Breaking: Gov. Whitmer lifts MI stay at home order
Just saw this pop up on Twitter. Be safe everyone. Peace to all as well.
https://twitter.com/midmichigannow/status/1267518156953747457?s=21
There are a ton of factors that are not scientific that would cause her to make a decision she didn't want to.
1. The Owosso barber appealed to the MI Supreme Court and it could have fast tracked an adverse legal decision that forced her to do it on someone else's terms.
2. If there is no federal $$ coming for continuing enhanced unemployment or filling budget holes, the lockdown is untenable for economic reasons.
3. People are ignoring it anyway or going out of state, so we might be hurting ourselves economically with marginal health improvement.
edit: spelling
Except that per your #1, barbers are still locked down "indefinitely."
My wife just told me she's moving the entire state into stage 4, and yes summer camps for kids are open. She is sometimes full of shit though (I do love her dearly).
Thank you.
You're married to the Governor?
Dr Mallory specializes in telling bad jokes about his wife and pronouns with missing antecedents.
And sleeping on the couch I’m sure.
It is weird, it sounds like we are moving to “phase 4,” but restaurants are not in that phase, they are in phase 5.
It sounds like she may just be kind of scrapping the phases and issuing something new.
This is undoubtedly good news for live K-12 though, which has become the gigantic elephant in the room.
Phase 4. Hopes to be in phase 5 by July for the K-12 schools concern above.
AAPS released a general plan last week saying that they will be hybrid of in person and online and will only be operating at 25-50% capacity until we are in Phase 6 (which is post Pandemic). I think most schools will do something similar to this - West Bloomfield release a similar plan a few weeks ago.
A lot will depend on parent surveys in districts. I expect some modified form of instruction. It’s darn near impossible to social distance in school at full capacity
thankfully in most k-12 settings none of the students/staff are truly high risk. At 30 years and out most staff are the mid 50s some cling into the early '60s. Hopefully, by fall there will be enough options available to make it possible for some form of normal. I'd guess until 'flu' season is over, hybrid learning with all-out digital distance learning is on the cusp at any moment. Being realistic, once the flu season hits it may be Katie bar the doors. Once people start coughing, sneezing, and running fevers they won't sustain in-person class long. Maybe it will even cause some to think twice before sending kids to school looking like death warmed over only to vomit on the bus or in the classroom for any number of illnesses.
Screw that. Two days a week of school for the foreseeable future (until we have a vaccine?) is not going to work. First of all social distancing among k-12 kids, particularly k-5, is not possible even with 25% or 50% capacity. They are not going to go about their day properly wearing mask and maintaining distance in the school. They are not trained medical professional and we can’t expect them to act like it. When the kids do not practice the correct procedures what are we going to do? Suspend them, lock them in isolation rooms? Are we really going to come down hard on the first grader who was too close to their friend and/or did not have their mask on right?
You think your typical high school kid is not going to hang out with a bunch of friends at school or on the way to and from school.
Also, is the idea of keeping desk six feet apart even going to have an effect? Maybe for some short period of time but does it really matter if there are 15 kids in a room or 30 if they are in there for 6 hours? If you have a fully infectious kid in a classroom for six hours with 14 other kids, they are going to spread it. The rest of the class would need to be practicing full infectious disease protocols to prevent spread. Hell, even nurses and doctors don’t sit in a room with an infected person for 6 hours strait.
This half capacity idea is bullshit. How do the public health professionals recommending this crap not see that? Do they really think they are offering a workable plan here? Also are they even considering the other effects of their (highly unlikely to work) plan. 60% of parents both work. Who the hell do they think will be watching these kids when they are home 2 or 3 school days a week? Here is a hint. Their Grandparents – the people most a risk from this whole thing. So, let’s expose our kids to this with some bullshit social distancing plan that won’t work and then send them over to grandma’s place a few times a week.
