The Trouble with Transfers - Portal Issues

Submitted by XM - Mt 1822 on December 18th, 2022 at 7:06 PM

Mates,

Michigan has been the benefactor of what seems like a wealth of excellent news via the Transfer Portal this weekend.  It feels very much like recruiting wins, but even better because your transfers-in are much more college-ready and college-proven kids.  But is there a cost to the Transfer Portal?

Transfer portal updates: Tracking Power Five transfers

Two+ years ago when Tuck was 'comin', he hit the portal and recruited over a bunch of the players he was inheriting in EL, and he also happened to stumble on a lottery ticket (KW III).  But we rightly carped at him that he was likely going to pay a price in the locker room, and that is poor morale of the kids who get pushed down on the depth chart as you drop someone over them from the top.  

On the front page Alex had this to say about the likely effect of the Nugent (NTN) transfer: "You have to assume one [Crippen and Anderson] will stay to duke it out with Nugent and then possibly get the job in 2024, but the likelihood that both stay after signing Nugent does not appear to be high to your author."   And that is the problem.   

When you go through traditional recruiting cycles you are almost in a modern version of courting.  You coo, you laugh, you fawn attention, you tell mom and dad how special their son is and how you will love them and develop them at your school.   And in the natural order of things you can see your son as a freshman learning their trade, biding their time, working in the weight room.    They get some snaps maybe in garbage time or on special teams by their sophomore year, but they can eye that depth chart and think - next year, that'll be my year.   That is, until it isn't because some darling you've never heard of from another school comes in and pushes you down the depth chart.   And then you have the potential for poison in your locker room.   Frustration, feelings of betrayal, or just general depression about 'I'm never going to get my shot'.  

So the questions are these:

1.  How much, if any, of a price do you pay with your existing team when you recruit 'over' them via the portal? 

2.   While it appears this is truly the new normal, do you think it would be healthy to have a philosophical limit on the number or nature of players (e.g., fairly sure they'll be a starter) a team should take in any given year?

3.  For us fans, do we evaluate these transfers objectively, or are we more of a 'we don't care, we just want to win any legal way we can' attitude?  Are we properly valuing the possible poison in the locker room?

XM 

Comments

Colt Burgess

December 18th, 2022 at 11:00 PM ^

I'm thinking that this is not going to be a trend but is a way to fill out what was, until recently, a disappointing class. If the 2024 class is loaded with high school talent, there won't be much need to access the portal or take as many 3 star types. I don't want the roster to become a yearly revolving door of players like at some other places.

Blue Highlander

December 19th, 2022 at 12:10 AM ^

I don’t think that “us fans” can evaluate transfers (or incoming freshman) accurately in any way.  We have a fraction of the information that the Wolverine staff has, and what little we see is highly curated.  Sit back and enjoy the ride!

RealElonMusk

December 19th, 2022 at 7:50 AM ^

We are in the best 2 year record that Michigan has had in football and now XM feels we need to worry about if the coaching staff knows what they are doing with transfers?

Sit back, enjoy the ride and stop being so concerned.  

Harbaugh has NFL & NCAA experience and he knows how to manage a roster.  Took him 6 years to get the roster straight and a 5 star QB but we are now here and it's glorious.

 

XM - Mt 1822

December 19th, 2022 at 8:12 AM ^

no, i don't think that, though i do think there are risks to unrestrained transfers.  judging by the other responses to this post, most agree.  my question is more general than that but even if you focus solely on our team, alex on the front page talks about a transfer likely resulting in kicking someone on our team into the portal. 

TeslaRedVictorBlue

December 19th, 2022 at 8:14 AM ^

Exactly what came to my mind when all the portal commits started. We got one great one last year that worked out amazingly well. But he was already a great player.

To you point, what happens when we bring in lesser players who push out guys on the roster who we'll need in coming years.

I don't mind a couple but it does seem like a bad trend. I like the Nebraska guy because he seems like a multi year starter.

Booted Blue in PA

December 19th, 2022 at 8:20 AM ^

I think transfers CAN be a cancer to the locker room if you're just grabbing players based on physical ability, no differently than recruiting HS athletes based specifically on physical ability.

