How are we supposed to maintain a culture recruting pitch?

Submitted by Speed_in_Space on January 29th, 2024 at 1:13 PM

Are we really going to be able to continue the culture recruiting pitch in light of the coaching shakeup? Send me to Bolivia for this one and neg me as much as you want, but I'm not seeing how we're supposed to continue the Michigan culture sales pitch to recruits going forward. We laugh at OSU and all these NIL schools for me first culture and a mercenary approach but we just had a former head coach talk about loving the program and wanting to build a permanent home and that he wanted to be considered a Michigan Man at the end of his life only to leave for the first shiny new thing out there.

Now all our assistants could be jumping ship and we're supposed to go around telling recruits to come buy into "the team, the team, the team" and our culture and not jump at the first shiny thing that comes along when the staff and coaches don't follow their own advice?

If this the only selling point we have going for us on the recruiting trail, we're going to be in a lot of trouble because it's only going to take a quick rebuttal from Day, Franklin, Lanning, etc pointing out transformational rather than transactional is just a bunch of snake oil.

goblu330

January 29th, 2024 at 1:46 PM ^

I do not believe that.  I know Angelique reported that, vaguely.  But in my opinion, the University could not possibly agree to that contract (which may have actually been illusory and not enforceable).  I think they offered him more money, but not all of his terms.  He wanted to go to the NFL man.  He would have left last year for the Vikings.

NJblue2

January 29th, 2024 at 2:15 PM ^

Yeah losing some of the best parts of your coaching staff is just a massive loss. They're losing a bunch on offense, pretty much the whole offense, and they haven't recruited great the last couple of years so it's scary for sure.

I think all these losses, combined with a harder schedule and Moore's just inexperience, it just seems like Michigan will take a huge step back next year and maybe even the year after. I don't want to go back to mediocre seasons, so Moore has a lot of pressure on him to nail all these openings which is tough ask.

GeneFunk

January 29th, 2024 at 1:20 PM ^

I mean this in the nicest way possible, but you need to log off of the internet for a bit. 

The sheer panic that has come out of this fanbase, yourself included, over the past week is ridiculous. 

Harbaugh took some coaches. Every coach that leaves takes coaches. Sherrone Moore has support from a variety of people, trust that you might have something good still without panicking that it just got up and left and it's the Hoke days all over again.

AlbanyBlue

January 29th, 2024 at 1:21 PM ^

I would be pitching two things:

** The players that stayed made Team 144 what it was. They stayed. They won the title. And they did it together.

** Players at Michigan get developed, then decide to stay, then get developed some more, and when they finally do end their careers, they get drafted into the league.

It's a difficult hurdle to get over losing coaches, but that's how I would do it.

NittanyFan

January 29th, 2024 at 1:22 PM ^

You're worrying WAY too much.

Change happens in life.  Especially in college football.  It's inevitable.  May as well yell at the clouds.

But Michigan remains a blue-blood program with a shit-ton of structural advantages versus most other schools.

That doesn't guarantee future National Titles, but Michigan will always be fairly well positioned to do well.

Honker Burger

January 29th, 2024 at 1:23 PM ^

You’re probably right, I can’t see a single kid wanting to play for Michigan anymore moving forward.
 

What do you think they’ll turn the Big House into now that football’s done?

King Tot

January 29th, 2024 at 1:24 PM ^

IIRC Jim Harbaugh claims Moore made him love football again. The culture will be more than fine.

Edit: added IIRC because I could not find the quote.

Bluesince89

January 29th, 2024 at 1:35 PM ^

Not that I doubt you, but where did he say? I'd never heard that and it's pretty cool. While I would have preferred JH to stay, I was always fine with Moore as his hand-picked successor and this just affirms that. If you trust him, then you have to trust him to pick who follows him. 

michgoblue

January 29th, 2024 at 1:24 PM ^

I understand where you are going, but I don't agree.  Harbaugh is a unicorn, and also just a weird dude.  My honest sense from his introductory press conference is that he always wanted to be in the NFL where he could compete for a Lombardi Trophy, but that having watched his beloved Michigan toil through a decade of disaster, he felt an obligation to come back and right the ship.  I always got the sense that he came he with a specific mission - restore the program, get us back on par with Ohio State, win a big ten championship and hopefully a national championship.  Then he could go back to the NFL knowing that he did what he felt needed to be done for his school.  And he did that. 

And when a head coach leaves, it is common for members of his staff to follow him.  Some of those following Jim out also followed him in.  Ultimately, the culture starts with the head coach and Moore is a branch of the Harbaugh tree, and will certainly be retaining a number of staff members.  In addition, the culture is fostered by the senior leadership on the team.  While a lot of our guys graduated or are on to the NFL, we have a ton of returning upperclass leadership to keep the culture vibe going.

Blue Vet

January 29th, 2024 at 1:24 PM ^

A coach who led the team to the national championship and then accepts a job coaching an NFL team is chasing "the first shiny new thing that's out there"? 

EastCoast Esq.

