CC: How does Alabama having a vacancy affect Michigan?
January 10th, 2024 at 7:35 PM ^
Going to say not at all. I don't think they're going to hire from the Harbaugh tree, nor are they going to hire someone who is likely to poach our current assistants.
I don't think it changes Harbaugh's decision matrix at all.
There's always going to be a merry-go-round effect when coaches retired or get canned, so there will be a bunch of moves, I just don't really expect Alabama specifically to affect Michigan.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:43 PM ^
What is the OP getting at, that maybe UM has their sights set on a guy who just happens to be Alabama’s first choice and who when given the two job offers chooses Bama?
I’d imagine that’s a pretty short list of potential candidates.
Besides, if it’s not Harbaugh, it’s Moore, right?
January 10th, 2024 at 8:02 PM ^
That would be a really bad idea. Sherrone Moore isn’t exactly an elite X’s and O’s guy. His offenses are whelming.
What differentiates him and Sam Pittman at Arkansas? Both excellent OL coaches who are great recruiters and well liked. But Sam isn’t doing so hot.
It’s lazy AF to always try to hire the internal or connected candidate.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:05 PM ^
Under or over? Seriously though you’re a video game offense guy right?
January 10th, 2024 at 8:08 PM ^
Here's the thing, Sherrone would most likely be Harbaugh's first choice (JH has probably been grooming him for it all year). By keeping Sherrone, you keep the Harbaugh culture, AND the Baltimore Ravens-->Michigan DC pipeline. Say goodbye to that defensive scheme if you go trying to get anyone else. Same applies for keeping Herbert.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:15 PM ^
That’s not the only defensive scheme that works.
No, you don’t keep the Harbaugh culture because Harbaugh is gone. Harbaugh grooming someone doesn’t necessarily make that person capable or qualified to be head coach at the University of Michigan.
Your approach is based on fear and assumption. Mine is based on demonstrable ability.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:51 PM ^
Rich Rod was the hottest coaching candidate in the country, with tons of coaching experience, with tons of demonstrated ability. The turmoil his hiring created, certainly not entirely all his making, cratered the program for a decade.
And do you really think turning away from a guy who was in charge for 2 of the biggest 4 wins of a national championship year isn’t going to create huge rifts within the program?
January 10th, 2024 at 9:10 PM ^
Except the RichRod hire ignored that there wasn't a cultural fit, and there wasn't a schematic fit. Somebody decided to throw out the baby with the bathwater as if there was literally nothing in the program worth preserving or continuing. Rip up everything, burn it, rebuild from the ashes. It was a bad decision then; it won't be repeated.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:56 PM ^
Is someone as likely to come in as “bull in a china shop”/“I need to clean this place out” as Rich Rod did? No, almost certainly not. Would almost every player on the team for the past three years and tons of program alums be incredibly upset that the guy they felt had earned his shot by leading the team against Penn State and Ohio State got passed over? Absolutely. Particularly if it’s the guy coaching the team Michigan just beat for the national championship?
That’s the kind of thing that takes an amazingly talented leader/manager of people to overcome. It has such a higher chance of failure in the immediate term than hiring Sherrone. If you do something like that, you have to believe you have a best coach in a generation type figure, because otherwise, you’ve just destroyed the commitment of whole classes of players and former players.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:30 PM ^
DeBoer took a team that was 4-8 two years ago and went to the National Title game. He has won everywhere he has been head coach. He is Beilein.
Meanwhile, Sherrone Moore coached the team on four gamedays. He wasn’t in control during the week. He has never ran a program. He is Juwan Howard.
You invoke RR but ignore Hoke.
Hire the wrong guy and you risk destroying a level of success. An inexperienced hire is much more likely to fail than a guy who has a track record of success at your level of football. Moore is by far the riskier choice. You simply have no idea whether he can handle the position or not. But you do know that DeBoer can.
