Gentleman's Agreement Comment Count

Brian

1/9/2018 – Michigan 69, Purdue 70 – 14-4, 3-2 Big Ten

39578094082_81391ffc54_z

[Marc-Gregor Campredon]

This is all Illinois's fault. Or Miami's. Or whichever jabroni awarded this ball to the Hurricanes late in a 2013 NCAA tournament game:

Oh no I read the comments

image

Oh no, college basketball listened to Youtube commenters. In the aftermath of that game the outrage was sufficient for the NCAA to institute video review on late-game out-of-bounds plays. Thus last night, when a Michigan win-or-OT situation turned into a loss thanks to a replay that literally took seven minutes as two referees pored over every frame of a Dakota Mathias rake on Charles Matthews and eventually awarded the ball to Purdue.

This was insane for many reasons.

One: I spent 39:54 watching a great basketball game between two good teams exchanging haymakers, and then I spent the rest of my life watching the back of a ref.

Two: any replay that takes that long surely falls in the realm of the disputed and should not be flipped.

Three: that call would never be made at any point during the first 39:54 because it does not matter if an offensive player who has been stripped of the ball going to the basket has his finger on the ball a nanosecond after the defender. The basketball rule book functionally reads "if a player is stripped going to the basket it's his team's ball unless it hits his leg or foot. "

Applying a different standard to a late game possession isn't correcting a call, it's getting it wrong in the name of pedantry. This happens a half dozen times in any basketball game...

...and 100% of the time the ball is awarded to the offense. That's the rule even if it's not the rule.

Four: Matt Painter essentially used a coach's challenge, which does not exist in basketball.

Surely the response there could have been "no" or "hard pass" or "Matt you seem nice and you've constructed a fascinating basketball team but please go to hell." It was not. So it goes.

----------------------------------------

I'm obviously pretty cheesed off that Michigan lost one of their vanishingly few opportunities for a win that could move them up a seed line, but I'm even more vexed that the basketball game I was watching went from wonderful tense fun to a conference call. This is bad. It is bad for the game, and not just people walking bow-legged to work this morning.

If we're going to have replay—and, yes, we probably should, Illinois fans—we must protect the game from idiot pedants. And refs are all idiot pedants. That's the job: memorize this rule book and show up in front of thousands of people who hate you to enforce the rules of a meaningless game. Occasionally Kentucky fans dox you, and you kind of deserve it. This only appeals to the kind of person who loves correcting other people's mistakes more than he enjoys not having his life threatened. Only an idiot pedant signs up. TV Teddy is their king for a reason.

So. You get 30 seconds and then the screen turns off. Because if it's not obvious with three replays it's not worth correcting. Especially in a game like basketball where a gentleman's agreement not to foul someone out on some bullshit (unless their name is Mo Wagner) exists. Especially in a game like basketball that is lovely when it's flowing up and down the court and grimly dismal during its fouls-and-timeouts-and-more-timeouts-and-now-replays closing act.

Because if you didn't care about this game to start, and then got into it because it was terrific, you finished the game watching NCIS. Either figuratively, because it turned into a forensic exercise, or literally, because you changed the channel to one of the 17 different stations constantly playing NCIS.

Basketball should not have timeouts*, and it should take steps to assure replays are barely long enough to get one glue commercial in. Let's march to the grave properly distracted, people.

*[As previously discussed I am willing to accept a system where coaches can call timeout if they snip off one of their digits with garden shears and hand it to the ref.]

BULLETS

I will be very Brad Stevens. Stevens famously started walking towards the handshake line in some Butler game that came down to a buzzer-beater before that buzzer-beater went in or not, because one basket wasn't going to sway his opinion of his basketball team much. That's some cold-blooded Vulcan behavior and we'd do well to implement that in the aftermath here.

Michigan went toe to toe with a very very good team that was playing superbly, and the fact they lost is less important than they way they played. If you believe that opponent 3PT% is largely out of your control this game looks pretty dang good. And about that...

39607334181_36c871a57a_zA legion of Rip Hamiltons. Dan Dakich made an excellent point when he noted the sheer speed at which Purdue's gunners were running through their cuts and getting to their spots. Maybe half of Purdue's threes weren't drive-and-kick or extra-pass-to-exploit-rotation. They were lightning cuts off screens that Michigan didn't have much shot at defending. As I mentioned on twitter:

The difference is that Hamilton wasn't canning threes. Purdue is, at a Peak Beilein Team rate of 41%.

