Harbaugh vs. Meyer, D'Antonio, Franklin
Pessimism is realism. This is the mantra. We aren't being hyperbolic Chicken Littles, screaming the sky is falling, we are simply recognizing what the ostriches will not. I am a natural pessimist. This thing that happens is the worst thing and of course it happened, because why wouldn't it? In the wake of another depressing loss to the Buckeyes (wouldn't it have been easier, emotionally, to just get the doors blown off, false hope is the worst thing, etc.), the 15th in 17th years, I sought solace in numbers. Sure, numbers are open to interpretation, but they also don't lie.
Michigan's competition (as a football program) lies in Columbus, East Lansing, and State College. This is how the program is judged. Below, is a comparison in three parts. The first examines record, i.e. wins and losses, i.e. what we care about. The second examines yardage and margin of victory, i.e., how badly have you beaten teams and how badly have they beaten you. The third looks at advanced stats, created by people much smarter than I, to measure exactly how good a team is.
AREA 1: RECORD
| COACH | W-L | CONF. W-L | H | A | VS RIVALS | VS TOP 10 | VS TOP 25 | VS FINAL TOP 10 | VS FINAL TOP 25 | BOWLS | FINAL AP | DIV/CONF. TITLES |
| Harbaugh | 28-10 | 18-8 | 16-4 | 10-5 | 3-6 | 1-7 | 5-7 | 2-7 | 5-9 | 1-1 | #12/#10 | 0/0 |
| Meyer | 33-5 | 23-3 | 19-2 | 13-2 | 7-2 | 7-2 | 5-2 | 4-4 | 7-4 | 1-1 (CFP) | #4/#6 | 0/0 |
| Dantonio | 24-14 | 16-11 | 15-6 | 8-7 | 5-4 | 5-4 | 7-6 | 3-7 | 5-8 | 1-1 (CFP) | #6/NR | 1/1 |
| Franklin | 28-11 | 20-7 | 21-1 | 6-8 | 3-6 | 2-5 | 3-7 | 2-5 | 4-7 | 0-2 | NR/#7 | 1/1 |
POINT OF EMPHASIS #1: HARBAUGH VS. RIVALS AND TOP 10 TEAMS
The W/L complaints about Harbaugh start and end here. Yes, he's five games worse than Urban in 3 years, but that's essentially a game or two every year. Meyer won the title the year before Harbaugh got there. Michigan went 5-7. Urban had a bit of a head start. This is a concerning trend, however. That 3-6 includes 1-5 against Michigan's two actual rivals. What's the cause? I'd like to say Michigan has been good, not great, but when we get to parts 2 and 3, that doesn't entirely seem to be the case. Urban has been slightly better against team that finish in the Top 10, but Harbaugh has basically the same record as Dantonio and Franklin over the past 3 years. A lot of voices will be silenced if Michigan wins the "big games".
POINT OF EMPHASIS #2: MICHIGAN STATE WAS BAD LAST YEAR
This obviously skews Dantonio's numbers, but it shows the volatility in MSU's success (something that will bear out in parts 2 and 3). They weren't 3-9 bad last year, but they weren't 12-2 good in 2015, either. Would we trade a CFP appearance for a 3-9 last year? I'm not so sure I would, especially if it ended in a destruction at the hands of Alabama (I have bad memories of Jerry World in 2012).
POINT OF EMPHASIS #3: HOLY CRAP, JAMES FRANKLIN'S HOME VS. ROAD SPLITS
Before I dug into the numbers, I had no idea that Franklin was Nick Saban at home and Brady Hoke on the road. Outside of the 1 point loss this year against the Buckeyes, those losses have either been blowouts or against average teams.
AREA 2: YARDAGE AND MARGIN OF VICTORY
| COACH | WINS BY 20+ | LOSSES BY 20+ | 1 SCORE WINS | 1 SCORE LOSSES | OUTGAINED | OUTGAINED BY 200+ | GOT OUTGAINED | GOT OUTGAINED BY 200+ | W/L |
| Harbaugh | 17 | 2 | 4 | 6 | 28 | 16 | 10 | 1 | 2-2 |
| Meyer | 22 | 1 | 7 | 3 | 32 | 14 | 6 | 1 | 2-1 |
| Dantonio | 6 | 5 | 12 | 5 | 25 | 4 | 13 | 2 | 5-6 |
| Franklin | 16 | 3 | 8 | 5 | 24 | 9 | 15 | 2 | 5-1 |
POINT OF EMPHASIS #1: WHAT DOES W/L AT THE END MEAN?