When choosing pilots you go with the guy you know knows how to handle a plane, not the guy you think knows how to handle a plane.
January 11th, 2024 at 2:22 PM ^
Hoke also had head coaching experience! He had been coach of the year in separate conferences!!! DeBoer has run a program, and has succeeded everywhere he's been, but one that receives far less national attention than Michigan and receives, at best, the 3rd (arguably 4th) most attention in its local market. His recruiting classes have been in the low 20s.
Would he do better at Michigan? Probably. But every head coaching hire is a risk! There's one hire that won't alienate large portions of players and alumni, something that we've seen in very recent memory is a real possibility and can crater the program. If there wasn't an obvious candidate that had been on an upward trajectory for years within the program, by all means, open it up, even if that means you have to blow everything up that's been built over the last 3 years. But that's not the case we're in. Maybe Sherrone is David Shaw, which, in and of itself, is not the worst outcome, and we see plateauing at some level below winning the fucking national championship. Maybe he's Kirby Smart or Lincoln Riley. Regardless, don't break what's working.
January 11th, 2024 at 1:40 AM ^
If it takes such an insurmountable effort to be an effective coach at Michigan then that's Michigan's problem.
When Tressel was fired at OSU they recognized Fickell wasn't ready. They swung for the fences and got Urban Meyer, then Urban Meyer was fired, they went with the internal hire and are now starting to regret it.
I fear Sherrone Moore will end up being Brady Hoke with an OL background instead of DL.
January 11th, 2024 at 2:06 PM ^
C'mon people, put some thought and research into your arguments. Fickell had an entire season as interim head coach and posted one of the two losing seasons in the last 50 years of OSU football (other was Cooper's first year). If Sherrone had been in over his head the way Fickell was, we wouldn't be having this conversation.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:02 PM ^
Moore wasn’t in charge. Harbaugh was there for the week of preparation.
Rifs will occur in the program when he shows he can’t handle the job.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:43 PM ^
I can name multiple coaches that worked out. Michigan needs a extensive coaching searchh, not just automatically handing the keys over to Moore. This absolutely effects Michigan and it should.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:57 PM ^
You opine as though you didn't live through the RichRod hire like the rest of us. Note the successes of Bo to Mo and Mo to Carr. Culture and talent kept.
Hiring outside would send half of our talent to the portal because the last thing they'd want is anyone new to come in and dare tweak the culture like RichRod did. Except it would be worse, because the culture RR tweaked was LLoyd's diminishing results in his last few years (OSU, App State, Oregon, USC, Texas losses, etc.), whereas the current culture is this odd thing called NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP culture. You simply fail to understand the fact that any outside hire would result in a complete reboot, with very few current top players sticking around for it. No thanks.
It will be Sherrone, so live with it. It will not be easy because Harbaugh will take Minter with him to the NFL, but know what? It's all downhill or at best sideways from where we are now anyway, looking down from the summit, so just enjoy the view, and appreciate the internal hire when it comes.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:18 PM ^
I'm sure Elston and Clinkscale can run the defense and Moore will hire a good OC
January 10th, 2024 at 11:10 PM ^
You simply fail to understand that an internal hire will sink the program mediocrity. Players and coaches will leave because the linchpin is no longer there. Once Harbaugh is gone what made the program special will dissipate.
Michigan will rot internally as it did in the late Lloyd years.
Your perspective is bizarre and totally disconnected from reality. Schools go outside for hires all the time and flourish. Texas, Washing, Alabama,etc.
Only at Michigan do people cling to this need for incestuous hiring practices. They do so because they are ignorant of the sport and it’s history.
You have presented a poorly reasoned argument. For shame.
If
January 11th, 2024 at 9:58 AM ^
This was mentioned by someone else, perhaps in another thread, but David Shaw is a good comp to Moore and he had Stanford humming along for quite a while after Harbaugh left. Michigan can sustain its success in ways Stanford cannot.