In this game Purdue hit 57% on a relatively high rate of threes (their 3PA/FGA of 37% is about the NCAA median), and I think that was more Purdue than Michigan. M has more or less maintained their ability to prevent launches from deep—currently 14th in the country—despite Billy Donlon's departure. They just ran into a buzzsaw.

[@ right: Campredon]

Hello, sir. Lovely of Isaiah Livers to provide sustenance to Ace in his time of need, what with his 249 ORTG. Ten points on four shots will do that. Especially when two of them are on this:

Remember last year when DJ Wilson would turn into the best basketball player in history for three minutes a game? Yeah. If Livers can add that kind of take to his suddenly-surging three point shooting... you know what? Never mind. I'm not trying to get him drafted.

Isaiah Livers is terrible. This is the end of the post, NBA scouts. Promise.

Anyway: since Big Ten play resumed Livers is 7/9 on twos and 7/8 on threes. He's also a clear upgrade from Duncan Robinson in all non-scoring ways. I think MGoBlog says this every 30 seconds, but it's past time to start him and let Robinson return to the microwave role he's excellent in.

This seems to be happening functionally: Livers as played 27 minutes against Purdue and Iowa. Now if Robinson could get his minutes when the opposition has 7th and 8th guys on the floor that would be *kisses fingers*.

 24739377507_25af84564f_z

7'3" guy on 2 guard [Campredon]

Panic on the streets of Lafayette. I don't know if Matt Painter's constant absurd switching was brilliant or idiotic. It was both? At the same time? Probably? Yes. It oscillated wildly between those two states on possession to possession basis.

On some possessions Michigan would stare blankly into the middle distance for 25 seconds before Charles Matthews thundered at a 7'2" or 7'3" guy with little success. On others Zavier Simpson would check to make sure he had the laces right on the basketball—another good Dakich catch—before lifting up in front of a helpless Isaac Haas. Michigan seemed to figure it out in the second half when they made their push to tie, and then it evaporated late on two or three horrendous offensive possessions, any one of which could have produced a game-winning basket.

I don't know. It's weird and desperate and I feel like if Michigan saw that kind of thing on a regular basis they'd destroy it. Since they don't you get a lot of isolation plays from a team that doesn't have a lot of good iso players, and the offense can turn into a confused slog. The rematch should be fascinating.

Teske is a dude. Michigan got a fast break bucket in the second half largely because Jon Teske was the tallest tree around; he emerged to get a DREB that looked more like an OREB because he was swarmed with dudes. That was a four-point swing. His extended PT in the second half saw Michigan get a point closer to Purdue, and while he didn't score his two OREBs and generally excellent defense were critical.

I don't think it's an exaggeration to say Michigan loses by ten if you replace Teske with Mark Donnal.

DREBs closer to real. In a similar vein: Michigan won the rebounding battle against Purdue with a 34% OREB rate vs Purdue's 24%. This isn't quite as much of an upset as it might seem like. Despite having the two biggest guys in the conference, Purdue's pretty meh on the boards.

They're not bad enough that Michigan will turn up its nose at a W in that category. You might want to sit down for this: Michigan is currently the best DREB team in Big Ten play. Please tell me you're not reading this while driving oh no you hit a tree.

A brief scheduling note. Michigan played Jacksonville during their annual Very Bad Team Invitational in December. This is going to be a boat anchor all year as the Dolphins trundle towards an 11-20 record, per Kenpom.

Purdue, on the other hand, scheduled Lipscomb. Lipscomb is also an Atlantic Sun team, but they're projected to win the conference. They've played four major-conference teams and lost by 22, 23, 10, and 22, but if and when they're 22-7 at the end of the year against a schedule virtually identical to Jacksonville they're going to be much less of an RPI disaster.

Michigan should be scheduling the Lipscombs of the world.

Comments

Steves_Wolverines

January 10th, 2018 at 1:11 PM ^

Let's get the Good out of the way first:

Livers is way too legit. He's going to be a star for this program if the NBA doesn't steal him away from us (a la DJ Wilson).

Zavier Simpson is turning into a dude. I love watching him and Rahk out there. They play so well in the half court offense. And you can now safely add their names to the list of guards that Beilein has crafted into legit offensive threats at Michigan.

Mo and Matthews are really good. But they may not be doing enough to warrant a spot in the first 40 picks of the NBA draft. Coming back is good for us. Coming back is bad for our current scholarship count. 

The Bad:

#22. Please bring him off the bench when the other team brings in their bench players. Having him and Mo out there at the same time makes our defense look like trash. I would love to see the numbers vs Purdue for the +/- of Mo/Duncan vs Teske/Livers. 

