5 Big Ten athletes with myocarditis, potentially related to covid 19
Scary stuff for young athletes to be dealing with. Hopefully these are short term issues.
August 11th, 2020 at 1:53 PM ^
No one is forcing anyone to do something they don't want to do
August 10th, 2020 at 11:20 PM ^
Between concussions, CTE, heat stroke and severe muscular skeletal injuries, it seems that playing football is still much more hazardous to a young person's health than Covid
People can keep saying this, but I haven’t seen anyone quantify that it’s true. you’re just throwing something out there as if it’s the case without any clue.
Please tally up all the heat stokes, deaths, and paralyzations that have occurred in the last 10 years of college football then let’s compare the rates appropriately (Let’s leave concussions out of it because it’ll be harder to quantify and we don’t have solid numbers on long term effects of Covid). Those things are incredibly rare, although they are tragic and make headlines so they are more in the forefront of people’s minds. You’ve probably seen a story about a serious football injury on college game day, you’ve never seen a story about a covid death of a 20 year old.
If this really is the case then let’s compare the numbers. Until that’s done, everyone with this same line is talking out of their ass.
August 11th, 2020 at 11:12 AM ^
Are you THAT ignorant to the risks Football players take?
I'll take your challenge, and challenge you back: Please tally up all the strokes, deaths, and paralyzations that have occurred from COVID for athletes.
I'll wait.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:30 PM ^
5? There's something like 10,000 student athletes in the B10. That's 0.05%. Guessing you're not a STEM major.
These poorly considered, knee jerk reactions don't exactly address of how 105 football players are going to have any meaningful impact on campus viral spread in a community of 40-50k students. Not to mention, college football players have a lot more to lose by getting the virus and shutting down their team than the average frat boy. No wonder Harbaugh's boys have done so well.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:33 PM ^
0.05% that we know of.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:36 PM ^
Athletes have been diagnosed with myocarditis before. In the article, we aren't told how much this compares to a typical year, or whether it's linked to Covid. We're just told that it's "potentially caused by viral infections." Nick Bromberg gives himself a lot of rope there.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:31 PM ^
I mean the virus kills cells. That's literally what it does.
Young and healthy people can handle cell death better than old and sickly people, but the virus is still killing their cells while they're infected.
August 11th, 2020 at 11:15 AM ^
My point exactly, and covered by scientific links:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199677/ (TL;DR - ANY Coronavirus EVER can do the same)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6645850/ (TL;DR - ANY similar Respiratory disease EVER can do the same)
But what are facts, when you have virtue signaling?
August 10th, 2020 at 10:12 PM ^
Tell that to Shelley Meyer!
August 11th, 2020 at 2:00 AM ^
Do you think they will be any safer not playing football? I wonder how many B1G non athlete students may have caught COVID, recovered to a point but also have developed myocarditis? We will probably never know this number.
August 10th, 2020 at 8:53 PM ^
Aaaannnnddddd we have the reason for the pessimism, the progression to padded practices being stopped, and all of these meetings. IF all of this is true, then Iowa and Nebraska should be ashamed of themselves.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:07 PM ^
yep, all makes sense now
August 10th, 2020 at 10:01 PM ^
IF all of this is true, then Iowa and Nebraska should be ashamed of themselves.
What is "all of this"?
The athletes having myocarditis? That's presumably true, since the article reports it.
But myocarditis can have a variety of origins, so it's often difficult to pinpoint the specific cause. And it does, in fact, often strike younger people. This article is clearly trying to connect the dots between these cases and COVID, but that's not that easy to prove, and even if we could, how could we know that playing sports caused them to be infected?
August 11th, 2020 at 12:22 AM ^
Yeah I wouldn’t consider Yahoo a great source. Take the article with a grain of salt. Here are a list of viruses per the Mayo Clinic that can lead to Myocarditis.
Many viruses are commonly associated with myocarditis, including the viruses that cause the common cold (adenovirus); COVID-19; hepatitis B and C; parvovirus, which causes a mild rash, usually in children (fifth disease); and herpes simplex virus.