January 29th, 2024 at 1:25 PM ^

The pitch is that if you commit yourself to being a Michigan Man and to doing what's best for The Team, you will win now AND later.

Jim didn't stop being a Michigan Man when he signed on to coach the Chargers, just like he didn't stop being a Michigan Man when he coached Stanford. He managed to reach the pinnacle of college sports and now he is gunning to reach the pinnacle of professional sports.

This is what players talk about when Michigan pitches the 30-year plan. Sure, if you go to some other schools you might make more money coming into the door. At Michigan, though, you're set up to succeed for life, both financially and professionally.

The message doesn't change, only the messenger does -- and not even really the messenger. Moore has been doing an incredible job of making the Michigan Pitch for the last few years, and now he's just doing it as the head guy.

unWavering

January 29th, 2024 at 1:27 PM ^

"all our assistants are jumping ship?"

We've lost 2 assistants by my count.  One of which was never going to stay in college and the other likely got offered an unreasonable amount of money.

Anyway this is Moore's program now, who better to carry on the program culture than the guy who was Harbaugh's explicit understudy?

RobM_24

January 29th, 2024 at 1:51 PM ^

Two so far. A third expected (Jay). And "insider" rumblings that Elston, Campbell, and Newsome are also being targeted by Harbaugh. As well as Abigail O'Connor.

Not insider related, but Hart has been oddly absent and not heard from. 

With Partridge already gone last year, losing Elston would be big, IMO. You basically have no day-to-day connection between defensive players and the current staff (HC, DC, strength coach, and position coaches gone) -- with exception of Clink.

Clink oddly posted a short vid that said "mood" and having a guy throwing up a middle finger. Maybe it was just some weird unrelated post, but now I'm wondering if it has something to do with being the only one not brought along by Harbaugh to the NFL from the defensive side. 

markp

January 29th, 2024 at 1:28 PM ^

Having a strong culture and playing for team doesn't necessarily mean that everyone stays together for a hundred years. For everything, there is a season.

It's not like Harbaugh came to AA and left 18 months later for greener pastures and a stack of cash. He was extremely committed to this team and culture while he was here, stayed for nearly a decade, led the team to incredible success, and now is onto a new chapter.

Baxter

January 29th, 2024 at 1:30 PM ^

Leaving:

Head coach and his son

Defensive coordinator

S&C Coach

Running backs coach

 

Currently staying:

OC (now HC)

OL

QB (now OC?)

DE

S

WR

DB

Assistant S&C (now head S&C) coach

 

The culture here started upfront with the offensive and defensive lines. Maintain the culture of accountability and togetherness. It's a massive stretch to say "all of our assistants" could be jumping ship. Next man up. 

Rhino77

January 29th, 2024 at 1:30 PM ^

I know some of you are young and your only point of reference to Michigan winning is Jim Harbaugh, but Michigan has a huge history of winning under many different coaches.
 

Let’s not pretend that Harbaugh owns the Michigan culture.  

UMgradMSUdad

January 29th, 2024 at 1:31 PM ^

Everybody on the team, the team, the team, coaches and players alike, aspires to one day make it in the NFL. Harbaugh has been up front with the team about this. 

goblue2121

January 29th, 2024 at 1:35 PM ^

Sherrone has been around the sport a while both as coach and player.  He relates to players very well by all accounts.  He was arguably the top recruiter on the staff.  Most players envision going to the NFL, so having coaches that jump to the NFL is a pretty good selling point IMO.  

sdogg1m

January 29th, 2024 at 1:42 PM ^

The University of Michigan athletic department is in for a rude awakening as college football has morphed into this quasi-professional league. Thriving on brand and institutional recognition alone will not produce championship level teams. Michigan has to be willing to compete in all areas at the highest level including staffing, recruiting, managing PR, and NIL.

There are a lot of cope and hope posts on this forum that seems to be disconnected with reality. We are hoping Moore does well but no on really knows if he will. We are hoping that the next S&C hire will be just as good but we don't know. We are hoping that the Michigan name will rise above that of Ohio State spending 10 million+ dollars on their NIL recruits.

I have seen a poster stating next year being house money but I know that is stupid. If we lose at Texas at home by a large margin then we will all come back down to reality.

You are not the leaders and best because you decided to label yourself as such, you need to earn it and keep earning it. The idea that we deserve to stay on top regardless of what happens because we are Michigan is an attitude of entitlement. The Michigan athletic department cannot make poor decisions and hope that the Michigan name can overcome it.

Warde is definitely a bad hire that needs to be fired. Moore is a great guy and a good coach but he is being setup for failure. If the team goes 9-3 or worse next year and losses to Ohio State then the honeymoon is over. He will be given roughly four years but if they yield poor results then we very well could be looking at three to four years to recover from what is essentially an experimental hire. Eight years of mediocrity for recovery is a long period.

As for me, I think I am done being a diehard fan, I can no longer worry about a program that I have no control over and be this emotionally interested in it. I am getting too old. The end of the Carr run (except 2006), the RichRod years, the Hoke years was a long stretch of mediocrity. The adding of a million commercials and four hours of watching on essentially what is between 50-60 minutes of content doesn't help. I'll still support the team and take my mom to the games but I am moving beyond letting the program affect my emotional well-being.