You have to open schools back up. You have to expand before and after school care to limit the need for childcare from older adults. You also have to identify and protect school staff most at risk. These half time plans provide our kids with much less education, don’t solve the problems that no school creates for our economy and society, and probably increase the overall risk to at risk populations. Why the hell can’t public health and school leadership see this?
They likely can see it. They don’t see their job as to do what’s best for the kids, their job is to limit their liability.
Double post. Nothing to see here. Move along.
"The first thing we do. We must kill all the lawyers,"
Henry VI. Part 2. 500 plus years ago. Nothing is new under the sun.
I couldn’t agree more with this post as a teacher and someone who argued with bosses over a week before we got let out that we needed a plan and was met with “You’re nuts”
Whatever is decided on with schools it’s going to be a cluster and I’m sure we will get blamed with why it is
I am already on the war path about this. My district just keeps sending out messages about the development of a plan that includes potentially everything under the sun. The latest promise is the end of June for a plan – we will see. I have already managed to get a state board of education member on the phone about it and sent e-mails to pretty much every elected representative I have. Unfortunately, we are going to need parents to push back pretty hard against unworkable plans that are more about protecting school/government leadership as opposed to educating our kids.
Trick for me is that my wife works for the district, so I have to be a little careful at the local level to not appear to be too much of a troublemaker. Also, I am not blaming the teachers for any of this. They are generally doing their best in an impossible situation. The incompetence here is all well above their pay grade.
I have a child in pre-school and was sent a survey via email that was, frankly, embarrassing. Basically asking if I was OK with a 3-yr old wearing a face mask and having to sit 6 feet apart from friends during snack time. Stuff like that. Not that I would be opposed to those protocols if the science actually pointed to that as an impactful way to slow the community spread (it doesn’t appear to, but for the record I said I was fine with it on the survey), but it’s like someone that’s never actually been around a 3-Yr old came up with that plan. How long do they expect those masks to stay on? If anything, there will be more hand to face touching as a result.
I think in general, as long as we aren’t at a point of wide community spread, having school’s open makes sense, but it is hardly settled science that kids can’t be major spreaders of covid.
“In one study, published last week in the journal Science, a team analyzed data from two cities in China — Wuhan, where the virus first emerged, and Shanghai — and found that children were about a third as susceptible to coronavirusinfection as adults were. But when schools were open, they found, children had about three times as many contacts as adults, and three times as many opportunities to become infected, essentially evening out their risk.“
If you have a second wave and you are in an area where hospitals may soon become overwhelmed, closing schools is an potion I think you’d still consider, not be because of the direct risk to kids, but because of the risk to your medical infrastructure.
I definitely agree it’s not settled science. I linked one of many references (I figured the Netherlands would have some credibility) - this article has several links. The study you linked seems to be a modeling study looking at estimating the number of contacts people make with other people during different scenarios. From what I can see they assumed that child to child transmission is prevalent. They didn’t actually study the level or probability of infectious transmission. Am I missing something? It seems fairly obvious that if kids are in school they will come into contact with other humans more frequently, but that doesn’t really answer the question.
Maybe I misunderstood, but I read the “about a third as susceptible to coronavirusinfection as adults were“ to mean that they were 1/3rd as likely to get it for any given contact but that was offset by 3 times as much contact on average.
I mostly responded because I thought your statement quoted below is actually stronger than what the current science says. My quick survey suggested this was still very much an open question.
‘Not that I would be opposed to those protocols if the science actually pointed to that as an impactful way to slow the community spread (it doesn’t appear to,‘
Fair. I did not mean it to come across that way, just that the body of work that I’ve seen is moving in that direction. To be clear, part of my statement “it doesn’t appear to” is also biased by my pessimism that these policies will be effectively implemented (for example, what % of 3-7 yr olds will properly wear a mask covering nose and mouth all day?).
I’m very interested in new studies on this topic, and I think your statement is the most accurate, “it is not settled”. That said, I don’t think we can wait for it to be settled to make a decision on a schools and just assuming child-to-child transmission is the same as for adults (despite the scientific evidence otherwise) seems like a bad way to proceed.
next up - Football!