Gastrointestinal infections (echoviruses), mononucleosis (Epstein-Barr virus) and German measles (rubella) also can cause myocarditis. It's also common in people with HIV, the virus that causes AIDS.
August 10th, 2020 at 8:55 PM ^
A new study came out a few weeks ago saying that around 78% of people who recover from Covid developed some sort of heart damage or abnormality. We don't know how this damage will effect people short or long term. This is the non lethal effects of the virus. It's not some joke
August 10th, 2020 at 9:00 PM ^
This is what scares me the most. We canceled our kids daycare(not schooled aged yet) . They are staying home. There’s no right answer right now but the anxiety and fear sucks.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:08 PM ^
Same. I have no idea what the absolute right thing is, but if I’m wrong this year, I can live with that.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:25 PM ^
August 10th, 2020 at 9:29 PM ^
What the fuck are you talking about?
"In this cohort study including 100 patients recently recovered from COVID-19 identified from a COVID-19 test center, cardiac magnetic resonance imaging revealed cardiac involvement in 78 patients (78%) and ongoing myocardial inflammation in 60 patients (60%)"
EDIT: the abstract I quoted above is actually a bit misleading (but not to the level the above poster is suggesting). Here is the full recruitment methodology for those who care: "his is a prospective observational cohort study of 100 patients diagnosed with severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 by reverse transcription–polymerase chain reaction on swab test of the upper respiratory tract who fulfilled inclusion criteria for this CMR investigation. This study followed the Strengthening the Reporting of Observational Studies in Epidemiology (STROBE) reporting guideline (eFigure in the Supplement). Participants were identified from the University Hospital Frankfurt COVID-19 Registry, covering for the area of the State of Hesse, Germany, and were recruited between April and June 2020. All participants were considered eligible after a minimum of 2 weeks from the original diagnosis if they had resolution of respiratory symptoms and negative results on a swab test at the end of the isolation period. Patients recently recovered from COVID-19 referred for a clinical CMR due to active cardiac symptoms were not included in this analysis."
August 10th, 2020 at 9:32 PM ^
Acute respiratory distress syndrome! ARDS YOU IDIOT IS NOT COVID. A very small fraction of COVID patients will get ARDS. Nearly all ARDS patients get intubated. Not all covid patients get intubated. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS I AM SAYING. Come at my MD ill go toe to toe with your GRD any fucking day.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:34 PM ^
Lol you're not an MD.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:40 PM ^
Do you know what SARS-covid-2 stands for?
August 11th, 2020 at 8:51 AM ^
I mean, you should at least know what the virus is called... SARS-CoV-2.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:32 PM ^
You may be a "MD," but if you don't know how ARDS, COVID-19, and "Severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2" are related (and different), I don't think those two letters mean "Medical Doctor."
August 11th, 2020 at 8:40 AM ^
Maybe you should stay in your own lane from now on?
He's a podiatrist.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:28 PM ^
It's an overstatement to say "78% of people." The study included inflected patients ages 45-53 years old. This virus appears to be affecting people differently by age, and this study only included those sick enough to require a hospital visit, which is a small percentage of all positive cases. I'm glad researchers are studying all angles of this disease and people should read up as much as they can, but there is no need to provoke fear for every negative thing we hear, especially when the positive developments don't get nearly the same media coverage.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:40 PM ^
Direct quote from the study: "Our study has limitations. The findings are not validated for the use in pediatric patients 18 years and younger. They also do not represent patients during acute COVID-19 infection or those who are completely asymptomatic with COVID-19."
So no, it does not say anything about truly asymptomatic cases for which estimates are as high as 40% of total cases. https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/08/08/asymptomatic-coronavirus-covid/
It's amazing how often peer reviewed science is getting abused on the internet to support arguments the authors weren't claiming from both sides. Of course the anti-maskers are more visible, but many people who claim to be advocating for science, presumably on the left, don't have a goddamn clue what they are talking about. Sounds good though, right?
August 10th, 2020 at 9:53 PM ^
If I've learned anything during this pandemic, it is that our country's scientific literacy is even worse than I thought. Nuance and limitations are lost on people. And I say that as someone who doesn't think schools should be reopening in person.
