BoCanHam15

September 15th, 2017 at 6:06 AM ^

Anti-Speight when he was doing spot work against Minnesota in 15'. The one mistake I made last week at the game was being extremely frustrated with the refereeing and that play call on 3 and 10 at the same time. However, I'm positive he's our best shot this year. He has nothing to prove, but I guarantee he'll get better and has a chance to win a championship, while at Michigan.

Joined: 07/08/2016

MGoPoints: 16110

yourpaltal

September 15th, 2017 at 6:27 AM ^

Harbaugh.  Full stop.  

That being said, I think he knows he's got a lot to clean up this week if he wants to keep Harbaugh's confidence.  

I have no concerns that Harbaugh would play one guy over another because of, "loyalty" or some other bullshit.  The best guy will play, and since I can't make it to practice everyday, I'll let the coaching staff determine who that is.  

Joined: 01/08/2009

MGoPoints: 527

WayOfTheRoad

September 15th, 2017 at 7:13 AM ^

True for both 2016 and 2017. He's our QB. The frustration from most is that he IS our best QB option in 2017. Speight is a mediocre QB that does 2 things well and everything else at a "below-average to poor" level. He has a solid deep ball and he's pretty good regarding pocket awareness. In every other way he's below-average at his best. He's never going to be a guy that puts UM over the top vs a quality opponent. He's just not. He's a guy that probably wouldn't have gotten a PWO spot from Jim. He's a Borges QB recruit. He was built to be the unremarkable starter at NC State in his RS Sr season, not starting at Michigan as a RS SO. The best we have (worry if still true next year) but that doesn't mean he's anything above mediocre....and this year he's down 3 pass catchers in the NFL right now while still having an iffy OL/run game. He has to gel with these young WR/TEs for us to avoid 3+ losses and I don't think he can. I know O'Korn cant so you ride with Speight. You ride with Speight or put Peters in knowing this will be his learning year and we'll lose 4+ games.

Joined: 06/26/2017

MGoPoints: 7609

Sten Carlson

September 15th, 2017 at 9:30 AM ^

And here I thought the American textile industry was all but extinct. Yet, as it turns out, you have revived it by weaving a masterful tapestry -- expertly crafted with threads of fine dire prognostication, baseless speculation and comparison, and all tied together with definitive statements colored with exquisite lack of perspective and knowledge. Then, you wrapped whole pathetic thing in an big bow with a tag afixed reading, "you suck and shouldn't be here, and we'll never win with you ... but since you're all we've got, I'm gonna ride you! Signed, a pathetic, pessimistic Michigan fan!" Ignorant, passive/aggressive bullshit! Maybe someday you'll come to grips with the fact that just because you're a hand wringing ninny, quick to throw Michigan players under the bus to suit your own irrational narrative, doesn't mean that MOST Michigan Men are as well.

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: -56

Sten Carlson

September 15th, 2017 at 10:19 AM ^

Rich coming from one of the "one liner crew" who post mostly vapid platitudes. Anti-WS throw around words like, "regression" and "never," while conveniently neglecting to discuss the entire body of work. I think that's because the entire body of work is positive, but some choose to ONLY focus on the negative. To me, that smacks agenda driven disingenuousness.

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: -56

WNY in Savannah

September 15th, 2017 at 11:19 AM ^

I honestly think it's more of a "personality of the observer" thing.  Optimists are seeing things one way and pessimists are seeing things another way.

As my father said, "The optimist believes we live in the best of all possible worlds.  The pessimist fears that this is true."

 

Joined: 09/18/2013

MGoPoints: 638

uncleFred

September 15th, 2017 at 3:58 PM ^

"He's a guy that probably wouldn't have gotten a PWO spot from Jim. He's a Borges QB recruit. He was built to be the unremarkable starter at NC State in his RS Sr season, not starting at Michigan as a RS SO."