Wins are how many games your team was outgained but you still won. Losses are the reverse. How many games did you lose when you outgained the opponent?
POINT OF EMPHASIS #2: HARBAUGH VS DANTONIO IN CLOSE GAMES
I defined games decided by 1 score or less as games that finished within 8 points. Look at Michigan State's record in the past three years. NFL guys who look at these sorts of numbers love to mention regression to the mean. Normally, you can expect teams to finish around .500 in these coin flip games. Somehow, Dantonio has connived his way to a 12-5 record. Meanwhile, Jim Harbaugh has been somewhat snakebitten. The 4 wins were two OT games against Indiana, the game against Minnesota, and last year's 7 point win against Wisconsin in which they nearly tripled the Badgers yardage. The 6 losses include the dropped punt, two 1 point losses last year, the travesty in Columbus and this year's monsoon game. At some point, you have to believe this will turn around.
POINT OF EMPHASIS #3: MICHIGAN AND OHIO STATE DOMINATE WEAKER FOES
Yardage totals aren't perfect, but they can be a good barometer for how much a team controls a game. Michigan and Ohio State have bludgeoned lesser opponents (usually a sign of dominant, as opposed to good, teams). Michigan has twice as many games where they've decimated teams as Penn State and four times as many as Sparty in the past 3 years. That speaks well to the talent level at Michigan right now (those games have been more prevalent the past two years).
POINT OF EMPHASIS #4: JAMES FRANKLIN IS SOMEWHAT LUCKY AS WELL
He's 8-5 in 1 score games which isn't too far above the norm, but Penn State has won 5 games where they've gotten outgained the past 3 years. I didn't take a look at TO data, but I have to imagine that plays a factor. That said, I think a few of these games were of the "Penn State's offense gets a short field and scores when Barkley breaks 8 tackles and then their defense bends, but doesn't break" variety.
AREA 3: S&P & RECRUITING
| COACH | S&P OVERALL | S&P OFFENSE | S&P DEFENSE | 247 CLASS RANK | |
| Harbaugh | #5 / #3 / #22 | #38 / #41 / #72 | #3 / #2 / #10 | #37 / #8 / #5 / #14 | |
| Meyer | #4 / #5 / #1 | #20 / #23 / #5 | #9 / #5 / #12 | #7 / #4 / #2 / #1 | |
| Dantonio | #14 / #57 / #30 | #31 / #66 / #104 | #13 / #41 / #7 | #23 / #17 / #36 / #30 | |
| Franklin | #35 / #8 / #6 | #62 / #18 / #12 | #16 / #14 / #13 | #14 / #20 / #15 / #3 |
POINT OF EMPHASIS #1: FIX THE OFFENSE
The second valid complaint against Harbaugh is that the offense hasn't improved since he's been here, in fact, it got significantly worse this year. Brian has aptly pointed out that ultimately these issues stem from poor O-Line play and the issues at QB. Next year will be extremely important from an appearance standpoint. Michigan will have 3 highly ranked OL in the interior, a returning highly ranked QB, and all their weapons back. They just have to figure out the tackle situation.
POINT OF EMPHASIS #2: OHIO STATE HAS THE BEST PLAYERS
Stars matter. Look at those damn class rankings. If we're all wondering what happened on Saturday, look no further. Urban's backup QB is a high 4-star. They had 5-star Jeffrey Okudah making special teams tackles (and committing interference on a PR). Michigan's QB was a generic 3-star transfer from the American. It's going to be an uphill battle against these guys for the forseeable future.
POINT OF EMPHASIS #3: JAMES FRANKLIN OWES JOE MOORHEAD A BEER
Franklin better hope that Moorhead sticks around and somehow finds a way to clone Saquan Barkley. I'm not 100% sure that if Moorhead leaves and Miles Sanders isn't the aforementioned clone, that Penn State doesn't struggle next year. Their O-Line still isn't up to par and they still rely on a lot of jump balls to succeed.