Bluesince89

January 29th, 2024 at 1:50 PM ^

Re: the experimental hire comment. Who else would you have hired at this point? The timing of it essentially left us with no other options. Lanning and Sark apparently told Alabama they were happy with their current situations, so they're likely not leaving for Michigan if they turned down Alabama. Otherwise, who else was available? DeBoer already went to Alabama. The Kansas coach? I'd rather try my hand at Moore. Diaz? Hard pass. I'm honestly trying to figure out who would have been available or would have been willing to walk away from their job and who would be a clear upgrade over Moore and I'm coming up blank.

rice4114

January 29th, 2024 at 2:50 PM ^

Here was your one shot at something different:

Jedd Fisch/Maxxx $$$ and a ton of losses in coaching and players. He might even be a better coach than Moore (this is just hypothetical) but after gutting a roster that has no superstar recruits to replace them this would be a mini- Rich rod set up. 

Moore is it like it or not (and I like it) now make that man and this program a superstar recruiting program and you got something. 15th nationally year after year will catch up eventually. 

sdogg1m

January 29th, 2024 at 2:55 PM ^

Personally I would fire the guy who has managed to drum up fake support by many on this forum the moment Harbaugh walked: Warde.

There is absolutely no evidence of success under his tenure (he did not hire Harbaugh) and no reason he should still have a job. Hire an AD who understands that the college football program is the face of your athletic department and even your school. If I were tasked then I would evaluate men and then hire based on who I concluded would do the best job with the changing landscape of college athletics.

If I were the Michigan AD I would make sure I had a functioning relationship with the head coach and know what his priorities are and assess them in regards to the success of the athletic department and football team. I would always have a list of professionals that I thought could be a potential replacement for the head coach and made sure I had some sembelance of a relationship with them. I would contact them immediately when I needed to.

You think it is a coincidence that Alabama hired DeBore three days after Saban retired?

Some of the coaches on my short list would have been Jedd Fisch, Kalen DeBoer, Dan Lanning, Lane Kiffin, and Jeff Brohm.

Jim Hackett is an example of someone who handled this process brilliantly when hiring Harbaugh. Warde's dysfunctional relationship with Jim Harbaugh all but guaranteed that Michigan would be at a disadvantage hiring outside the program.

 

goblu330

January 29th, 2024 at 1:51 PM ^

What the actual f.....

We won the national championship THIS YEAR.  Less than a month ago.

Certainly college football is going through some changes but it is highly likely that Harbaugh was not willing to change with it.  Moore is young and moldable, and certainly very talented. There is no reason to think he isn't going to get this and adapt to it.

 

sdogg1m

January 29th, 2024 at 2:32 PM ^

Read my entire post again. I am happy that we won the national championship but next year is coming.

Guess this national championship automatically means Michigan will play at a high level next year with one of the hardest schedules in the nation? Not even Harbaugh had to go through a gauntlet as difficult. My prediction of 9-3 is not unrealistic. 

You honestly think a man with no head coaching experience at a school that has the highest of expectations will excel? I know the arguments about his experience on the staff but those are your assumptions. You have absolutely no proof that Moore will succeed because none exists.

By the way Harbaugh's endorsement doesn't mean results will follow either. Michigan was smart to hire Jim Harbaugh. They are not smart to hire a coach with zero experience leading a program. The program also demonstrates a lack of awareness regarding the impact NIL will have on the sport going forward. 

Sorry buddy but Michigan (and guys like you) think Michigan will win because it's Michigan, that does not matter anymore in college football.

 

Killer Khakis

January 29th, 2024 at 1:43 PM ^

Id imagine many players figured this would happen. The fact that Moore, Paige, Stewart, and Edwards all elected to return probably indicates that they were made aware Moore is the HC, staff shakeups are afoot, and that they can play a pivotal role in repositioning the program as leaders. We may lose a player in the portal, I expect it. It’s the price of being good and losing a coach, it was bound to happen with Harbaugh at some point. Also he’s allowed to take his staff, he owes Michigan nothing more, and if our staff is good enough to all go to the NFL, it shows how well coached and prepped the players were. Can’t be mad at coaches like players wanting to go pro.

rhamada

January 29th, 2024 at 1:44 PM ^

It's amazing the wording some of you use to blame Harbaugh for everything.  Is it possible he saw the NCAA coming after him if he stayed at Michigan and the Board, AD, and President refusing to support him publicly?  He was asking, in writing, for support from all of the above if the NCAA decided to come after him again.  He wanted written protection that he wouldn't be the scape goat for an AD who Harbaugh didn't ultimately trust. I actually think Warde is happy about this situation.  Harbaugh has earned the right to have whatever protection, pay, and benefits he wanted written into his contract.  They refused to give it to him.  That proved to him that his career at Michigan going forward was in limbo.  If your career was in limbo at the place you love, would you take the next best offer?  It would be utter stupidity for him to stay knowing he could get fired the following year for what we all know is nonsense.