers because most programs would not have 5 guys who could have been drafted in the top 3 rounds miss multiple games either tough injury or sitting out from COVID.  Our practice restrictions are more difficult than other teams (Werner interview about contact tracing leading to missed practices).

One reason?  Hope?  Dream?

That we could see firepower like the 2007 team v FLA in the 2008 Capital One Bowl.  And besting a team that had coaches with the names of Meyer, Mullen, Strong, and Mattison.

5p on Day 2 of Harbaugh’s flirtation with the NFL. I’d say if he hasn’t signed his extension by now, then Warde should let him go even if the AD has to pay the buyout. Harbaugh is not 100% committed to the program if he hasn’t signed the contract by now. This whole situation is creating more instability with the program. If there’s not a full blown announcement tomorrow morning about the extension and naming all the new assistants, then recruiting is going to be tough sledding going forward if Harbaugh returns.

Football aside... the overseas trips have been a really cool thing and I’m proud of Michigan for doing them.  I don’t know if they specifically were his idea but if not, he’s gone along with them, when a lot of coaches probably wouldn’t have.

My biggest reason:

the problems from which UM football suffers are much bigger than the HC, and parallel the problems of the entire NCAA structure.

The fact is over the past ten years maybe 4-6 teams are performing consistently. The fact that there is not a healthy turnover of dominance suggests to me an unhealthy league format. The field is no where near level.

You can put anyone in the UM coaching job, and UTx coaching job while we're at it. Won't make a difference for either program.

Harbaugh agreed to an extension. Just in

He is a great coach that went awry with that defense with no DT.  He will fix it now. Finally abandoned the positionless small DL.  Now they key is getting a few DT transfers.   We have Cade who I think is great.  Future is bright folks. 

I think he brings in a successor however, and leaves in a few years. 

Harbaugh is dead inside.  He has no fire, no enthusiasm unknown to mankind.  He seems to be going through the motions. Like he doesn't really want to be here.  If what appears to be true, is, then there is no one reason to keep him.

Can we talk about this and any other compelling reasons to stand behind Jim Harbaugh instead of sending him packing? 

Prior to Kelly's 4-win season in 2016 there are a few things to consider.  One, Kelly had already been to a NC in 2012.  Two, in the two seasons prior Kelley won 8 games in '14 and 10 games in '15, so he was projecting positively before that bad year.  JH on the other hand has been getting worse for 3 consecutive years.  The biggest concern with JH IMO is his trajectory.  He's won 10 games several times so we know he can, but the program seems so far removed from a 10-win season.  I have a hard time seeing JH getting back to a 10-win season in the next two years.

"He won with Hoke's players"

Listen, regardless if you are pro Harbaugh or a Harbaugh hater.  This is a nonsense take.  Please, stop this.

None of the players Harbaugh inherited were excelling at their positions, prior to Harbaugh’s arrival.  Hell, some weren't even playing or weren't even playing the position that they ultimately became successful at.  Those players weren't successful individually or as a collective team.

Without the arrival of Jake Ruddock and some productive Freshmen, then 2015 wouldn't have been as successful.  100% Harbaugh.

2016-Even more super productive Freshmen and Sophomores

2018-Which is the only year where Michigan shared the division championship.  The year where they went undefeated in conference, going into the OSU game.  Only one of those players were "Hoke's players".  Chase Winovich.....which was recruited as a linebacker, and didn't play under Hoke.  Winovich was also hurt against Indiana, and again against OSU and didn't play.

This narrative of "won with Hoke's players" is such a lazy and inaccurate take.

That is a take you give to the first year coach, taking over a very good roster, and having success.  Then having declining years every year after that.  Hoke, actually, would fit that mold.  11-2, 8-5, 7-6, and 5-7.

Harbaugh has not.  10-3, 10-3, 8-5, 10-3, 9-4, and 2-4 (Covid season).

So, PLEASE, stop with this nonsense.  It's an ignorant suggestion.

One difference with Brian Kelly is all of their rivals and the bulk of their schedule has become insanely pathetic..

Almost every week is a gauranteed win on their schedule unless they fuck up bigtime

Personally I’ve seen enough from Harbaugh to vote no confidence. 

BK didn't have a massive personality change from when he was hired. Sure, I'd  like to keep JH from 2016, but as far as I can tell he doesn't exist. 

JMFH is no more.  If he was the same guy he was at Stanford, San Francisco, and UM 2015 and 2016 I'd be all for giving him more time.  He looks checked out and disinterested.