POINT OF EMPHASIS #4: LET'S SEE HOW FAR DISRESPEKT TAKES YOU
Michigan State had a rough close to 2017 in the recruiting world and 2018 hasn't started a ton better. It's easy to say that Dantonio has molded these diamonds in the rough before, but eventually they are going to miss on some of these guys and have trouble plugging gaps.
If you want a TL;DR version, it's this:
Harbaugh is about even with his peers, though definitely hasn't gotten Michigan to Ohio State's level just yet. The criticism about Michigan not winning big games is certainly justified given the record against MSU and OSU and against Top 10 opponents. The trend on offense is worrisome, but the hope is steady QB play and a developing O-Line helps turn that around. James Franklin and Mark Dinatnonio have been more lucky than good. Urban Meyer has all the best players and that's why he wins a lot of games (but, he's a fine coach as well).
November 26th, 2017 at 8:51 PM ^
November 26th, 2017 at 8:57 PM ^
November 26th, 2017 at 10:22 PM ^
I'm leaning towards your judgment of JBB as well. If they can get him to at least "functional" as a pass blocker, he's been a pleasant surprise in the run game. By tackle situation, I'm more referring to LT. Cole was a lynchpin and the options there are:
1) Grant Newsome coming back from an injury that almost cost him a leg. There's zero guarantee and should be zero expectations he's even close to regaining his prior form.
2) One of the redshirt freshman, probably Andrew Steuber, I guess. This is our concern, dude.
3) Ben Bredeson and plugging in Spanellis or Runyan Jr. at LG. I wouldn't be 100% against this idea. Bredeson would at least be functional you'd imagine and the idea should be get your best 5 out there.
November 27th, 2017 at 5:18 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 9:29 PM ^
December 25th, 2017 at 11:09 AM ^
appears to be the consensus fav to start at LT in 2018
November 26th, 2017 at 9:02 PM ^
Too soon for me. I know what Coach Harbaugh's record is versus rivals. I'm looking forward to the bowl game(I would think it would be Peters) and next year.
Go Blue!
November 26th, 2017 at 9:16 PM ^
I originally downvoted this but I appreciated it more on the read through. I am not a Harbaugh basher and this isn't that.
364 days to go.
November 26th, 2017 at 9:40 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 8:25 PM ^
A couple bad breaks (the dropped punt) and monsoon game against MSU, and a very poorly officiated OSU game in 2016 hurt big time.. But looking at the last two classes Hoke left behind, and the salvage class of 2015, it's not surprising this year was a disappointment compared to expectations.
For all that Hoke left on the defensive side, he left negative on offense. All that is needed is some depth, for both injuries and because not everyone works out. The OL this year was thin and the only talent outside of Cole were first or second year players, not surprising things didn't turn out too well. You want your QB/OL to RS and then get spot/back-up duty for a year or two before being pressed into service. We needed too many young guys to hit and hit right away..
I'm not worried at all. As depth is built and talent is developed over the years the program will start humming along like Alabama and OSU, etc.
I've said it before but I'll say it again.. in the book Rags to Roses about Stanford Harbaugh was quoted as saying something alone the lines of getting a program going is akin to an old-fashioned flywheel in a mill. It's a huge heavy stone that takes a lot of work to get moving and it moves slow at first, but once it's going full speed its momentum keeps it going. And like Bill Connelly said in his Michigan preview, get your laughs in now because Michigan is gonna be fully weaponized soon.
November 26th, 2017 at 10:00 PM ^
I didn't mean it as a dis to the thread or his work on it. I just meant too soon for me to look back. I'm looking forward at this point.
Probably should've not commented, but thats no fun!
November 26th, 2017 at 10:05 PM ^
This is a nice write-up. Well done!
I'm 100% pro-Harbaugh, and I'm 100% glad he's the HC at Michigan. It would be beyond foolish to let him go at this juncture. He's going to do good things here. (I'm a bit less enthusiastic about some elements of the coaching staff. We'll see how that sorts out in the off-season.)
