WTKA Roundtable 2/1/2024: It's Not Play for Pay It's Play for Work
Things Discussed:
- Lost Herbert: Recruiting against Jim is tough.
- DC: Zach Orr has a couple of NFL opportunities now so figuring that out will be the most important thing.
- Concerned that this administration is going to Bennie Oosterbaan Sherrone Moore's program. Needs to not just support but lead the transition to a new version of the college football landscape.
- Beefing up recruiting department: can criticize Jim Harbaugh here because he spent recruiting jobs on hires like Stalions and Shemy.
- Sherrone going hard for ND's Chad Bowden. Fended off Harbaugh for Grant Newsome, fighting for Elston.
- Warde: His "transformational not transactional" interview was the end for us; he's not the guy for the future. Transactional means fair; when you say you don't want that you're saying you don't want the players getting a fair deal.
- Michigan's culture doesn't have to be these 1930s ideas. Hunter Dickinson would be here if we had this working right.
- There's more in the tank: Michigan's Athletics department doesn't need to be taking money for naming buildings.
- NCAA dysfunction has to be part of this. We should be leading the way towards fixing the system, not pretending the old system still works. Players don't benefit from everyone being a free agent because it makes them all replaceable. That system sucks for everybody because there's no investment in the players, there's less time to get to know your system, and nobody's getting an education.
- Right now we're hanging onto a system that's already dead, falling into a terrible oligarchic system. System should be one that forces the universities to be stuck with the players they get, because it makes them responsible for the player's education and development. Right now the NCAA is antithetical to the higher ideal the NCAA was set up.
- Seth: communist economies—that's what the NCAA model is—require a black market. The cheating is part of the system.
- What we're seeing is the fall of that system, and what Michigan should be doing is leading the way to a new system.
- How? Pay our players to be in a Super Bowl commercial advocating for a player's union, which we start here.
- Seth & Brian argue whether the history of Oosterbaan/1950s is relevant today.
[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]
You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.
Seth came on early to talk Lions here. Segment 2 is here. You can watch the video here:
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Direct download link (right-click/save as)
- What's with the theme music?
That guy's making 7 figures a year and telling other people not to get paid.
February 1st, 2024 at 8:12 PM ^
Sound like back to BPONE for some. No thanks.
February 2nd, 2024 at 9:53 AM ^
Warde is starting to remind me of Tom Goss.
February 2nd, 2024 at 2:06 PM ^
Interesting conversation on NIL, and I get the legal, ethical considerations. However, I remain perplexed by the economics of donor funding of ballooning NIL payrolls. Pro team owners are making an investment and (theoretically) expect a return on funding for salaries, etc- pro teams are for profit businesses. For NIL, donors are being asked to cut a big check, and then again, and then again for funds that go into the pockets of players who are here a few years then gone. The expected return on NIL funding is less evident than funding a coach salary, or endowing an academic program, let alone financing a new brick and mortar facility - all of these bolster the wider institution. I’m doubtful that even if we get one year of funding for a championship contending roster, donors will be up for it year after year. This is not a Michigan -specific problem. I suspect the national market for NIL is overpriced at the moment and not sustainable
February 2nd, 2024 at 6:44 PM ^
The donor-based model is unsustainable for most, because the endgame is effectively universal free agency every year, and most donors aren't so attached to their school's athletic success that they want to dump money in and get soupçons of fleeting glory as their only reward.
Of course, then there's T. Boone Pickens, who gave over a quarter of a billion dollars to OSU athletics. He might have been willing to outspend and outlast most others.
The ultimate solution is to move to a world where the athletes are employed by the schools. Yes, that means negotiating state laws, employment laws, Title IX and all the rest. Yes, it will be messy. Yes, it will suck some of the joy out of college athletics for a few.
But the genie is out of the bottle, and we will never get it back in. The only way out is through.
February 3rd, 2024 at 11:41 AM ^
That guy's making 7 figures a year and telling other people not to get paid.
A) Harbaugh, who now makes 8 figures, was parroting the same transformational line in 2022.
B) He’s not telling them to not get paid. He (Warde) is telling them to go earn it.
“…our student-athletes have to participate. To receive anything, they should have to do something for that just like anybody else.”
C) The transaction begins with tuition, room and board, and cost of attendance. It includes strength and conditioning training under a world class S&C program, and meals designed by a top notch nutritionist. If you want to pay athletes to work games, the total compensation package should be considered. I could get paid more elsewhere, but my employer provides excellent health coverage, vacation time, and 401k match.
D) Arguing that the pre-NIL system was unfair to Denard is about as relevant as bringing up Oosterbaan. If Denard was playing today, he would make bank. #16 jerseys were everywhere. But UofM is trying to operate within the regulations of the current system. This argument is breaking down to “win at all costs” folks on one side, and “rules matter” folks on the other.
E) UofM can be transformational if you take advantage of it. Why do out-of-state students pay an extra $50k per year? From a purely transactional perspective, they shouldn’t. But there is something about UofM that is hard to put a price tag on. UofM transformed my life. I was a nerdy math geek in high school. At UofM, I met one of the top 5 experts in the world in their field. I studied under them for 4+ years and ended up in a career I never would have imagined if not for UofM. UofM transformed Denard Robinson’s life. I dare say UofM transformed my 2 favorite bloggers lives. Could MGoBlog have succeeded and flourished at any other university?
F) the one thing I take issue with Warde and Jim on this is that it doesn’t have to be either or. It can and should be both and, transactional AND transformational. I’m surprised Warde, a UofM MSW alum (like my UofM-transformed Dad) doesn’t embrace the more holistic approach.
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