OT: 2018 MLB HOF class
January 24th, 2018 at 7:30 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:32 PM ^
is a beast
January 24th, 2018 at 7:33 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:35 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:37 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:40 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:42 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:56 PM ^
I loved Bonds as a player, but being a first rate D-bag to damn-near everyone he dealt with, and the steroids are keeping him out. His stats would have been good enough to get in. He wanted to be immortal, and it cost him.
January 24th, 2018 at 8:15 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 8:42 PM ^
You may not care that he cheated, but a lot of others do. And obviously he thought they gave him an advantage (and the fact that he suddenly hit 73 home runs in a season sure suggests they did).
Yeah, he probably could have been a HOF player without the roids. But he decided to cheat anyway.
January 24th, 2018 at 8:52 PM ^
...that's why a player of his caliber is still not in, while players like Chipper Jones are in. No slam on Jones, I was a huge fan while he was playing...but he's no Bonds.
It's an opinion. I'm not trying to move people off their spot, just pointing out mine.
January 24th, 2018 at 8:55 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 8:58 PM ^
January 25th, 2018 at 12:51 AM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:52 PM ^
You can tell pretty much down to the year or span of two years when Bonds started hitting the roids. He was on track for the HOF before that.
January 24th, 2018 at 7:46 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 8:57 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 9:05 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 9:22 PM ^
January 25th, 2018 at 5:27 AM ^
I think Willie Mays was better than Bonds. While Ruth seems to be the consensus greatest player ever, there are stiil many that give the nod to Mays.
January 24th, 2018 at 7:46 PM ^
If he had suffered a career-ending injury on the day he injected his first steroid, he would still be a hall-of-famer.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/bondsba01.shtml
His career pretty much followed a normal (superstar) path from age 21 to 34. Peak speed at the age of 25, peak power at the age of 28. Nothing out of the ordinary, other than the fact that he was a great ballplayer. And then weird things started happening in his mid-30s.
Credible steroid accusations would start in 1999 or 2000 for him. He was already a 500-HR hitter. He already had 400 SB. He already had 2000 hits.
So fine, ignore everything after 1999. Is he a hall of famer, ignoring everything after 1999? Clearly yes.
January 24th, 2018 at 7:49 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:55 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 8:36 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 9:47 PM ^
January 25th, 2018 at 2:09 PM ^
the fact of the matter is you can't ignore what he did and what he did was cheat while playing game. Sure many players did the same thing and they are all paying the price for it today.
In society you don't reward a person for cheating. He is still and all time great and he has the numbers to back it up, but he doesn't belong in a hall of other great players who never cheated the game and did it the right way their entire career.
January 24th, 2018 at 7:36 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:38 PM ^
I haven't heard too many of them coming out in favor of Clemens or Bonds.
January 24th, 2018 at 7:40 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:47 PM ^
earlier players took amphetimines like candy
January 24th, 2018 at 9:17 PM ^
Don't forget spitballs, pine tar, cocaine, emery boards, corked bats...
January 25th, 2018 at 5:34 AM ^
Willie McCovey was just quoted on that fairly recently. They took them to be able to get up enough energy to play the game everyday. It was about recovery then and about strength and recovery later. The steroid era got way out of hand with it but there is no denying the greats of the steroid era like Bonds, Clemens and McGwire. It is obviously a polarizing topic. I think they should be in just as Pete Rose should be in. This is based on nothing more than their performance on the field. Not sure if Pete will ever be granted the amnesty, but I do think the roiders will get in one day. May be well off into the future, but I think they will ultimately get there.
January 25th, 2018 at 6:30 AM ^
Amphs weren't illegal in the MLB until the early 2000s
January 24th, 2018 at 8:20 PM ^
I agree.
Sure, Bonds was an ass. Of course he was on 'roids.
But, MLB turned a blind eye to the issue for years. (Funny that no one important squawked when McGwire was delighting fans of "America's Sport.") Quite a few pitchers were juicing, too. You do what you need to do to get by, right?
Question: Where is the boundary placed? Who gets a pass? Who doesn't?
If I were in charge, Barry would be in the Hall of Fame.
January 24th, 2018 at 8:57 PM ^
A HOF with Selig but no Bonds/Clemens is total hypocrisy.
January 24th, 2018 at 8:41 PM ^
January 25th, 2018 at 12:11 AM ^
type of steroids.
January 24th, 2018 at 7:43 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 8:08 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:50 PM ^
I agree. I know that the guy cheated. He was still one of the best to ever play the game without the steroids. What he did, even on steroids, is incredibly impressive. Even before the roids he was a generational pro player. He should be in the Hall, and so should Pete Rose. Throw whatever disclaimer you want on their plaque, but those are two of the best bats to ever play.
January 24th, 2018 at 7:36 PM ^
Vlad was incredible watching as a kid. Had a ridiculous arm and the way he just kind of flicked his wrists to move the bat just before a pitch was kind of hypnotizing. Then he'd hit an ankle high pitch into the opposite field bleachers. Incredible.
Also happy to see Hells Bells get in. Never really felt he got the national run he should have. You knew the changeup was coming and people still couldn't hit it.
January 25th, 2018 at 2:02 PM ^
Vlad's peak years he was toiling away in Montreal so he could have easily been overlooked. Good for him.
January 24th, 2018 at 7:36 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 9:06 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 7:39 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 8:39 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 8:46 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 9:04 PM ^
I'm fine with Hoffman getting in. Saves, like wins, are a very arbitrary and often useless stat. He only threw barely over 1000 innings in his career which is around what a starter would throw in 6 or so seasons. Sabermetrics and peripheral stats (K/9, K/BB, ERA+, WAR, FIP, etc.) don't love the guy. I understand why people don't want him in.
But at the same time the reason why like those sabermetrics and peripheral stats is to help us predict who will be successful in the future. If you strike guys out and don't put guys on base you're more likely to be consistently good in the future. But if you're a guy like Hoffman who was consistently good without being overly dominant, does it matter? An out is an out, and he got a bunch of them at a highly successful rate.
Hoffman's role was to do one thing, get saves. And he was great at it, 2nd best of all time. We now know the role is overrated, but it's not Hoffman's fault that role was valued at the time, and he was so successful at it. I don't like punishing him for that. And despite that, he has the 21st best WPA of all time for pitchers (ahead of guys like Ryan, Marichal, Koufax, Gossage etc.) so it's not like he didn't provide immense value to his team. I'm okay with him being in. If I had a vote I would have put others guys in over him (Edgar, Bonds, Clemens to name a few), but I'm good with him being in there.
January 24th, 2018 at 9:17 PM ^
January 24th, 2018 at 9:33 PM ^
I'm not gonna argue against that. Like I said, I would have voted for other guys before Hoffman, Wagner would have been one, but I also still think Hoffman deserves to be in.