The Athletic: How Kentucky has outhustled Michigan for Ohio recruits

Submitted by Communist Football on February 12th, 2020 at 12:09 PM

In a lengthy profile of Kentucky recruiting coordinator Vince Marrow ($), who Mel Tucker is reportedly trying to bring to Michigan State, Ari Wasserman (The Athletic's OSU beat writer) describes how Kentucky has focused on taking OSU's Ohio leftovers away from Big Ten schools like Michigan. Michigan is behind not only OSU, but also Kentucky, ND, and MSU in recruiting 4- and 5-star prospects from Ohio:

Ohio always has been a main source of Big Ten talent, but a lot of that talent now is headed to Kentucky. UK identified the niche and attacked it, using Ohio-born coaches.

In the past seven recruiting cycles (2014-20), there were 93 four- and five-star prospects in Ohio. Ohio State predictably signed the most (38), followed by Kentucky (10), Notre Dame (eight), Michigan State (seven) and Michigan (five); the rest of the Big Ten has signed five total. That means Kentucky has signed almost 10 percent of the blue-chip prospects in Ohio in that span.

That’s a stark difference from what was happening before Stoops got to UK. In the 2009-2013 classes, there were 88 four- and five-star players in Ohio — and UK signed two. Ohio State (39) and Michigan (17) were the dominant schools.

Sense the pattern? Before Stoops and Marrow arrived at Kentucky, the Wildcats weren’t a factor in Ohio. Since Stoops and Marrow brought Kentucky into Ohio, the Wildcats have signed more blue-chip Ohio prospects than anybody outside of OSU. Not only that, Kentucky has signed more total Ohio prospects (47, one more than Michigan State) than any Big Ten school not named Ohio State...

Michigan, meanwhile, barely even attempts to recruit Ohio anymore even though the state has provided the Wolverines some of their best players over the years. The reason for these things happening? Marrow slips back into his chair and grins.

“The only team we have to track in Ohio is Ohio State because if they want an Ohio kid and recruit him the right way from the beginning, they are likely going to get them. But every other team, I’m not worried about them because we have beaten all of them for recruits in Ohio,” Marrow said, “What’s going on at other schools? I’m not going to say anything. You can come up with your own conclusion by what you see in the numbers. The proof is in the pudding.”

Kentucky is willing to take prospects that Michigan won't take—sure—and Kentucky may also be doing below-board things. But I'm curious to know how much Michigan is preemptively conceding these recruits to other schools.

Communist Football

February 12th, 2020 at 12:16 PM ^

One example could be Justin Rogers, the top-100 Michigan OG who was offered by Michigan but chose Kentucky. (Some Michigan types claim that Michigan soured on Rogers after offering him; other Michigan types claim that Rogers sold himself to the highest bidder.) Though he’s a MI product not an OH one.

But a simpler answer may be the OH kids that end up at Notre Dame, all of whom should meet Michigan's admissions standards, and ND is comparably as clean as Michigan in its recruiting conduct.

As the article states, there has been a precipitous decline in the number of 4- and 5- star kids Michigan has pulled out of Ohio. That in alone should tell you that there are more kids that Michigan would take that it’s not getting. 

Communist Football

February 12th, 2020 at 4:31 PM ^

The question was about guys that Kentucky is taking that Michigan wants. I cited Justin Rogers as an example of someone Kentucky took that Michigan wanted (albeit not from Ohio). As W from Iowa states, that Kentucky could beat Michigan for an in-state recruit is arguably worse, though some argue that Rogers is not that example due to bribes and/or academics.

Squash34

February 13th, 2020 at 1:37 AM ^

The question was about guys that Kentucky is taking that Michigan wants. 

That was not what the  comment you replied to was saying. It said the article, about Kentucky beating Michigan head to head for Ohio recruits, is meaningless without examples. 

You have an example of a Michigan kid that Michigan stopped recruiting long before he signed with UK. 

MGoStrength

February 12th, 2020 at 2:04 PM ^

Sad, we tend to say that for a lot of the highly ranked kids that we do not get.

It's not sad.  It's human nature.  It's survival.  We remember the bad more than the good in many things in life that involve emotions or pain because it's a protective mechanism for survival.  There are something like three times as many words for negative emotions as positive ones in the English language.