Now we need protesters to show up at the capital demanding to lock things back down so that we can complete the circle of life and all become the Lion King.
For those interested in more details and not a character limit tweet, this from DetNews:
"Gov. Gretchen Whitmer is partially lifting Michigan's stay-at-home order and allowing restaurants to reopen next week for dine-in service with restrictions, according to the Associated Press."
Casinos, salons and gyms will remain closed.
Thanks for the clarification. Vital information not included by the OP.
Yeah, it may have come out more snarky than needed. I just don't want people getting their hopes up (like my wife who desperately needs to get to a salon).
You think SHE does, I haven't had a haircut, other than self-trimming around my ears, sideburns and neck, since just before Christmas. My 90% gray hair is now longer than anytime in the last 40 years.
Ponytail, here I come!
I was getting psyched to hit the gym...oh well...
Sucks for you guys about the gyms. Venture down to Ohio where we're getting swoll AF. GAINZ SEAZUNNN
The Game over the last few years has already looked like us vs the Monstars, their advantage with the gyms open is going to make it worse
Re: salons
Is it still a blanket closure? There were a ton of one person shops in the small town I grew up in. Seems like seeing one person at a time would lower exposure to a more acceptable level.
Exactly. And both wear a mask. Figured that out in April.
Practice time!
Salons, gyms still remain closed.
Non appointment retail will open, in person dining will open next week, pools will open soon too as well.
Maybe they could train the Hooters girls to cut hair while the chicken wings are in the deep fryer.
from whitmer's donations office:
Subject: Governor Whitmer to rescind Stay at Home Order
Good Afternoon Folks-
I wanted to reach out to let you know that in Governor Whitmer's 3:00pm press conference she will be announcing that she is rescinding the Stay at Home Order that was supposed to go through June 12th. This means that the rest of the state will begin carefully moving into Stage 4 of the Safe Start Plan and will occur in stages. However, local leaders will still have the ability to put more strict measures in place if needed.
Effective immediately
Most things are permitted unless otherwise noted some key things include:
-Groups of 100 or less may gather outside, while still practicing safe social distancing
-Law offices may return to work
Thursday, June 4th:
-Retailers may begin to reopen with capacity limits
Monday, June 8th:
-Restaurants, bars, and children's camps may begin to reopen with capacity limits for both indoor and outdoor service
Some things that will remain closed until further notice include: theaters, gym/fitness centers, hair salons and barbers, spas, casinos, and bowling alleys. If something is not listed in the executive order assume that sector may reopen.
As a follow up to this email the Executive Order when finalized will be sent out to all of you as well.
It is weird though, restaurants aren’t even included in Phase 4 I don’t think.
It's almost like they're making it up as they go along...
No kidding.
It's "truth over facts" in action.
Something wrong with being flexible?
How can you possibly be flexible when being guided by the dual gods of "data" and "science"? Let's see all the data and science suggesting that the previous actions where correct and that the new course is now justified, but wasn't just one short week ago.
That's going to be pretty hard to do, when they can't even figure out how many people died in nursing homes.
My favorite science from the governor:
April 10th: Golf spreads COVID19
April 24th: Golf doesn't spread COVID19
Must have been a hell of a trial.
You listen to the experts, data changes/improves. The stay at home order worked, time to loosen restrictions. Only a moron couldn’t see this coming...
Only a moron can't see the truth behind the BS that they're fed.
It is so hard to figure out what your actual position is other than that you don’t like Whitmer:
1. Unhappy that things are not opening up quickly enough because it is not weighing properly weighing all of the costs and benefits
2. Unhappy that things are opening up because governor is being inconsistent with rationale for keeping things closed (which based on #1, you didn’t agree with in the first place).
Would it have been better for her to keep things closed another few days while writing a rationale for her change in position that you would find acceptable?
Consistency and truth. That's what we should all want out of every public servant.
You are really demanding!