Can we talk about the offensive line and what this means?

Submitted by wolverine1987 on

When you go through the offensive snowflakes thread you find that 90% of the discussion is around JOK's performance, understandably so. But I have to say that the largest impact this game made on me, beyond the happiness for JOK, was that it appeared to the untrained eye that our o-line is regressing, not progressing. Purdue came into the game with 1.5 sacks- against bad teams, yet there was constant pressure throughout the game. In fact only JOK's feet kept us from disaster a couple of times. If this was Iowa/PSU/OSU fine, you might say those guys are better than our inexperienced guys on the right side. But Purdue objectively has inferior talent on both sides of the ball, and yet: Ulizio continued to get owned. MO was shaky, and the rate of mental busts all over the line looked to me to be the highest so far this year. 

I don't know man, not to debbie downer this win but that was concerning. You guys agree or am I too negative?

Pepper Brooks

September 24th, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^

This is an extreme example of our OL pass coverage breakdown and encapsulates the problems this season. Purdue rushes 4 and we have 6 to block.  Nearly every "mediocre" Purdue DL beats his block; Issac, Cole and Bredeson completely miss the blitzing LB and Ulizio is standing around wondering what to do. 

 

 

TomJ

September 24th, 2017 at 3:48 PM ^

I know Ulizio hasn't been stellar, but I can't fault him on that play. He was riding his man outside, creating a pocket for Speight to step into. The problem was that Speight was being driven backwards by the unblocked rusher. Ulizio was doing his job, pretty well, on that play. 

SeattleWolverine

September 24th, 2017 at 12:17 PM ^

The blitzer who blew up the play was an assignment miss by Isaac (presumably) as he double teams the guy Cole takes while the LB comes free. But the second guy in who injured Speight beat both Onwenu and Ulizio on a double team, which is pretty terrible. 

Catchafire

September 24th, 2017 at 9:55 AM ^

Thank you for this thread. I don't know if they are regressing, but the oline is responsible for that nasty hit on speight. No one blocked that guy getting ready to murder him into the ground. The ironic thing is that jok might be better fit for this type of oline but moving forward we definitely need better protection. Doesn't matter if Jesus is our QB, if the online sucks nothing gets done.

a different Jason

September 24th, 2017 at 9:56 AM ^

Yes, you are too negative. Look at how many times every QB has people in their face. It happens frequently at all levels of football. He mark of a QB is what he does with hands in his face. Every QB can play with nobody within 5 yards of him.

Anchew

September 24th, 2017 at 9:57 AM ^

through our first four games, it appears that the opposing teams have spotted our weaknesses on the right side and speights inability to be mobile. speight also stated in a post game interview that he wasn't setting his feet properly because of the pressure. the opposition is sensing blood and going after it in the form of blitzing. speight and the oline weren't recognizing the pre play pressure and sacks, tackles for loss, and ints or bad throws were happening. its not all of our o line's fault. i feel some of it was in speight. with o'korn stepping in, those negative plays seemed to happen less frequent.

funkywolve

September 24th, 2017 at 10:41 AM ^

I think the fact UM moved the ball with O'Korn is clouding the outlook.  Once O'Korn took over UM still had 13 plays that went for 1 yd or less, and that's not including incompletions.  Those 13 plays are only from the time O'Korn entered until the time UM went up 28-10.

SeattleWolverine

September 24th, 2017 at 11:33 AM ^

Yeah. O'Korn looked better overall, particularly because of his accuracy. And while he is more mobile by a lot, his happy feet tendency is going to get him out of a few situations like that crazy 3rd down pickup; but he's also going to have some plays where he moves and winds up either stepping into a backside rusher and gets hammered, or he's going to roll to the side and get hit by guys who would have otherwise rushed too far up field. Just the nature of his happy feet and in combination with our shoddy pass pro and meh running game it probably means a continuation of the negative plays going forward. Hopefully a little more accuracy in the passing game makes up for that. 

massblue

September 24th, 2017 at 9:58 AM ^

Other teams are finding our weaknesses, including our QB and WR.  They do not double team any WR and that allows them to blitz and bring pressure.  You can bet that the next team is going to pay more attention to our TE and will not bring as much pressure.

go16blue

September 24th, 2017 at 10:08 AM ^

I basically agree with this - the OL isn't getting worse, just overwhelmed. This happens because they are a bad to mediocre OL, and have been for the past 6 years. When we have good WR and decent QB play, we've been able to push opposing safeties back and have some success in both run and pass pro. Now without that, our OL is challenged and is not up to said challenge. So I don't isolate the OL as the only problem - but man, if we had done half as good a job recruiting and developing as we hoped the past few years, maybe they could actually be a *strength*, instead of a unit who plays best when the least is asked of them.

corundum

September 24th, 2017 at 10:25 AM ^

I think the primary weakness being taken advantage of is the play calling. First half play calling especially has been suspect and predictable. We start of running the ball well but then run limited play action. Some of our base plays finally saw constraints in the second half yesterday and some not at all. There was a stretch in the second half where we ran PA passes five plays in a row and O'Korn had great protection. Once the short passes got the back seven on their heels, the run game opened up. Obviously the young OL will get worked when the playcalling is predictable and conservative. It's on the OC to help his unit out with smarter play calling and earlier successful RPSs.

Steve Breaston…

September 24th, 2017 at 9:59 AM ^

Ulizio is a swinging door on pass blocking. His kickstep is non existent and he stands upright to engage at the neck and shoulder pads. It's no wonder that backers are targeting that gap between him and MO and hitting often.