I would not be worried if Moore was our next coach, I would be more worried if a new staff came in and shook things up roster-wise and philosophy-wise.
January 11th, 2024 at 1:44 AM ^
Lol Michigan finally wins it all and some fans go back to their worst tendencies.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:27 PM ^
Mine is based on demonstrable ability.
also a lot of trolling. a metric f***ton of trolling.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:11 PM ^
Only a fuckton of logic and reason.
Your post is a literal troll.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:28 PM ^
Yes, so logical to say things like "Harbaugh leaving will make the specialness dissipate", a 100% factual statement based in fact and not, say, predicting the future.
You must hate championships too because you appear to have forgotten that Lloyd won a championship before his culture deteriorated at age 62. It would be "logical" to conclude that Sherrone wins a national championship and five big ten titles before his culture fades, too, wouldn't it?
You are all feelings, dude. And they are weird ones to have two days after we won the national championship.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:35 PM ^
You ignore that Carr was here for 12 years and in a variety of roles before he got the HC by accident. You ignore that Mo got the job after acquiring experience at Illinois. You ignore the fact that Bo was an outsider who had head coaching experience at a “lesser” school.
Your argument lacks facts and logic, Dude. You aren’t good at this. Like not at all. Leaving out most of modern UM football history is…uh, yeah.
Comeback when you learn the history of the program.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:43 PM ^
Okay so your criteria, so people can judge for themselves how serious you are:
-- Sherrone would be more acceptable if he coached at Michigan for six more years.
-- Sherrone would be acceptable if he went 6-24 as a big ten head coach
-- Sherrone would be acceptable if he was hired from the Ryan Day coaching tree (as Bo was from Woody's) as long as Sherrone has five years of head coaching experience.
If you just said "Sherrone is only 37 and needs more experience" I think you'd make a point I don't totally agree with, but that also doesn't at once grate and reveal all your bizarre anxieties about the national championship winning program.
January 11th, 2024 at 4:57 AM ^
i thought you were on hiatus, or something. we had subs, it was awesome.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:27 PM ^
You seems unaware of the likelihood that Harbaugh would take coaches, including Minter, with him.
January 15th, 2024 at 12:24 PM ^
No, I expect that. That's why I said the Ravens-->Michigan DC pipeline would remain "open" with Sherrone. Harbaugh will take Minter, but do you think John and Jim will turn a deaf ear to Sherrone if he wants an NFL level DC? I think not.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:19 PM ^
The argument for Moore is probably aligned with trying to keep the culture intact and the foundation of playing complementary football, especially in light of the potential departure of our QB1, RB1 and 2, and a host of others.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:26 PM ^
I'd go Minter if I'm doing 1st head coach...his side of the ball has been incredible. Now having said that I'd much rather go DeBoer or Fisch.
I'll get Bama doesn't promote from within, no way, they'll go after the top of the line.
I tried to think of a program that lost their HC immediately after the natty and I can only think of JJ Miami? definitely Osbourne at Nebraska. It's rare I believe both hired from within though I could be wrong with Erickson/Solich. Mixed results too.
It sucks we just won the natty and the only thing I can think about is our recruiting bump won't come because of our coaching uncertainty. Just need Harbaugh to shock us and sign hopefully soon.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:49 PM ^
It's hard to say with Minter as HC candidate.
On the one hand, the offense looked to have the best flow when Minter HC'd. BUT: that could be the opponent. Also, Sherrone, I presume, was calling those plays as OC.
On the other hand, Sherrone did an AWESOME job keeping everything together and pointed in the right direction at the most difficult time of the season. Though Sherrone's offenses did not seem to have the same flow / continuity, the opponents were much better and Sherrone has tons on his plate.
So it's a tough call, you want to keep the culture/continuity but hiring coordinators that haven't been coaches has a lower hit rate, I would guess.
This is another reason why I want Jim staying right at Michigan.