In 2015 Jim Harbaugh did not have a QB who he felt could successfully lead his offense. So he recruited Jake Rudock and coached him and the rest of the team well enough to win 10 games with a team that, with most of the same players, went 5-7 the previous season. If what you say were true, then in 2016 Jim Harbaugh would have recruited someone else to lead his offense. The fact that he did not do so, demonstrates that your assertion is false.

Speight is undoubtedly the best choice among the QB's on the roster, but he is the starting QB because Harbaugh is convinced that he can win games with Speight.

Joined: 10/14/2011

MGoPoints: 2399

swdude12

September 15th, 2017 at 7:25 AM ^

Speight in my opinion has regressed and the turnovers are occurring more and more.  He is not an accurate passer past 10 yards.  Obviously they have been working on it for 2 years and he has not gotten any better.  I think that is what everyone is getting tired of and want to see O'Korn and Petters at least get some drives.  

Joined: 09/01/2009

MGoPoints: 1880

Schemboeller C…

September 15th, 2017 at 9:14 AM ^

Speight has hit two deep passes this year (both touchdowns) which looked to be the exact same play. The first one was severely underthrown and he almost let the Florida defense catch up and knock it down. The second was a fairly good pass, I'll give him that, but there wasn't a Cincinnati defender within 15 yards...

Joined: 12/13/2015

MGoPoints: 2230

EGD

September 15th, 2017 at 10:10 AM ^

I guess you're not counting the dime he dropped on Eubanks as a deep ball?

And I don't really agree that the ball to Black in the Florida game was "severely" underthrown.  He got it there in plenty of time for Black to make an easy TD catch.

Really the only deep ball that I think Speight threw poorly this season was the pass to Khalid Hill against Cincinnati, and even that was a ball that Brian marked CA in the UFR and credited the defender with a great play.  Most of Speight's bad passes have been overthrows on shorter routes.  

There could be one or two that I am forgetting but from my recollection he's about 3/4 on deep shots so far this season.  That's a much better start than Rudock in 2015, who missed Chesson deep twice against Utah on what would have been game-changing plays.

Joined: 09/16/2009

MGoPoints: 35199

MGoBlueMyself

September 15th, 2017 at 9:34 AM ^

I'm frustrated like anyone else. Thought he had worked his tail off this off-season and would have some of the blantant mistakes behind him.

Most all of his skill guys are very young and we need him. What we don't need is a fan-led QB controversy. We are 2-0 and they need our support. I trust Wilton's work ethic and desire to improve. Most of all, I trust Jim Harbaugh. 

I support Wilton Speight. 

#isupportspeight

Joined: 10/07/2016

MGoPoints: 1458

LSA91

September 15th, 2017 at 2:37 PM ^

I don't think the case for Speight is complicated - Harbaugh and Hamilton think he's better than any alternative, and right now, he's pretty good but not yet a national championship quarterback.

The question is whether Harbaugh can help Speight develop from a B+ quaterback to an A- or better. As Brian pointed out, if you take away one turnover per game, we can get by. Among other things, taking away one turn-over at the OSU game gets us to the playoffs.

Joined: 11/28/2011

MGoPoints: 2707

hennesbe

September 15th, 2017 at 10:17 AM ^

One doesn't have to be a QB expert to see that Speight isn't a top level QB that you can count on to lead the team to big plays. If Speight was a feshman making the bad throws we could all say lets give him some time.   IMO he's the best Harbaugh has right now while he is waiting for one of the freshman to arrive.

Joined: 09/11/2011

MGoPoints: 418

bigike

September 15th, 2017 at 10:36 AM ^

among this fan base that believe we have a better option than Speight? That somehow Harbaugh is missing something after watching his qbs take thousands of practice snaps. He's the best we got folks! Might as well get behind him because booing isn't going to help but it sure as hell could hurt. An athletes psyche is a real thing and can be fragile. We dont need Speight to start doubting himself.