As for the others in your list -- Urban Meyer is obviously an "elite" coach in the fullest sense of that word. I have grudging admiration for what Dantonio has done at Michigan State. He achieved sustained success unlike any previous coach at MSU has done in decades, and he turned a 3-9 team around to a 9-3 team. That's impressive no matter how you look at it. Franklin is still a bit of a puzzle to me ... is he good, or is he lucky? I don't really know.
November 26th, 2017 at 10:47 PM ^
Thanks! Glad you found it interesting. Meyer is definitely elite. The program is only behind Alabama as far as success + recruiting rankings. It is a machine. Michigan isn't there yet. As for Mork Dantonini, he's definitely Michigan State's 2nd or 3rd best coach ever (maybe the best given the differences between now and the 1950s/1960s) but they've also been insanely lucky. The S&P rankings since he took over and record in games decided by one score or less:
2007: 32nd (7-6)
2008: 23rd (9-4)
2009: 23rd (6-7)
2010: 29th (11-2, 4-0 in games decided 1 score)
2011: 16th (11-3, 4-1)
2012: 15th (7-6, 4-5)
2013: 22nd (13-1, 1-1)
2014: 10th (11-2, 2-0)
2015: 14th (12-2, 6-1)
2016: 57th (3-9, 1-3)
2017: 30th (9-3, 5-1)
Since 2010, when Dantonio got going, he is an unbelieveable 27-12 in games decided by 8 points or less (one score). Again, most advanced stats guys would tell you that you'd expect a team to ultimately finish around .500 given a large enough sample size. There's nothing that's obvious about why this is the case (i.e., he's had an amazing kicker for 8 straight years). The 2014 team was definitely his best outfit. I'd honestly love for somebody to dig really deep and figure out how he's managed to avoid the regression to the mean. EDIT TO ADD: And good lord in their 5 seasons with double digit wins, he’s 17-3. I think he definitely made some kind of Faustian bargain.
November 27th, 2017 at 8:57 AM ^
Slight disagreement. I'd argue 2013 was their peak year. That team was probably good enough to compete with anyone for a NC.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:50 PM ^
My man, necromancy.
November 28th, 2017 at 1:38 PM ^
If you listen to Bill Connelly's podcast-- PAPN: Podcast Aint Played Nobody, and you should--you'll hear him talk about the mechanics of S&P quite a bit. In a nutshell, the 'P' in S&P relates to explosivity and that sheds a ton of light on MSU's relatively low S&P numbers. MSU's style of defense is awesome in success rate (the 'S' in S&P) but is liable to give up big plays (just like Don Brown). So, State's defensive explosivity tends to be fine but not awesome. Same goes for their offense, they're not a big play offense. Remember the 5 hour drive to close out the B1G Championship game against Iowa 2 years ago? So their S&P rating is lower than their record suggests because S&P rewards domination; that's not MSU's game.
Those qualities also lend themselves to tighter MOVs. A one score lead is usually enough for their defense while their offense holds the ball and grinds the clock. Dantonio's record in tight games isn't luck, that's just his plan.
Having said that, "Trouble with the snap" was straght up bullshit, and Urban Meyer taking the ball out of Ezekiell Elliot's hands later that year, and the B1G West Champion being less than tested every year... those are the ways Dantonio has gotten pretty lucky. Oh yeah, and he faced our back up QB and got a boatload of turnover help this year... I could keep going. Sigh...
Anyway, Good Diary!
November 26th, 2017 at 10:05 PM ^
Thanks for pulling these stats together. It's a shame that the national/Midwest media are starting to offer stupid hot takes on Harbaugh.
It's worth noting that all four teams have generally had excellent defenses. To really excel in the modern game, however, you need to pair an excellent defense with an excellent offense. Franklin and PSU owe Moorhead more than a beer. A 44-spot improvement in S&P+ offense ratings in his first year (coupled with an additional 6-spot improvement the next year into a top-12 offense) is really fantastic. I'm beating a dead horse on this, but if Pep and/or Drevno find other positions this offseason (head coaching positions at other schools), I would love for Harbaugh to take the same approach to his offense that he did when hiring Brown: look at track records in producing excellent college offenses, and hire the best person available.
November 26th, 2017 at 10:45 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 8:30 PM ^
Great read.. I'm definitely in the "Franklin is their Brady Hoke" camp but yeah kudos to him for hiring Moorhead. Once Moorhead leaves Franklin will go back to his questionable in-game coaching decisions and probably derp away a few every year.