 

From the program culture standpoint, I would think attitude and work ethic is vetted just as much for transfers as recruits, with more history making it harder to get that part wrong.

As for depth chart stuff.....   I think this, no different than NIL, is the new norm in college football.  Its going to add to the coaching staff's job in communicating with players about meritocracy, etc... but if you're a junior, with three or four years in the program and you still haven't improved enough to secure a role with the #1s.....   Why wouldn't the staff grab someone that they recruited heavily, but lost to Stanford three years ago, who's available and good enough to roll with the #1s?   Only slightly different than a true freshman coming in good enough to jump sophomore and juniors on the depth chart.

Its the new world we're competing in and the programs that don't recruit the best portal players (who are the best fit for their team/scheme) will get left behind by those that do.

 

GO BLUE!

Amazinblu

December 19th, 2022 at 9:12 AM ^

Culture, transparency, and communication.   These are essential to set and manage the expectations for all involved.  

Fair competition is the foundation of Harbaugh’s philosophy.  “Roll out the balls..”

One position that was significant this year was center.  Olu had a very positive impact - which is something everyone should agree about.  Olu brought at least three things - experience, talent, and maturity.  I would also add intelligence / knowledge - since he picked up the nomenclature, reads, adjustments, etc - in Michigan’s scheme - quickly.  

Like others, I think Michigan will use the portal tactically - to fill in positions where more depth is required and experience could be a factor.

The culture in the locker room seems to be very special.  And, my hope is - that culture won’t be compromised by the portal, NIL, or other factors.

Go Blue!

PopeLando

December 19th, 2022 at 9:35 AM ^

I've long since given up trying to predict how 17-22 year olds will react to any given stimuli. 

That being said, I think we're in a new era, with NIL and transfer rules, where *intellectual honesty* is of extreme importance. 

Basically, at some point in a player's career, they're going to HAVE to have a VERY frank moment, either with themselves or their trusted friends/family or both, where the "am I REALLY a pro prospect?" question gets an answer. 

If the answer is "yes", then playing time at any cost becomes the goal, and any recruiting or transfers which threaten playing time will result in an immediate exodus. 

If the answer is "maybe" or "no" or "not yet", then one-year rentals won't make that much of a difference unless they're assholes. 

Rabbit21

December 19th, 2022 at 10:18 AM ^

I think where I'm at is here.  

If the current shopping spree stops at these dudes and then gets hit in the spring if a critical need opens up, I am okay with it.  

If they keep going nuts like it FEELS like they've been doing then I'm a little more skeptical and think they're buying chemistry issues(especially on the O-Line where guys have been waiting to get on the field for YEARS and we've already had some high school recruiting issues that I think will only get exacerbated.)

bronxblue

December 19th, 2022 at 10:22 AM ^

I think a lot of these conversations were already happening with guys behind closed doors but transfer limitations led to players sticking around longer before making a grad-level move.  It probably didn't help locker room cohesion then either but most players are, by their nature, "team players" and will chug along as long as the coaches treat them with a certain level of respect.  I don't really see a ton of difference between portal transfers and recruitments in that respect.  It's not a perfect comparison but Frankie Collins apparently had to be reassured he'd have a good shot at starting this year when they recruited Dug and then again when they brought in Llewellyn.  I don't like to buy too much into coach-speak but there's always competition going on for spots and so if the idea that a mid-level center competing for a spot causes havoc in the lockerroom then you likely already had issues that were unsettled.

Crippen and Anderson were recruited in the same class and were around the same positional ranking.  Both obviously can't play center and so you figured either one of them was going to move to guard or was going to leave anyway, so I don't really think getting a depth guy in the portal changes too much on that front.

The transfer portal is a net good for players and teams; it lets guys have options to adjust their plans and positions and not be trapped by a decision they made at 17 when a bunch of rich guys came to their homes and wined-and-dined them.  

Leatherstocking Blue

December 19th, 2022 at 10:23 AM ^

The transfer portal is one step closer to showing players how its going to be in the NFL. The recruiting class is like the draft; the portal is like free agency. If you are the best at your position, you will play, but you will constantly be challenged and evaluated. 