IMO the worst part of this pass offense is the RB blocking. It is absolute garbage. Karan Higdon missed so many but the most inexcusable is Ty Isaac. The guy is 6'2", 225+, and barely lays a shoulder into people. They give ZERO effort and it causes the pocket to collapse. The defense exploits this to the fullest every game and until this is fixed we will constantly see JOK scramble to buy time.

switch26

September 24th, 2017 at 10:00 AM ^

I agree drevno needs to go at this point. We reloaded on defense and it looks like we lost no one from last year's unit. The oline flat out sucks balls and gets worse every game. I have not seen any improvement

evenyoubrutus

September 24th, 2017 at 10:00 AM ^

I saw on Twitter that Runyan came in for Onwenu at some point. Was this permanent or did Onwenu get back in? I think I also saw Brian note that on the sack that knocked Speight out of the game, the breakdown was from Cole and Isaac.

corundum

September 24th, 2017 at 10:30 AM ^

Higdon lacks the vision right now to see where the blitz is coming from and Evans is too small. It's not that the RBs are regressing on the pass pros, it's just that Isaac is the RB with the best skillset when it comes to pass blocking and he's currently limited. I'm sure he will go back to being the starter and primary 3rd down back against MSU after resting up over the bye week.

jdemille9

September 24th, 2017 at 1:16 PM ^

Splitting time to help keep Owenu fresh.. Isaac definitely missed the blitz pick-up, like most of our current RB's seem to do more often than not. THAT is exactly where De'Veon Smith is missed the most, his pass protection and I think that's an overlooked aspect of what is going on this year. Yes, the OL play has been poor but people are forgetting how great at pass pro Smith was.

An Angelo's Addict

September 24th, 2017 at 10:01 AM ^

Agreed. It felt like we haven't had a good offensive line this decade and we are in year three of Harbaugh. It is definitely disappointing and I don't really see any improvements coming in the next couple years which furthers the disappointment

Rabbit21

September 24th, 2017 at 10:01 AM ^

It's the fourth game of the season and we're already primed to panic about the O-line. Probably worth it to get a few more data points before we do the "Panic and Run around Screaming" thing.

Opinion25

September 24th, 2017 at 10:27 AM ^

For both OL and WR, this team has few upperclassman available. JH inherited underperforming but decent upperclassmen and turned the program around. They are now gone, and he has to play many OL & WR 1st and 2nd year players before they would nromally see the field. Look at the depth chart, the future's bright http://mgoblog.com/content/michigan-depth-chart-class-0

Rabbit21

September 24th, 2017 at 10:44 AM ^

How quickly we forget the whirling tornado of suck that was the O-line for the last three years of Hoke's tenure.  The O-line is much better than those units were.  This is a mostly young line with a right side that is basically being thrown into the fire, let's give it some more time to improve before hitting the panic button is all I'm saying, O-lines take time to gel and improve, we're all frustrated with the O-line and have been for years now, unfortunately with the disaster that was the 2013 O-Line class and the trailing off of recruiting in Hoke's last years there just isn't a base of experienced talent to rely on.  We're all sick of waiting for it to get better, but unfortunately thats what we're in for.  May as well grit our teeth and wait a little longer to see what happens.

Mr. Yost

September 24th, 2017 at 10:42 AM ^

When is the appropriate time?

Honest question. Week 6? 8? After a loss?

...I'm just wondering because this feels a lot like people who (basically) say "we're undefeated so you can't complain or panic about anything."

We have areas for improvement and the OL is definitely one of those areas...I don't see what's wrong with talking about it. If they don't get better we're not going to beat teams that are better than the teams we've played.

Rabbit21

September 24th, 2017 at 10:48 AM ^

I just think the O-line needs time to gel and four games is a little too soon is all, I can't give you a timeline as I don't know but I do know that there's no magic bullet here.  I'm concerned, too, but I want to see if things get better through the season as I think there's a good chance that they do.  If it starts getting through the season and the same errors keep happening I'll be right in line with everyone else at Ann Arbor Torch and Pitchfork, I just don't think panicking now is wise or fair.

freelion

September 24th, 2017 at 11:59 AM ^

That's what Speight apologists have been saying for over a year. He's fine and will improve. No he has never been fine and has never improved. The oline is also not fine. It's shaky and there has to be scrutiny on Drevno and Frey if there is no improvement. I think Ulizio is a poor choice and they need to go with Runyan or some other option. The kid is a MAC level talent.

corundum

September 24th, 2017 at 10:38 AM ^

The improvement came when the coaches opened up the offensive playbook and called a better game. When my wife knows what we are about to run on offense in the first half, I guaran-fuckin'-tee the opposing DC has a good idea as well. The first half playcalling was a snooze fest and left the OL vulnerable to run blitzes.

BoCanHam15

September 24th, 2017 at 10:03 AM ^

After a win someone says,"you know what?" We sucked! I cannot believe it. Another thread after we go on the road and win by 18! I was there and to the untrained eye,"you need to get your eye trained!!! Give it a break! D@&$

NashvilleBLUE

September 24th, 2017 at 10:04 AM ^

I’m being serious with this question. With our defense being as absurdly dominant as it is, how is our offense getting any quality reps in practice? They have to be getting killed on almost every single play because we are struggling to block against Purdue I can only imagine what Don brown is doing to these guys in practice.

Toby Flenderson

September 24th, 2017 at 10:06 AM ^

If Jim Harbaugh can let D.J  Durkin walk after a poor defensive performance against OSU, and go out and hire the best DC in Don Brown, why can't harbaugh cut the ties with Tim Drevno, who has clearly underperformed in his job as OL coach/OC?

Opinion25

September 24th, 2017 at 10:08 AM ^

I think our OL ranked ~100th in experience/youth. For this season, it might mean JH needs to do something he hates--be a pass 1st offense. Also, in Brian's UFR, the running problems have not all been on OL, w/ a fair amt of RPS and missed cuts in there. I do think we need two of our talented freshman tackles to be ready to start next season.