It's hard to say the cause because more often that not kids just don't pan out.  Living up to a 5-star recruiting profile is difficult.  But, more often than not highly ranked kids with unusual recruitments don't live up to the hype.  Is it the kind of kid that has an unusual recruitment or just the fact that it's difficult to live up to the hype?  I'm not sure, but I still stand behind my hunch whatever the cause.  I don't mind being the pessimist.  

wolve1972

February 12th, 2020 at 4:08 PM ^

Agree about Rogers not living up to expectations. And keep in mind, it just wasn't UM. Schools like Bama, Clemson, OSU and Georgia all offered Rogers early in the process and backed away.  When Rogers committed to Kentucky, none of those boards made hardly a mention of it.  So it wasn't like UM got beat out for the kid.

Tuebor

February 12th, 2020 at 2:14 PM ^

But with ND there is a Catholic factor to consider so it isn't really a fair comparison. 

 

To me we should be doing better than MSU with Ohio blue chips.  If MSU wants to fill their roster with 3 stars from Ohio so be it, I won't lose sleep over that.  But we shouldn't be trailing MSU when it comes to 4 and 5 star Ohio recruits.

energyblue1

February 12th, 2020 at 2:33 PM ^

To Kentucky it is the same rather they recruit Michigan or Ohio.  Kentucky cannot beat sec teams in sec country for big recruits.  So they went north to Ohio and Michigan to make up the difference. 

2020 4*DT Justin Rogers, they were in on him for several years.  Michigan not until later and it was already over.  That is a problem.  Michigan needs to be ahead on players in state.  Also 3* OT Deondre Bufford and 3* WR Earnest Sanders.

2018 4*OG Marquan McCall, 3* S Deandre Square

 

So they aren't taking their pickings but they have won a few important battles.  Harbaugh and company have clearly not taken as many ohio recruits and lost a few in state that my personal thought isn't bad overall but needs some attention.  And not so much Kentucky as much as the overall when Logan Brown/Devonte Dobbs, Anthony Bradford and Julian Barnett went to other schools from in state.  Granted two went to msu..  and overall we had very good classes with equal or greater rated talent. 

I agree with others, I think UK has hurt Msu/indiana/Wisconsin/Purdue and others far more than Michigan or PennSt.  And the comments are a bit funny as well from their coaches.  They have landed one or two top ten Ohio recruits, Lynn Bowden and can't think if they landed another and that was due to off field issues.  Most of their recruits are in the 15-40 range low 4* to 3* recruits. 

samsoccer7

February 12th, 2020 at 12:51 PM ^

I think the question is who could we have recruited that we didn’t to ultimately have them end up at Kentucky. We will never know of course. But effort is half the battle, maybe more in recruiting, and it seems like we’ve conceded Ohio. That speaks to the recruiting leadership and with so much weight being put on assistants, maybe they don’t have the bandwidth to recruit in Ohio.

Gentleman Squirrels

February 12th, 2020 at 1:07 PM ^

Because Hoke emphasized local recruiting while Harbaugh has at different times focused on NJ, Illinois, Georgia, Florida, Cali, Texas, which are arguably more talent rich states. You know that Ohio is going to get the top talent in Ohio because of the history that Tressel and Meyer established. After that you’re fighting teams for talent that OSU doesn’t want. It isn’t like the days of Bo and Carr where Michigan is actually getting the top talent of Ohio.

Gentleman Squirrels

February 12th, 2020 at 1:18 PM ^

Does it though? How are you competing with them if they don’t even want that player in the first place? Michigan fought for Zach Harrison like crazy 2 cycles ago. They spent a ton of energy to get him and ultimately still failed. This year Michigan basically had their class done by July and could redirect their sources to more productive fields.

Bodogblog

February 12th, 2020 at 3:32 PM ^

If we're wasting time trying to pull elite recruits that OSU is going to get anyways, we'll miss guys in other regions.  

The entire Ohio recruiting thing is a red herring.  You want elite players no matter where they come from. 

And people who say "they play harder in the rivalry because they get it" are just old dudes trying to explain a world they don't understand.  These are elite athletes, they are insanely competitive, they work all year - they absolutely give 100% of what they have in big games to win.  They won't try harder because they're from Ohio because there is no harder to give. 

Maize and Blue AF

February 12th, 2020 at 6:38 PM ^

OSU Players: We set aside practice time for Michigan every day.