Joined: 12/01/2010

MGoPoints: 455

bigike

September 15th, 2017 at 10:36 AM ^

among this fan base that believe we have a better option than Speight? That somehow Harbaugh is missing something after watching his qbs take thousands of practice snaps. He's the best we got folks! Might as well get behind him because booing isn't going to help but it sure as hell could hurt. An athletes psyche is a real thing and can be fragile. We dont need Speight to start doubting himself.

Joined: 12/01/2010

MGoPoints: 455

SMart WolveFan

September 15th, 2017 at 10:40 AM ^

...the more I think about it this "QB controversy" is the best thing for this team right now.

As much as it annoys Coach to address it, it's still better to have that spotlight locked onto Speight, who obviously has the mental capabilities to ignore the trolls, that way the younger players can work in the shadows. By the time everyone realizes Speight is a pretty good QB the rest of the team will have gotten comfortable around him.

At least we know the fanbase won't ever let Speight get over confident.

Joined: 04/20/2015

MGoPoints: 14699

SMart WolveFan

September 15th, 2017 at 11:44 AM ^

.....especially pro style, have their passing stats go lower after their first 6-9 games because defensive co-ordinators finally have enough video to study, allowing them to see tendencies and scheme against.

The injury comes at the worst time since they needed to start expanding the playbook once D's were figuring them out, but implementing new throws when you're not 100% isn't EZ.

I think the first two games this year have been much more about expanding the playbook and working on things that aren't already known as tendencies; unfortunately, with an inaccurate QB plus inexperienced WRs it can look pretty ugly.

Just hope it gells by Happy Valley because the team may need the best Speight eva to pull that out. I hope that by Wisc. and oSu the Oline and running game are the engine for victories, because that group still has some "things to prove".

Joined: 04/20/2015

MGoPoints: 14699

WNY in Savannah

September 15th, 2017 at 11:31 AM ^

As I said in a reply above, I think the reason there is such divided opinion on this matter in the fanbase is because some people are naturally optimists and some are naturally pessimists.

The optimist sees the Florida game and points to the pass to Eubanks.  The pessimist sees the Florida game and points the the throw to the wide open receiver (after the audible) out of bounds.

The optimist says, "Harbaugh has chosen Speight; he's the best option; what's wrong with you people who are whining?"  The pessimist says, "We're whining because Speight is the best option and he keeps screwing up and it's going to cost Michigan wins."  The optimist says, "He'll improve and he will also get Michigan wins."  And on and on.

It gets debated so much because people have different personalities, but also because this is a sports blog and people like to talk about such things.  It doesn't mean everyone thinks they're smarter than the coaches.  It's just something interesting to talk about.

Joined: 09/18/2013

MGoPoints: 638

Sten Carlson

September 15th, 2017 at 1:11 PM ^

Being selective with ones assessment, or being dissmissive of evidence that contradicts ones agenda, isn't "realism" -- it's disingenuous spinning. Further, you have the benefit of setting the bar as you see fit, and conveniently moving that bar as it suits you, and conveniently never defining where that bar is. Then, to make matters worse, anyone who is "optimistic" you ask them to support their optimism; but, when they do, you (again) conveniently dismiss their support offhand. There's not one Michigan fan saying WS doesn't need to tighten some things up

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: -56

AA Forever

September 15th, 2017 at 2:16 PM ^

The question is whether he will.  Some people are simply saying "he'll be fine" or "HARBAUGH!!!!" and pretending that's evidence of something.  It's not.  And I don't have an "agenda", btw, unless you consider asking people for evidence to support their claims to be an "agenda".  The nerve of me, I know..  My position is that the only "evidence" worth considering will be what Speight actually does on the field.  

Feel free to dispute that.  