The refs. I'm still sick that this crazy good game had to end with two calls that should never be made in the final minute of a tied basketball game. Sure, call that a foul on Mo in the 1st half, just because. But to have a game decided on a call reversal that took 7 minutes, and you were probably not 100% sure of, and then give the team free throws on a clean steal minus the small grab (how much of an impact does that have on a dude who is 7' anyways??), just blows my mind. My blood is still boiling, and I'm sick and tired of not getting the benefit of the doubt. What's the point of home court/field advantage if the refs don't abide by the unwritten rules of the sport? I'm mad.

Squad16

January 10th, 2018 at 1:18 PM ^

Rough game; good write up. 

Lots of optimism to be had for this basketball team and its future. The home game against Ohio State feels like a must win in terms of program morale/a solid tournament resume boost with how the Buckeyes have been playing. If we can manage it, likely to be our best win of the season barring any road upsets in our favor.

Stealing one in East Lansing or West Lafayette would be amazing obviously, but we don't need either win to make the tournament; just probably need one for a 7+ seed. 

 

As for next year, is it possible that we could return everyone? I remember reading that Mo may end up coming back based on his draft projections. 

MNWolverine2

January 10th, 2018 at 1:16 PM ^

Game against Maryland on Monday is beyond critical.  Going to be coming off 2 emotional games and likely losses.  2 day tournaroun to play Maryland who will be coming off extende rest.  Lose that game and we are goign to be on the outside looking in of the tourney for a bit with zero room for error.  Win and we don't go below .500 in the Big Ten and get some momentum and rest back.

Long story short, Maryland game may swing our entire season.

Squad16

January 10th, 2018 at 1:21 PM ^

I don't think we'd be on the outside looking in yet; Purdue and MSU are Top 5 teams, we won't fall in our tournament prognosis at all for losing to both. 

 

If we lose to Maryland AND then 1/2 of @Nebraska, vs. Rutgers, we'll be on the wrong side of the bubble closing January. 

 

I think the most pivotal stretch is going to be the vs. Northwestern, vs. Minnesota, @Northwestern, @Wisconsin 4 game stretch. 4-0 there pretty much seals the tournament barring a wretched February/early March, 3 wins holds serve, but 2 or less would put us in troubling position, making the late February games must wins. 

ScruffyTheJanitor

January 10th, 2018 at 1:21 PM ^

Lipscomb is the perfect opponent because they may make the tournament, are relatively well coached, have one player (Garrison Matthews) that would actually be great in a Beilein offense-- and there is almost no chance of losing to them.

Bando Calrissian

January 10th, 2018 at 1:21 PM ^

Do you ever watch this stuff, have this crap happen again, and wonder if there's some kind of all-powerful force keeping Michigan from achieving anything? I cant help but consistently feel like everything is futile.

tnixon16

January 10th, 2018 at 1:31 PM ^

I think the comparison Brian was looking for was more Reggie Miller than Rip Hamilton. Hamilton couldn’t hit the three on the curl, as he noted. But Reggie Miller practically invented it. Or, John Starks?!?!

ijohnb

January 10th, 2018 at 2:25 PM ^

college Rip, but pro Rip was money from 18 feet if he got a breath.  But his curls were a little different than what we saw last night.  Rip leaned into catching the ball basically making all of his shots leaners.  I think the Purdue style of cut was more Reggie Miller like but Miller was a better stand still shooter than off cuts, both in transition and especially off offensive rebounds.  I like the Starks comparison the best of all of them.

Mgobluebilly

January 10th, 2018 at 1:35 PM ^

If only Michigan Football would play at a level to allow us to enjoy this caliber of writing from Brian.  I LOVE this site when Brian is this on.  I'm glad football is over and he doesn't have to muddle through articles about an underachieving team, all the while trying to find a positive in the chaos. This basketball team may drive you crazy with their on court mental indifference twice per game but, at times, they are incredibly fun to watch. If Coach B can get even 39:04 out of them per game, I wouldn't want to play them. 

AZBlue

January 10th, 2018 at 3:11 PM ^

You can do that in such a way that it doesn’t crater your RPI.

I know next to nothing about basketball scheduling but believe it isn’t done nearly as far out as football so you have at least a decent idea of whom will be decent among the lower tier teams.

Michigan4Life

January 11th, 2018 at 12:00 AM ^

lower tier teams tend to be crapshoot unless they have NBA player playing on the roster in which case, you're better off avoiding them in hope of not getting an upset.

