please do not do this [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

Signgate The Ninth: Waiting Comment Count

Brian November 8th, 2023 at 2:24 PM

The narrative begins to turn. Finally we have some takes in the media that properly contextualize the seriousness of The Worst Scandal In The History Of The Big Ten. I recommend the entirety of this Dan Wetzel piece:

In Michigan’s case, the “advanced scouts” were Stalions’ band of iPhone-toting buddies.

In Purdue’s case, the “advanced scouts” were the professional coaching staffs of two other Big Ten teams that had just played the Wolverines, and thus could battle-test the signs they stole as accurate.

Which would you rather have? Raw cell phone footage that still needs to be broken down, or highly experienced coaches just handing over their work?

Everyone would choose the Purdue option.

Even if Ohio State and Rutgers acquired Michigan signs via NCAA-legal game film or during game action, it doesn’t matter. Purdue didn’t do that work. The Boilermakers received stolen signs from advanced scouting. They cheated as much as Michigan.

Wetzel was properly incredulous about Tony Petitti's reported statements on his podcast with Pat Forde, and since Forde has been one of the media's leading hanging judges I appreciate this exchange:

Petitti's tenure as commissioner is going to be short. Next time hire someone who knows things about sports and have the TV guy be second in command. Also recommended: the discussion at the start of the Cover 3 podcast:

People who think this is a big deal are dwindling to MSU/OSU/PSU fans and guys like Finebaum who are in it for the clicks.

[After THE JUMP: decision day is tomorrow]

Why did you do that? Permit myself to quote, uh, myself:

There is an astounding difference between the apparent reaction of Big Ten head coaches—kill 'em all and let God sort it out—and actual sign stealers. The latter group is perplexed as to why anyone would bother, because there is no need to go to those lengths:

“This is not like the Astros,” he said. “This was all obtained legitimately. We’ve been really good at it (stealing signals), getting stuff off of TV copy. People didn’t go to sites (to obtain intel). We did it legally, like stealing it from the third base coach.”

And it provides approximately no advantage:

The staffer involved in decoding the Wolverines signals said he doesn’t buy that the way Stalions and Michigan allegedly gathered their intel actually gave them much of an advantage over the way other teams usually do it. Or that they actually needed this.

“Michigan didn’t have to do it to win,” he said. “That’s the f—ed up thing. It’s still about blocking and tackling. That’s why they didn’t have to do it. They’re really talented. They are better than Penn State, and they are better than Ohio State. They can legitimately win it all.”

Connor Stalions went to great effort to break NCAA rules and should be given a show cause. Michigan's program benefited from this in almost no way whatsoever and should be left alone to beat heads in.
Looks like we're D-1. Tony Petitti is widely expected to do whatever he's going to do tomorrow. Josh Henschke and Sam Webb both make it sound like the previous draconian punishments—suspending Harbaugh until the NCAA investigation finishes was floated—are unlikely. Webb headlined his latest piece "Punishment talks progressing, but not enough." Petitti can issue a two-game suspension without escalating it to the Big Ten ADs, and that sounds like what he's going to attempt.

All indications are that if Petitti does levy a suspension Michigan is going to court. They've has hired a law firm that I've never heard of but people who have are like "oh dang really?"

FAFO time. Rittenberg and Murphy have an article at ESPN that seems fairly well informed about what Michigan will argue:

Michigan likely will argue that the Big Ten had agreed to monitor the NCAA investigation and await its results, and only intervened as a response to pressure from competitors within the conference. The Big Ten did not initiate its own investigation, which the sportsmanship policy allows, and has essentially been relying on information from various sources during an ongoing external probe. The information about Michigan only surfaced weeks ago, and college athletics have a long history of much more serious infractions that have taken much longer to be resolved. …

The league's own handbook also could be cited in the defense for Michigan/Harbaugh. In the "Enforcement Policies and Procedures" section, there is a heading for "NCAA Initiated Cases." The handbook notes that the Big Ten's Compliance and Reinstatement Committee, not the commissioner, would review any potential NCAA violations by one of its members.

The entry reads: "Where the NCAA initiates a preliminary or official inquiry with a member university the Conference will cooperate with university and NCAA representatives in the processing of that case through the normal NCAA investigation, hearing and appeal processes. While the case will be processed through normal NCAA channels, the Conference Compliance and Reinstatement Committee shall review the case and may impose additional penalties, if warranted, subsequent to the NCAA action."

Attorneys for Michigan and/or Harbaugh could argue that the Big Ten isn't following its own rules in letting a "normal NCAA investigation" play out, and is acting ahead of the NCAA, rather than imposing discipline "subsequent to the NCAA action." The Big Ten will keep pointing to its sportsmanship policy, but Michigan could argue that this case, initiated by the NCAA, falls under a different category.

You'll note this is virtually identical to what user rym posted yesterday:

In investigations initiated by the NCAA, the Big Ten rules require the conference to wait for the NCAA investigation and any appeals to be finished and for the NCAA to levy a penalty first, at which time the Big Ten can choose to pile on (key language italicized):

32.2.2(C) NCAA Initiated Cases. The Compliance and Reinstatement Subcommittee shall review violations by member universities as determined by the NCAA and may impose penalties in addition to those imposed by the NCAA for any violations.