August 11th, 2020 at 10:38 AM ^
I'm working on it dammit!
Check back in five years when my high school students hit adult society.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:43 PM ^
Hi actual doctor here. COVID is known to cause an acute inflammatory myocarditis in patients regardless of age. Many of these pts need to be put on ECMO for days-weeks in order to survive. It wouldn't surprise me at all if this is what's happening with these athletes.
Here is a very recent case study from Mass Gen w/ a 44 yo female who got this.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMcpc2004975
August 10th, 2020 at 10:18 PM ^
What took you so long? Medical degrees were spreading faster than the virus itself around here before you showed up.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:28 PM ^
Quick question Cube or for any doc or expert that can answer.
Covid is definitely the triggering cause here? Or is it possible there is a high correlation across both and something like blood-type, genetic makeup, other immune deficiency, respiratory or circulatory issues get triggered from the Covid, eventually leading to the acute inflammatory myocarditis?
Just curious from a knowledge standpoint - like if they understand the more detailed path and causations here yet, or it's still a higher level analysis at this point.
August 11th, 2020 at 11:27 AM ^
Bo - as documented above - even the COMMON COLD can cause myocarditis...and does. Every year.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7199677/ (TL;DR - ANY Coronavirus EVER can do the same)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6645850/ (TL;DR - ANY similar Respiratory disease EVER can do the same)
August 11th, 2020 at 5:20 PM ^
Actually that is incorrect. The type of inflammatory process here is histologically different from prior types we’ve already seen. Try again Trump.
August 11th, 2020 at 6:14 PM ^
National Institute of Health would disagree with you, fraud.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:45 PM ^
Oh sure, you’re a real doctor, that’s great, but my friend Carl in Facebook sounded pretty smart back when I knew him in elementary school, he even came in 11th place in the spelling Bee, and Carl has some interesting theories on medicine. So he’s just asking the questions, he deserves equal time.
When are people going to start only listening to experts in this?
August 10th, 2020 at 10:53 PM ^
And Carl stayed at a Holiday Inn!
August 11th, 2020 at 11:25 AM ^
Hi Doctor Cube!
Please also follow-up with the fact that ANY virus like this can also cause Myocarditis?
Even the "common cold"?
August 11th, 2020 at 5:25 PM ^
Not all myocarditis is the same in etiology as the NEJM mentions. Try again Trump.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:20 PM ^
I think it's important to distinguish that 78% having MRI findings suggestive of cardiac inflammation is not the same as 78% having symptomatic heart disease from Covid. It's definitely not good, but not as bad as it was presented in this post.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:00 PM ^
That’s fucking horrifying. I want sports and everything like the rest of the world, but not a chance I’m ok with it with this kind of stuff going on.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:08 PM ^
"It's just like the flu."
August 10th, 2020 at 9:13 PM ^
Fuck those morons. I hate selfish and ignorant people. They've literally killed people with their stupidity.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:22 PM ^
J, freelion, and the rest should be here shortly to say just that. They'll suggest that the flu causes myocarditis at an equal frequency. "Do your own research."
On-topic, some of the recent findings on T-cell-based immunity are tantalizing.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:00 PM ^
"J." won't be here, as he pushed the envelope a little too far and once too often and was sent to Bolivia today.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:32 PM ^
It is what it is.
August 10th, 2020 at 10:51 PM ^
One of my favorites!
August 10th, 2020 at 10:36 PM ^
I hear La Paz is nice this time of year.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:16 PM ^
Yeah, I'm still angry about psu eye gouge on Shea with no repercussions.
If there's college football -- you mean to tell me some staee, psu, or osu player won't 'spit on/at/in' our QB's or players at the bottom of a goal line pile up? How do refs deal with that? Schools? Lawyers?
I can not still believe that psu did not PAY MONEY to Shea Patterson for eye gouge.
That was ridiculous. On replay video too! Proof!
I want football -- but, like.... lives and stuff.
What a world we are in.
Go Blue.
August 10th, 2020 at 9:18 PM ^
After reading this, I see no reason to resume college sports until much more is known about the long term cardiovascular effects of Covid-19.
That's some serious stuff they're talking about.