The portal does bring Michigan and the rest of the conference closer to how the SEC operates with their 1 year  renewable scholarships. The portal has a not-so-subtle way of "processing" players that haven't cracked the 2-deep roster. If you are fourth string and hoping to move up because of graduations and the team brings in a proven starter at your position, they may be telling you to move on.

In a convoluted way, it may help players earn a degree. If it is my kid, I'd probably tell him to work hard in the classroom to get a degree in 3 years, then they can transfer somewhere for playing time and/or a graduate degree, with likely 2 years of playing time remaining.

maizeonblueaction

December 19th, 2022 at 10:37 AM ^

It's an interesting question, and I feel like there's some real nuance to it. If you're just taking anyone to have bodies, that's definitely not a good sign.

I also feel like if we had an established starter and took a transfer over them, that would be bad; that said, if there's a dogfight at a high impact position (re: Center or OT), then having some guys who have been able to start at a previous school/are seen as very good walk in the door isn't bad.

Put it this way, do you want to be waiting in the wings at a school that wins a lot, or the man at a place that's .500?

S.G. Rice

December 19th, 2022 at 11:00 AM ^

There are so many different ways for team chemistry and morale to fall apart.  I'm not sure that the addition of recruiting from the portal is any different or any more significant than any of the other dozens of things.  It's just another factor.

Obviously the coaching staff will need to be judicious with who they take, how they communicate with existing players and recruits and try to juggle the egos and feelings of 100+ young athletes. 

I have a fair amount of confidence that the staff will do their best to try and deal with all of that, fairly and honestly, especially with Harbaugh in charge, but as we've learned this offseason it's never possible to keep everyone happy.

Ashgeauxbleaux

December 19th, 2022 at 11:15 AM ^

Remember reading that LC told Tony Pape when recruiting him that he was gonna sit his first 3 years and then he would be all Big 10 his fourth and AA his 5th.That is what happened.I believe these coaches are sure who can play and who cannot at the level needed to compete for a national championship.Since we are on the subject of Crippen/Anderson they may still be a year or two away from being the guy.This will all shake out after spring ball and one or both may stay or leave.Quality depth on both lines cannot be overstated and the coaching staff has found a way to level the playing field with those who go the route of A&M.

Blue Middle

December 19th, 2022 at 11:40 AM ^

This is an interesting conversation.  I'll chime in:

1.  How much, if any, of a price do you pay with your existing team when you recruit 'over' them via the portal? I have to believe that our activity in the portal--specifically and especially at OL--is a reaction to what is happening with our roster.  The coaches know lots that we don't and it seems likely we're going to see more losses at those positions that perhaps we expected.  The other adds to this point all make sense.  When I played college soccer, adding new talent that helped us win was always welcome, even at my position.  It raises everyone's level of play.  That said, I hope the coaches have been communicating with the current players about what they're doing and why.

2.   While it appears this is truly the new normal, do you think it would be healthy to have a philosophical limit on the number or nature of players (e.g., fairly sure they'll be a starter) a team should take in any given year?  No.  Ideally, you recruit well enough that the portal is more about rounding out the roster than revamping it.  And while this feels like a huge number of transfers to us, this is far less turnover than many rosters across CFB.  But I do believe you want to use the portal as little as possible.  Great recruiting means that you don't have as many holes you need to fill through the portal.  But NIL may put Michigan at a disadvantage with HS recruits, so the portal may be necessary.

3.  For us fans, do we evaluate these transfers objectively, or are we more of a 'we don't care, we just want to win any legal way we can' attitude?  Are we properly valuing the possible poison in the locker room?  I think this whole question assumes that the team doesn't want to add great talent, and I don't think that's fair.  This is not paying players under the table.  This is not using scholarships as tryouts like the SEC does.  This is just the new landscape of CFB.  We are losing a B1G champion QB, a great TE, and some players we had high future hopes for to the portal.  To pretend that it's honorable or kind to our current team to just ignore opportunities to improve would be, to me, more damaging to the locker room.

The last thing I'd add is that Alex's recruiting post mentioned that HS players don't watch as much CFB or care as much about CFB as we might think.  Sure, they know who the elite programs are and where their friends are going, but they also have other things on their minds.