 

Joined: 08/14/2016

MGoPoints: 765

Sten Carlson

September 15th, 2017 at 2:28 PM ^

I'll refute that with simple stats. WS has: 1) won more games than he's lost; 2) thrown more completions than incompletions; 3) thrown more TD's than INT's You dont ever post "evidence" of anything save your own doubts about his ability to perform and improve. Then, you smugly crap on anyone who takes the opposite stance, demanding MORE EVIDENCE. It right there above. Your asking for evidence then claiming that the only sufficient evidence are future events that have yet to occur.

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: -56

AA Forever

September 15th, 2017 at 12:06 PM ^

By playing better. If he looks really good (not just "decent") against Air Force and we win resoundingly, the criticism will lessen. If he continues to look meh, and if the team struggles to score and to win, it will intensify. The criticism will never go away, no matter how long or how well he plays. That's life as a starting QB, at any level. Speight needs to be able to cope with that reality.

Joined: 08/14/2016

MGoPoints: 765

AA Forever

September 15th, 2017 at 2:23 PM ^

Play better than he did last year.  Have a big, winning performance against a tough team on the road.  Be the reason we win a game we're not expected to.

Or is that all asking way too much?

And seriously, did you really think that question was going to stump me?

Joined: 08/14/2016

MGoPoints: 765

Sten Carlson

September 15th, 2017 at 2:46 PM ^

Stump you? No, I wasn't trying to stump you (you arrogant prick -- did I say that outloud?) I asked the question so you'd finally put on display what you're looking for from WS. Now, that being said, I agree with all your points. However, where our sentiments diverge, is that you seem to point to the fact that because he's not accomplished those yet, that he never will. Further, I'm not willing to concede that your two criteria are implicitly related to the broad concept of, "improvement." What if he goes 35/40 for 425 yard, 4 TD's and no turnovers vs PSU but the defense craps the bed an we lose? What if all five of his incompletions were throwaways? Has he improved in your eyes? What if he does the same versus OSU? You rail against him over and over proclaiming all the things he's never going to do and that you'll never respect him until he does. We get it dude, you don't like him not Michigan's chances with him. But, at least I hope we can agree that we BOTH hope you're proven spectacularly wrong.

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: -56

AA Forever

September 15th, 2017 at 4:06 PM ^

Is by hurling insults and putting words in my mouth. I "seem to point to the fact"? Tell you what..if you want to know what I actually think, you can do what grown-ups do, and ask me. Or you can invent a silly straw man argument that's nothing like what I've ever claimed, and then do a victory dance as if you've proved something. As far as your questions, on that day when Speight ACTUALLY goes 35-40 with 425 yards and 4 TDs against ANYBODY, you let me know, and we'll talk. Until then, your scenario is not to be taken remotely seriously by anyone.

Joined: 08/14/2016

MGoPoints: 765

Sten Carlson

September 15th, 2017 at 4:40 PM ^

Quit your whining. All the insults I hurl at you are deserved because you're a condescending prick. But, as you said, if you assume that role you should be ready for backlash. I asked you what you actually think, you told me, then I asked a direct follow up question and succinctly expressed how I disagree. You know, discourse. I used that scenario as a means to further understand under what circumstances you'd consider WS improved. But once again, you've trotted out the same tired (pathetic) argument that because you think the scenario is unlikely, and has yet to occur, it could never happen. The criteria you listed are subjective, I'm asking for further illumination. It's pretty clear. You said to concede WS has improved he's got have a big game in an important road game (or something like that). To which I asked, what if he has that big game, yet through no fault of his, they lose. Does that suffice? Your criteria place responsibility solely upon WS for victory or loss, with no possible concession. I wanted to see if you're rational enough to add a caveat or two to that position. Clearly not. By your logic, one can only rationally concede that something can happen once its actually happened, and until that time anyone who believes it could is simply existing on "wishful thinking." Then, to make matters even more irrational, your criteria for that event actually happening is heavily laden with aspects that are beyond the control of the person I question. E.g., a 100 m runner has yet to break 10.5, and until he does you won't believe that he can, but in order to know he can his 4x100 m relay squad has to win a big meet.

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: -56