I do think it's a bit unfair to compare Harbaugh to Meyer. The situations they walked into were night and day.. OSU was a perennial powerhouse (save for the Fickell interim year) and Michigan was just short of a tire fire. That said, Urban Meyer is an elite coach and he took the great program Tressell re-established and brought them up even higher.
November 26th, 2017 at 10:38 PM ^
Was going to make a separate diary with this info, but I think it works better as additional data for this thread...
Win Loss Score:
In an attempt to qualify a team's record by the quality of its wins and losses, I made the Win Loss Score, which is calculated as the winning percentage of the teams you beat, subtracted by the loss percentage of the teams that beat you, all multiplied by your number of wins and finally your own winning percentage.
Without further preamble, here is a data dump of how Dantonio stacks up against Harbaugh and Co.
Quality of Wins:
Quality of Losses:*
*^^^This should say "Avg Vict Opp Loss %"
November 26th, 2017 at 10:39 PM ^
This is awesome. Thanks for adding it. I think that data bears out what's evident in the chart. In 3 years, we've been really great at steamrolling average-to-bad teams and have been unable to beat good-to-great teams.
As an aside, see above for the ridiculousness surrounding MSU in the past 8 years. 27-12 in one score games!
November 26th, 2017 at 10:52 PM ^
Dantonio made a deal with the devil in '15, cursed last year, another double-dare deal this year.
The guy is a legend because MSU students are mad UM rejected them.
Next year- 7 and 5 with losses to at ASU, UM, PSU, OSU, at Nebraska
Then to Music City Bowl
p.s. their fans don't travel well. Iowa fans DO travel well
November 26th, 2017 at 11:25 PM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 12:24 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 2:17 AM ^
isn't some shitbird program a la UTEP or Charlotte. George O'Leary went 12-1 there just 4 years ago. And 9-4 the year before they fell apart with the 0-12 season
In fact, a 5th year senior on that team would have gone to 2 BCS bowls (provided they win on Saturday) sandwiched around an 0-12 year in the 3rd year.
Kudos to Frost and his staff for turning it around and a special season, but I'm not even sure it's one of the top 3 coaching jobs at a Group of 5 school this year. Monken at Army, KIffin at FAU, and Tedford at Fresno State have done remarkable jobs.
November 27th, 2017 at 12:26 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 10:16 AM ^
Up to and including Harbaugh's first year, after the OSU game I'd think to myself, I want no part of watching another UM/OSU game for a while. Even the close games we'd have against them felt like they'd be impossible to reproduce. We took the Ls these last two years but is anyone really afraid of playing OSU anymore? There's no 'gap'. There's just the slimmest of margins, individual plays here or there. Just hitting a few more open passes on Saturday and M wins comfortably-- with the youngest team in FBS.
So damn the idea of us hoping to just be a pain in their ass. I'd say it's been quite the opposite of late.
November 27th, 2017 at 12:28 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 10:04 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 1:50 AM ^
need to do better, our rivals are kicking our butts
November 27th, 2017 at 11:06 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 8:34 PM ^
I see no reason why we can't beat MSU next year. I think we were better in every way but QB this year. We had an incredibly unfortunate 5 TO game with our third best QB in awful weather and lost by a total of 4 points. Sucks, but oh well.
November 27th, 2017 at 11:20 PM ^
I don't like to think that we are better than MSU at every position except one because that indirectly suggests that we were out coached. We played our 3rd best qb against msu but that was also a coaching decision. If they can put a team on the field that is less talented and still win, what does that say about our staff? Same thing with close games. If a team consistently wins or loses close games, it's usually a reflection on the staff.
November 27th, 2017 at 11:36 PM ^
We turned the ball over 5 times and lost by 4. Sometimes unfortunate stuff just happens and it doesn't mean we were outcoached. It also wasn't a coaching decision to break Wilton's spine. Now maybe we're not currently better at every position other than QB like I originally stated, but I think our talent this year was better and I would bet on us winning that game 7/10 times, especially if we played today.
November 28th, 2017 at 1:49 PM ^
MSU will have a better QB than us next year too. A returning Lewerke with a full season under his belt is better than what we are bringing back.