January 11th, 2024 at 7:27 AM ^
Jedd fisch? 😭
January 11th, 2024 at 6:40 AM ^
You probably like the Rich Rod hire
January 10th, 2024 at 8:08 PM ^
If and / or when Harbaugh decides to take off for the NFL, I genuinely hope Warde, et al. conduct a formal hiring process instead of "pulling an ND" and promoting from within. While I like Moore a lot and he seems like a great guy, the offense has looked absolutely anemic at times this year, and his play calling for portions of the Rose Bowl and Championship Game were baffling. I fear his promotion would be more about feelings than actual rational decision making about what's best for the program.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:18 PM ^
Yep.
Brady Hoke, Ed Orgeron, Larry Coker…all great positional coaches who “appeared” to be good choices but were exposed as time wore on.
Moore needs to go Harbaugh’s route and start at a lower level to prove his chops unlike Third Base.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:31 PM ^
Where was Hoke looked upon as a good choice ?
January 11th, 2024 at 1:52 AM ^
Within the Michigan circles that also undermined Rich Rod from day 1.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:58 PM ^
Yeah, I agree with you here. My first choice, if Harbaugh does bolt, is Jedd Fisch. He rebuilt Arizona--he can maintain Michigan.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:15 PM ^
Sign me up for Fisch.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:47 PM ^
Deboer is the first call! Guy has won everywhere he’s been, that seems more transferable than 1 year of real success for Fisch.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:06 PM ^
Except that Moore already proved his chops by beating Ohio State and Third Base. Who else out there is 1-0 against OSU? And this comparing Sherrone Moore to Brady Hoke is about the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:24 PM ^
It’s crazy. People are treating it like Hoke went straight from coaching Michigan’s d-line to head coach of Michigan. Hoke had years of head coaching experience. He’s like the case study for why head coaching experience shouldn't be regarded as a prerequisite.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:31 PM ^
Eh. Moore is terrific and maybe should be option 1A or 1b. But he won games with a team overseen by Harbaugh, who also coached all week and did all the game-planning. Being a HC at a major program goes well beyond managing the team on gameday. I’m not against hiring Moore. But he’d be a gamble.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:50 PM ^
Hiring anyone is a gamble. But hiring Moore would be a gamble that didn’t immediately piss off the most important stakeholders the program needs in order to be successful. The players clearly respect and follow him. They clearly regard him as a leader. And they put in a lot of work.
Should Harbaugh leave, this is an unprecedented situation. It’s literally a national championship team (damn, that feels good to write) that was coached, at least on game day, for more than 1/4 of the games, including half of the biggest games, by someone who would be the leading candidate for the job. I can’t imagine hiring someone else and it not causing a huge amount of disappointment and anger among the players.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:17 PM ^
So? You hire coaches for the long benefit of the program. Hiring a guy who is out of his depth would essentially put us back in the Hoke era. It’s like you guys forget what that was like.
There is no good argument for hiring Moore over a proven big time coach like DeBoer. Players and coaches aren’t going to all leave despite the hysterical claims on here. Some people. But most will not.
I see people making arguments that leave out inconvenient facts because it doesn’t suit their argument. Reference RichRod but not Hoke. That’s not serious argumentation.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:51 PM ^
He might work out but he may not. Remember that Harbaugh was still part of the game plan up until the game. So,.we really don't know if he can build a program. He has proven he can do well in-game. He might work out but if a proven candidate is available, you got to take a look.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:07 PM ^
How about what we should absolutely not do is go "Oh boy Michigan football is so boring. They just run up the gut all the time.. we need an exciting new coach that brings an exciting electrifying offense" Like people like you did in 2007 before the dark times started.
January 10th, 2024 at 11:12 PM ^
People like you are now we got Brady Hoke.
January 11th, 2024 at 12:19 AM ^
Brady managed to beat Ohio State. Ram Rod didn't even get close and cried his way out of Ann Arbor.