A good example would be SDSU with Mike Daum who is probably the best stretch 4 in the country or Wofford with Fletcher McGee who is one of the best shooter in the country.

SDSU beat Ole Miss, actually led over Witchia State before losing to them, took Colorado to 2 OT before losing to them.

or
 

Wofford upset UNC and GT this season.

You can try to schedule them and think it'll be a comfortable win in which it doesn't crater your RPI. However, losing to them can hurt your resume.  That's a big reason why JB prefers to avoid tough mid major teams and load up on cupcakes to finetune his offense.

matty blue

January 10th, 2018 at 3:40 PM ^

this program, with this coach, can make a deep tournament run from any seed line, and i mean ANY line.

there's chatter that we want to avoid the 8/9 seed, which okay, sure, but can you honestly look at this team and think they couldn't go onto a neutral court and beat any team in the country?  do you think we have no chance against sparty on saturday?  or villanova, if we were to play them?  virginia?  texas tech?  hell, i can't even say that one without laughing.

put it another way - you think anyone is looking at us and not thinking "tough out?"  of course they are.  bring it on.

we need reps early in the season to figure things out.  i'm fine with that.

bronxblue

January 10th, 2018 at 1:42 PM ^

I've given up hope with replays in any sport making sense.  I was a big fan when they started to implement them, but at this point they exist mostly as a crutch for refs to second-guess/cover their asses when they don't want to make the right decision in the moment.  

That was not a TO.  There were a half-dozen plays earlier in the game where someone poked a ball away, and each time it went to the offense.  To suddenly grow a conscience in the last 10 seconds and want to "find the truth" is terrible and these referees should feel terrible.

Still, this team is going to ruin a couple higher-seeded teams in the NCAA tournament; Mark Hollis is going to try his best to make sure MSU isn't anywhere close to UM come tourney time.

Jonesy

January 10th, 2018 at 2:06 PM ^

Yup, that's offense's ball every time in the history of basketball even though of course it always brushes the offensive players fingers last after it's swiped out (and usually there's a foul that goes uncalled). Worst review in the history of college basketball, of course we're on the wrong end of it. Fucking refs, and fucking ridiculous 3 pt luck by Purdue, our defense was good and they were jacking up sprinting fading sideways hurried 3's with a hand in their face and making all of them. Why couldnt we haev just lost by 20 so I wouldn't care?

BrainwashedBlue

January 10th, 2018 at 2:19 PM ^

If that ball went downwards, it's off Purdue. Instead, it goes up, which has to mean Matthews moved the ball last, right? Took too long to look at and shouldn't have been reversed, but just to play devil's advcoate. Yes I'm a huge UM fan, no the "Brainwashed" name isnt to you, it's about me.

Fezzik

January 10th, 2018 at 5:01 PM ^

Exactly this.

Can we please let this logical accuracy trump 'the refs screwed us' BS. We all sound like a whiny bunch when we can admit the ball touched Matthews hand last yet still find arguments that it should of been our ball. It touched Matthews last but...gentlemens agreement. It touched Matthews hand last but....physics. 

matty blue

January 11th, 2018 at 9:31 AM ^

hey, let's introduce the phrase "logical accuracy" into the rulebook.  that way, when a replay does occur, we can ask them to not only look at the actual video on a frame-by-frame level for seven minutes, we can also ask them to justify the movement of the ball "logically," like kevin costner in an oliver stone fever dream ("back, and to the left.  back, and to the left.  back, and to the left").  if we're lucky, we can do that for EVERY SINGLE BALL THAT GETS SWATTED OUT OF SOMEONE'S HAND.

a much better way to approach all of this.  thanks.

Fezzik

January 11th, 2018 at 3:02 PM ^

I didn't suggest that at all. The rule is whoever touches the ball last, the other team gets the ball. It is fine as it is. The direction of the balll is a very telling sign of who hit the ball last. Being logical about it is having common sense. The refs saw who the ball touched last and made the call based on that. 

Rufus X

January 10th, 2018 at 2:23 PM ^

a) Holy crap is Wagner open - with 4-5 seconds left to set and shoot. *sigh

b) While reviewing the frame-by-frame, it would be nice if the refs would look at the fact that Matthews was probably fouled and, being comapssionate humans(LOL), let the original call stand.  Yeah right...

c) The reason I can't stop watching the clip over-and-over is that the crawler at the bottom of the ESPN feed is moving WAY too fast based on the fact that the video of the play itself has been slowed down.  What kind of sorcery is this?