1. Where the NCAA initiates a preliminary or official inquiry with a member university the Conference will cooperate with university and NCAA representatives in the processing of that case through the normal NCAA investigation, hearing and appeal processes.

2. While the case will be processed through normal NCAA channels, the Conference Compliance and Reinstatement Subcommittee shall review the case and may impose additional penalties, if warranted, subsequent to the NCAA action.

That provision is unambiguous and lists no exceptions. There is no rule in the conference handbook that would allow the Commissioner to bypass the NCAA (and the Big Ten's Compliance and Reinstatement Subcommittee) because the Commissioner feels peer-pressured to act quickly.

Never get in a land war in Asia, and never get in a pedantry competition with the University of Michigan.

Etc.: Henschke reports that the weird Corum-Stalions LLC lists Corum as an organizer but Corum did not sign anything, undoubtedly because he has no idea about this totally sick collab. Sign stealing in basketball happens, too. RGIII isn't having it. These are good tweets.

Comments

meeashagin

November 8th, 2023 at 4:45 PM ^

Anyone that's arguing that Michigan knew other teams plays therefore it's not fair is a dummy...I'm sorry. It's completely legal to steal signs so to even go down that endless rabbit hole is ridiculous. 

What's more likely is that as we've seen everyone tries in some capacity to steal signs and Michigan is everyone biggest game of the year so every coach should be fired if they're using the same standard signs vs Michigan or really anyone because "sign stealing is legal"

People act like every team is issued 6 signs a piece at the beginning of the year....you have to use those signs no matter what and under no circumstances are you allowed to change them. GTFOH!

badjuju81

November 8th, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^

I hope Petiti's staff read MGoBlog, so they can inform him of the out that the B1G bylaws provide him, in cases where the NCAA has already started an investigation.  It gives him the chance to tell the mob "sorry, my hands are tied".

Mtuba75

November 8th, 2023 at 5:57 PM ^

Vacuums on the porch = toys in the attic…

These boards are phenomenal and leave careful readers knowing things rather than being left with guesses and opinions. In the grand scheme of things, we are dealing with the line where allowed sign stealing becomes prohibited sign stealing and, therefore “cheating.” Setting aside the CMU piece of the story (there is something very strange about Stalions showing up credentialed and in coach’s game livery where several people would know him and not being noticed) the third party, in person scouting violates the spirit if not the letter of the NCAA rule.  The NCAA, following its ponderous enforcement procedures (think cheeseburgers) could use its look-through rule and mete out some punishment to its nemesis, Harbaugh. It would be justified but the punishment would need to reflect not only (what I think is) the prior Baylor precedent but also the fact that this is a rule prohibiting something which conferred no competitive advantage but no one cared enough about it to get rid of. 
 

The B1G and Petitti have a multiplicity of problems. AFAIK, the only formal statement has been to issue the notice of potential disciplinary action. No other statements or attributed quotes other than crap “from sources.”  The B1G can’t deal with the substance of Stalions’ transgressions because they’re the subject of an on-going NCAA investigation which, by rule, has to be completed before the conference can add penalties.  We’re left, therefore with the amorphous “sportsmanship” violations which, given a complete lack of a single fact tying anything to anyone other than vacuum cleaner man, is highly suspect. Remember the only rule potentially broken was in-person scouting.  Using stolen signs? No problem — everyone does it. And the B1G would have to employ the NCAA “look-through” rule and not a conference rule  to attach culpability to Harbaugh to justify sanctioning him specifically.

With the OSU/Purdue/Rutgers revelations (Schiano’s non-denial deflections in his presser today said volumes) Petitti has found himself in a box from which it will be fascinating to see how he attempts to extricate himself and the Conference. 

UgLi Eric

November 9th, 2023 at 2:08 AM ^

You must have a blessedly smart life. I don't know if you ever go outside, but I see idiotic behaviour all around me. 

But yes, this entire scouting charade and subsequent actions/threat makes no sense whatsoever. My wife has never even been to a game before, isn't from America, and when I described the pitchfork mentality of a bunch of overpaid suits, she was engaged in the topic and notably scared for humanity...taken in context of two wars in close proximity to our lives.

BlueChitown

November 9th, 2023 at 3:35 AM ^

You know what would be hilarious?

Harbaugh takes a suspension for the OSU game provided that Ryan Day is also suspended for passing UM's signals to Purdue (and TCU?).

Jesse Minter coaches the game against Jim Knowles.

themostbrian

November 9th, 2023 at 10:12 AM ^

I agree with all of Brian's takes. AND I think it shows immensely poor judgement for Harbaugh to approve/allow the hire of Stalions.

Michigan needs to take a hard look internally at how such a monumentally dumb hire was allowed to proceed with seemingly no effective oversight. Even the most cursory examination of this guy would've turned up dozens of red flags. I really don't get it.

SlimPickens

November 9th, 2023 at 4:29 PM ^

I've been working on a song parody for this whole situation.  Cue the music to the Mickey Mouse Club:

"Who's the leader of the conference, but just a Buckeye shill?

T-O-N-Y P-E T-I-TT-I"

That's all I got so far.  I should never post again.  Sorry everyone. The stupidity of this whole things has me losing my mind.