My guess is that having experience in CFB really changes that perspective. Where you may have been excited about trying to be part of a turnaround or to play for a coach who's a great recruiter, the reality of losing or things not being quite what they seemed probably sets in pretty fast.  You look at a program like Michigan and think, "I could be winning the conference, going to the CFP every year, getting national attention, and have a better chance of being drafted?  Yeah, that sounds good."

Time will tell if this strategy works in the long run.  I think--assuming we keep turnover at current levels--it will be very positive.  If we started to consistently see double-digit portal additions that were clearly bumping current players with bright futures, that would be another story.  I just don't see that happening.

I also think Michigan might just be more appealing to players with college experience than high schoolers.  That certainly suggests we need to try to do better with HS recruits, but it may also just be a reality of the way Michigan operates with NIL and as a "don't talk about it, be about it" program that shies away from negative recruiting and values character traits that may be less common in 16 and 17 year-olds than 19 and 22 year-olds that have had the opportunity to see what CFB is really about as opposed to the fantasies that are sold during HS recruiting.

tybert

December 19th, 2022 at 11:26 PM ^

Well said, 16-17 year olds are still stepped in "recent" success, meaning say 2013-2020. Current CFB players look at 25-2 UM the past two years, with big draft picks, awards, 2-0 vs. Ohio, 2 CFB Playoffs, etc. These guys aren't "futures" but rather guys who have at least won starting jobs and did at least reasonably well (unlike Derrick Green, Shane Morris, etc.). They see a FUTURE at UM in the NFL as well as chances to win it all. 

Miles Hinton could have gone to UGA and Bama, chose Stanford for his education, and now realizes he doesn't have to go 4-8 anymore. 

djmagic

December 19th, 2022 at 3:00 PM ^

my primary thought after reading the OP is that a meritocracy is just that, regardless of how a player finds himself on campus.

if you don't want to compete for your job, Jim Harbaugh's Michigan is not the program for you.

djmagic

December 20th, 2022 at 9:39 AM ^

I'm not 'missing' the nuance, I just don't think that the specifics of what leads to portal participation outweigh the larger point.  and compared to many other programs, I don't think Michigan is using the portal 'a lot'.  It just seems like we're using it a lot more than in years past, and i think a large part of that is due to the evolving landscape of college football.  The macro helps dictate the micro.

If you're a player at a program like Michigan, your goals include working as hard as you can with every day you're given, with the understanding that the only promise made to you is that your work will be given equal consideration as its evaluated with/compared to that of your peers.  in that light, how a kid gets to campus has little bearing on how hard he and everyone else should be working.

If you're on the team, and you know that every day you're competing for a spot, it shouldn't matter that the guys you're competing against were recruited with your class, before your class, after your class, or through the portal.  Ideally, a competitive, team-minded player wants the other guys around him to be as talented and hard-working as possible.

bcnihao

December 19th, 2022 at 4:04 PM ^

After the 2015 season, when it looked as if Taysom Hill might be available, people here debated about whether an outsider should be brought in over a QB who'd been obtained via regular recruitment.  But now, in hindsight, imagine what the 2016 team would have been like with Hill rather than Speight as QB.

Romeo50

December 19th, 2022 at 5:24 PM ^

Depends what is promised to the transfers/current players and if rotational play to merit more time.

I cede your point though and wondered the same only more so with Persi, Jones and El-Hadi. I will say that Olu has shown an undeniable benefit to everyone on that team. He and Mazi lead their sides of the ball with JJ a youthful close second only to Olu and enhanced by his position.

If competition and merit earned playing time even with rotations (which we saw a lot of) are the pattern going forward I'll feel better.

Need to be judicious on volume of transfers unless backstories are known. As likely they are.

JHumich

December 19th, 2022 at 5:41 PM ^

  • We avoid cancer in regular 'crootin. I assume we do the same in the portal.
  • No one is ever guaranteed a shot. What would these players do if someone above them had just unexpectedly stayed out of the draft? Or someone below them rapidly ascended?
  • I assume availability of slots in this class has also played into it

Double-D

December 19th, 2022 at 10:41 PM ^

I think you need to take kids that fit your culture and kids that are comfortable competing for the job.