They were just as young as we were across the board. Next year will be a dog fight and Dantonio has a knack for beating us. Honestly, I don't expect us to win.
December 7th, 2017 at 10:34 AM ^
That was with a healthy Peters on the sideline. I'm not going to play that game and pretend I understand the inner dynamics of starting a fresh QB too early, but one does have to wonder why O'Korn ever got the nod over Peters when Wilton went down.
November 27th, 2017 at 7:45 AM ^
Given the state of the quality and quantity of the 2 most important positions on the field as he took over the program, this is not bad. They had 2 bullets at OT in 3 years, zero at QB and little else on the OL to work with until 2018. May not go 15-0 next eyar with that schedule but if QB and OT can get worked out to "P5 average" 10-2 is reasonable.
Also I don't see the schedule next year as completely awful- they have PSU and Wisc at home, sure the Big 3 on on the road but the ND game doesn't matter much in the long run- that's the perfect "lose early" game. Get to the B10 title game against a West division opponent and M has a real shot. the bottom line is that they have to beat one of MSU or OSU (home or road or on the moon) and not lose another B10 game and they should get there. That is more than doable. and 2019 with any luck re: early entries to the draft (hello, Gary) will be a good run as well.
The future is bright.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:33 AM ^
Urban just finished his sixth season at tOSU; he inherited a pretty good group of players when he arrived in 2012. Darth Dantonio has been in East Landfill about 11 years and recruits and develops players into his sort of Tresselball way of football. Franklin got to State College a year before Harbaugh and to his credit was fortunate enough to recruit a good QB and an exceptional RB, neither of which Harbaugh had.
Now that Brady Hoke's recruits have largely bled through the system let's see how coach Jim stacks up against these other coaches. Given what he's had to work with, he has held his own and will do even better in the future. A last-second loss to MSU in 2015 and in 2017 a less-than-ideal QB pitching INTs into a deluge. A 2016 two-OT loss in Columbus that but for a bad spot would have been a win, and in 2017 a close game in AA that but for a QB should have been another win.
Thus for want of a nail the kingdom was lost. These "nails" that have plagued M these last three seasons are bound to disappear --- keep the faith, and beware of drawing conclusions from incomplete or skewed data.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:03 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 10:12 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 10:24 AM ^
So all the buts and what if's apply for the first 3 years. It will be a put up or shut season in 2018 however.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:35 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 12:22 PM ^
November 28th, 2017 at 4:10 PM ^
November 29th, 2017 at 6:01 PM ^
I really hate this stat. We are a "bend over and grab your ankles" game in Columbus and a dropped punt snap from being 3-3. I consider those two instances outside of Harbaugh's control and thus it is an unfair stat to prove a point that I don't think exists. This is why I was so pissed at the hose job we got last year in Columbus. As the years go by, people forget we were the better team that day and deserved to win that game. It then creates this opportunity to cherry pick any stat you like to support your narrative or agenda (not talking directly to you profholt) but to those in the national media that like to find anything they can to bash Harbaugh.
I get what you are saying though and I believe the tide will turn. Hell, I think we win last Saturday with Speight or Peters. That offensive gameplan was pure genius and many of the pundits that like to bag on Harbaugh don't recognize that.
November 27th, 2017 at 5:53 PM ^
didn't face more probation ramifications than they did.
That program should have been given the death penalty.
November 28th, 2017 at 12:14 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 6:11 PM ^
Ohio State's winning pct, success of Urban Meyer, and the Buckeyes repeated national spotlight exposure has attracted more higher-rated talent than Michigan has.
How does anyone compete with consecutive recruiting classes of #7, #3, #2 and #1 and almost no injuries or suspensions?
Ohio State 2017 (10-2) is still remarkably young.
Ohio State 2018 offense will return 7 starters - loses QB Barrett, TE Baugh, LT Jamarco Jones, C Billy Price and returns everyone else.
Ohio State 2019 defense will return 7 starters - loses DE Tyquon Lewis, DT Tracy Sprinkle, MBL Chris Worley, S Damon Webb
A 10-2 team returns with 14 starters, has no questions at QB (it's Haskins), and plenty of experienced core talent returning to be heavily favored for a conference title.
November 27th, 2017 at 8:57 PM ^
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