UofM Players: It's just another game.

 

I wouldn't have to look at the last 20 years of results to know which team has been dominating the series.

First, elite athlete or not, they are still 18-22 year olds. If someone told you you've got the emotional stability of a teenager, would you consider that a compliment?  We assume these players are fully grown adults, capable of compartmentalizing their emotions in a professional manner, when (in fact) many of these kids still haven't learned not to mix darks and lights in the washing machine.  I'm not saying that to slight them, but to point out that we do an awful lot of projecting on these athletes, who are still trying to learn how to be adults.

 

Secondly, never underestimate the abilities of players looking to prove everyone wrong.  Many of MSU's best players wanted to get into UofM, but did not get the chance.  These are the guys who will always lay it all on the line on gameday.  Why shouldn't we be giving more OH prospects a chance to stick it to the school that spurned them.  It's not like they're subpar athletes, and we wouldn't have to compromise our efforts for top tier recruits elsewhere to do this.  I believe you're correct that we're wasting too much time and effort trying to sway the very top OH kids (who are already virtual locks to OSU), when we could be focusing on the other sixty-something 4*'s from OH with chips on their shoulders.  Say what you will about Dantonino, but one of the ways he became the all-time winningest coach in MSU history was by exploiting the "chip on your shoulder" mentality with a bunch of 2 and 3* recruits.  That worked out pretty well for him.  It'd be interesting to see what that line of thinking could accomplish with 4* talent in Ann Arbor.

 

Reading this article just makes me think we really should have gone hard after Marrow as an assistant, because he gets it.

wolve1972

February 12th, 2020 at 4:23 PM ^

For the most part, that's true. The only recruits in the last 10 years or so that OSU went after really  hard and lost out on were OL Eichenberg  and Kramer to ND which was basically the Catholic connection  and  Carman to Clemson.  I believe they got everybody else that they really wanted in Ohio and put a major effort into. Plus, keep in mind, 2020 was considered the weakest Ohio HS talent year in maybe a decade or so. 2021 though is back to a strong one so we might want to take a look at some of those 2nd tier Ohio recruits which are still very good

The Homie J

February 12th, 2020 at 1:42 PM ^

Yup, remember when we had Zach Harrison on the precipice of commiting before Urban left and Day put on the full court press following the beatdown in Columbus?  That's the kind thing that use to go our way and made a HUGE difference in The Game.  I'm not saying we need Ohio kids, but that used to a path to success and I'm sure we could make it happen again and help reverse the negative trend

Maison Bleue

February 12th, 2020 at 1:28 PM ^

Because Michigan recruits more nationally than they did 10 years ago. They go after who they want no matter where they live and Kentucky ain’t signing a bunch of guys Michigan wanted from Ohio. OSU is, but Kentucky sure isn’t and MSU won’t be either, with or without Vince Fucking Morrow or whatever his name is.

samsoccer7

February 12th, 2020 at 2:58 PM ^

To be clear I wasn’t making excuses. I think it’s an indictment of the program to some extent. I remember Urban said he was gonna recruit nationally but he still got the cream from Ohio. We need to fight for good players around the country including Ohio. I think recruiting in general is not a well oiled machine and we need to do better.

The Baughz

February 12th, 2020 at 12:18 PM ^

Well Michigan’s class is routinely in the top 10. Where is UKs?

UK got Lynn Bowden bc neither UM or OSU would take him bc of off the field issues/grades.

I would like UM to get more Ohio kids, but this doesn’t seem like UM is conceding anything. Sure maybe there needs to be more of a focus, but UK is getting some kids that are/might be considered high risk for UM.

 

TheCube

February 12th, 2020 at 12:21 PM ^

Harbaugh tried to hire Marrow how many times now? The dude doesn’t want to work for Harbaugh/Michigan. 
 

If Tucker pulls him to MSU, then oh well. It’s not like Michigan cares about Ohio recruiting anymore anyway as evidenced by the lack of croots from said state over the past couple cycles.

I’m sure it hurts M when it comes to the Game bc the intensity from having regional players only magnifies the importance of it but OSU is so many stratospheres above Michigan now who cares. 
 

As long as M doesn’t let Little Brother creep back into relevance I’m good. 
 

More basketball articles please. Outside of MSU buffoonery, it’s depressing to think about M football.