I also think communication with the players directly affected by the transfers is important. Coaches are now recruiting their own roster everyday.

At the end of the day you need to recruit the portal and kids will appreciate having a stronger roster.

Michigan seems to be very selective in their moves. 

tybert

December 19th, 2022 at 11:19 PM ^

1. UM has realized, faster than most, that CURRENT success is more influential on CURRENT CFB players than it is on 16 and 17 year old guys.

2. Get one solid CB from the portal in case DJ goes pro and we are fine.

3. The days of Bama loading up, using hijinks math, on 30 recruits, are over. They will lose 10-15 recruits after the 1st 2 years.

4. Clemson, now without a Playoff berth for 2 years, and Bama and Ohio are 1/2 in berths - are looking up at us.

5. "Recruiting" has changed to HS + Portal + Grad transfers. I think we are Top 10 now for 2023.

6. JH and staff know how to make this program a FOMO place - something Ryan Day can't say anymore at Ohio and certainly Dabo at Clemson. 

7. Santa Ono, who is exactly 8 months older than me to the day, gets the NIL thing and will work with our incredible resources to win over player both to the school and financial opportunities. I couldn't stand Schlissel who seemed annoyed with jocks. 

8. GO Blue, be ready for Max Duggan and a fired up TCU team. They will bring their A+ game. 

BlowGoo

December 20th, 2022 at 6:48 AM ^

Biggest concern: possible message sent to potential future recruits:

 

"If you go to Michigan, they'll just replace you with someone better via portal next year."

 

Counterarguments: Meritocracy. People want to play at Michigan.

djmagic

December 20th, 2022 at 9:45 AM ^

while I don't necessarily disagree with the notion that your assertion of possible messaging is one possible perception that's out there, I'd say it's not like Michigan is unique in that regard, amongst other top-tier programs in college football.  UGA, BAMA and OSU all use the portal as well.  and they'd be silly not to.  Every program deals with attrition for various reasons.  the portal is just another roster management tool at this point.

rc15

December 20th, 2022 at 9:43 AM ^

JJ’s likely last season being in ‘23, they should be willing to sacrifice a little in future talent to run it back next season.

I don’t see any reason Nugent, Anderson, or Crippen couldn’t move to guard.

Olu and Okie didn’t seem to hurt the lockerroom.

crg

December 20th, 2022 at 10:04 AM ^

One of the best aspects about college sports is that it is *not* meant to be free agency - with kids jumping from franchise to franchise every year or two.

BornInA2

December 20th, 2022 at 10:55 PM ^

Ask McNamara and All. Nobody got portaled in over them and they split anyway.

This transfer without consequence setup is a complete fucking mess, and I don't think it does the student athletes (for the perhaps short time we continue pretending that's what they are) any favors relative to their degrees.

If there aren't some constraints put on transfers and NIL we're going to end up having players (aka non-student full scholarship semiprofessional athletes) switching teams mid-seasons or even during games.

jdemille9

December 21st, 2022 at 9:08 AM ^

Great write-up. Definitely a lot to consider.

Someone may have already said this, but for me point #1 (and given the 3 OL we've landed now) seems more about Michigan realizing they may lose more current OL to the draft or just want to restock the cupboard vs. 'recruiting over' the other guys left on the roster. You can never have too many high level OL.

OK, you can have too many but you know what I mean,

I think Harbaugh has finally built the program he wanted, and his meritocratic nature is well-known. Plenty of other schools bring in multiple 5* kids at the same positions year after year. If you're not a competitor of the highest level, you're not a Harbaugh kind of guy. 

Of course tapping the portal like this will cause some players to move on, but I'd bet more of the players on this roster (in a situation like this - Cade vs. JJ is a whole other story) will cause them to up their game and make everyone better.

Maybe I'm just an optimist now after all these years of living in the BPONE.

m83econ

December 21st, 2022 at 12:20 PM ^

Michigan's activity in Transfer portal seems like a pro team bringing in free agents for a championship push.  My opinion is that the staff is trying to maximize their chances in what is likely to be JJ's final season.