The FannMan

January 10th, 2018 at 3:06 PM ^

The rule that ref only gets 30 seconds of replay is a great idea. I would go to 1 minute, but that’s it. If you can’t tell, after that then the call stands and let’s play ball.

ajchien

January 10th, 2018 at 3:16 PM ^

My issue is that if you're going to review that play for whom the ball touched last, you should be able to say that you also missed the foul where the defender got half ball-half hand causing the ball to pop loose. Get the whole play right.

Yessir

January 10th, 2018 at 4:30 PM ^

Gene Steratore is an ignorant fool. I hate to call someone that, cuz I inevitably misspell a word or 2- get something fundamentally wrong in my post and 3- I don't like calling people names like that.  That said, Gene Steratore is an damn fool.

He's an attention seeking whore bag.  It HAS to be about him.  He's worse than TV Teddy.  He pulled out an index card on national tv to check if the Raiders got a 1st down.  Attention seeking whore. 

There is NO WAY he could get 'indisputable video evidence' from the camera angles they replayed last night. The angle from the rim showed that the ball 'could have been touched Mathews' but did NOT show indesputable evidence it did. 

A really bad call by a dipshit ref that always wants to insert himself in the action.  He's horrible. 

Ok enuf of that... I understand that we had 3 bad possession coming down the stretch that could have changed the score.  That's baked in.  The call was still wrong.  You had an unranked team against the 5th ranked team.  We needed every possession to win.  A possession was stolen from us. A possession that could've won us the game or sent us to OT. 

Ok, rant over. I feel slightly better. 

 

Durham Blue

January 10th, 2018 at 5:12 PM ^

The ball flew sideways out of bounds which had to mean Matthews pushed it in that direction.  The Purdue player's hand and arm were making a downward motion when it contacted the ball.  I was pissed as they looked forever at the play but the more I looked the more I was convinced it was out on Matthews.  Correct call, IMO.

Maize4Life

January 10th, 2018 at 5:41 PM ^

determined the outcome of game, a season and the B10 standings...They RUINED this game and their were a Dozen mysterious calls in this game...

Orlando2

January 10th, 2018 at 6:04 PM ^

This game is going to bug me for a long time. We win that game and next week we’re ranked in the top 20. It hurts even more that the refs lost us that game.

Sambojangles

January 10th, 2018 at 6:24 PM ^

I hate the idea of a Gentleman's Agreement. The rules should be enforced as written, and if it is necessary, change the rule to be something consistently enforceable. The did it a few years ago to change the traveling rule to match what was actually being called. They should do the same with the ball out of bounds rule. Otherwise, I'm fine with the play being called as written. 

matty blue

January 11th, 2018 at 9:45 AM ^

have you ever - even once - said or thought "that's a good no-call"?

very, very few rules are "enforced as written," all the time.  there's holding on most plays in every football game.  hockey defensemen use the stick to gain leverage.  basketball defenders use their hands to gain position on just about every half court set.  shortstops slide around and over the bag when they turn the double play, catchers aren't allowed to block the basepaths if they don't actually have the ball in their hands, and the strike zone goes to "midpoint of the torso."

enforcing every rule as written would bring most sports to screeching halts, which is why there are "gentlemen's agreements" in the first place.

Yostal

January 10th, 2018 at 6:50 PM ^

I know that TV rules everything in determining tip times, but it is maddening that two teams in the Central Time Zone (Kentucky/TAMU) played in the 7:00 PM EST slot and two teams in the Eastern Time Zone played in the 9:00 PM EST slot.  I didn't want to want to watch this game because I knew it would end late and I would be tired when I got at up 5:30 (I know, this is an old person complaint.)

You swap those games, and the Michigan game is over by 9:15 PM EST and the Kentucky game is over by 10:15 CST.  That's way more of a win for everyone.

RickyPowers

January 10th, 2018 at 7:47 PM ^

This is such a ridiculous post.  First, it feeds into the stereotype of Michigan fans being terrible sore losers and blaming losses on refs.  Second, if the roles were reversed and the call WASN'T reversed, Brian wouldn't be talking about any "Gentelman's Agreement" - he would be raging against the officials, per usual. Third, calling all referees in all sports idiots is about as fucking immature as it gets.

Mp1228

January 11th, 2018 at 8:19 AM ^

Love the Rip Hamilton’s comment lol. He was great with the pistons, but man he was a killer in college at Uconn. I’ll never forget the team he was on that took down the Duke team that had Elton Brand and Trajon Langdon (wow I’m old). Cutting around and coming off screens for jumpers, it’s a lost art these days.