The OSU Dirt - Can It Even Be Weopnized
Many of you will poo-poo this post and don't think I'm credible, but I know for a fact as do most folks that are actual insiders at Schembechler Hall (which I am not), that UM has binders and folders full of dirt on mainly OSU and other programs from just the past decade. Some has indeed been reported and the NCAA just ignored it. I would love for Brian or Sam Webb or others to confirm, but my buddy who was formerly employed by the AD is not a bullshitter, has shared just what he knows...and I'm certain it goes much deeper than what he - an assistant staffer - knew.
I'm disgusted we capitulated give the PI investigation and PR hit job led by OSU. And yes, it was OSU that hired the PI. The entire situation is fucking absurd for a level 3 violation.
1) OSU has been playing players for years, well before NIL
2) OSU continues to pay players (just for recruiting visits - CHEATING!, even under NIL). I have 4 names of commits from this fucking cycle they paid for visits (illegal!) and then promised very nice packages (legal). Let's just say Larry Johnson wasn't pulling in the 5 stars this cycle until Ryan Day asked for $15mil more in NIL - which was misappropriated towards visits.
I absolutely guarantee what happened with SIGNGATE!!!! would make other programs look like serial killers if all cards were put on the table. Anybody that knows the inner working of NCAA football, at places like Bama, UGA, OSU, and are saying anything about UM right now, are absurd hypocrites, projecting like crazy, or have an agenda to push (CLICKS!).
Further, this is so fucking absurd as the NCAA has had a hard-on for Harbaugh since the satellite camps and then his comments on rev share. It doesn't take a genius to see what this is about.
The NCAA which is supposed to help and promote college athletes does everything in their power to limit their financial upside and optionality, then shit on a coach and label him a "cheater" based on what is at most a level 3 violation. ESPN, Thamel, etc getting clicks for the outrage machine and rival fanbases with soft shit teams crying like bitches.
I know with 99% certainty that UM has a ton of dirt on OSU.
The question now is, how to weaponize it and leave or at least damage the B1G. UM was sooooo far behind on this in the PR war, that their intel is essentially useless at this point. Anything that drips out now will still pale in comparison to SIGNGATE!, and that is what's most frustrating here.
I know, for a fact, after the Rutgers, OSU, Purdue collusion was pushed out, and it barely moved the national media dialogue and narrative on UM, there was a sense of defeat in the athletic dept. about how leaking trash about OSU would help UM. UM got beat off the field on this one, no other way to really spin it.
Downvote me to hell, I'm sure many don't believe what my buddy has shared at this point, but I am steadfast in the amount of dirt UM has on OSU, and the firms that UM hired to investigate what happen - helped uncover the Don Brown stolen signals issue, the Rutgers - OSU - Purdue collusion, as well as the fact that OSU continues to break bagging rules (confirmed) even after NIL. One of the firms is also conducting an internal investigation on UM's own "signgate" fwiw - as they attempt to get all the facts to cleanse the situation as much as possible.
I wish a real "insider" or Brian or Webb would confirm what I'm saying and more importantly, wish UM could find a way to weaponize the info.
Downvote me to hell, shit on my credibility - but I know what's been shared to some level
And...Fuck the B1G, Fuck the NCAA.
November 17th, 2023 at 6:12 PM ^
This 100%. The past month has been exhausting. Although what’s transpired is absolutely horrific, victory could be much more sweet next Saturday is we beat the crybabies with our offensive coordinator.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:02 PM ^
Michigan got sucker punched by the national narrative and reacted too little too late. You can't rely on the likes of JUB when others used national platforms.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:02 PM ^
Dude I am not going to downvote you. They probably do have it. I just don't see UM weaponizing that info. They are not cheap. I know our morals took some hit but it is who this university is. I am fine with it. Run a clean program and I am ok with not playing in the mud with pigs, ala, rest of the B1G.
The only thing I want to see happen is we leave this conference. I just don't care for B1G or the rivalry with OSU.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:07 PM ^
If Michigan has actionable dirt (not holding my breath) they should "do unto others" here. (I agree with Pkf97's post elsewhere on UM's inferior PR. That would need to be considered.) OSU will do the same to UM at the next opportunity.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:53 PM ^
We are never ever leaving the Big Ten over this. Big Ten Academic Alliance universities engage in $10 billion in funded research each year. We aren't going to jeopardize that.
November 17th, 2023 at 3:32 PM ^
You can still be part of that Alliance. There is no rule that says you have to leave the Academic alliance if you leave the Athletic alliance.
November 17th, 2023 at 5:31 PM ^
As if there are no other academic alliances to join that are as good or better with our presence.
November 17th, 2023 at 3:15 PM ^
"Run a clean program and I am ok with not playing in the mud with pigs, ala, rest of the B1G."
I understand completely where you're coming from....but man, I gotta tell you, Michigan just got a series of back stabs from its own conference over the last month or so. From schools that are supposed to be business partners. And there is little to no indication that stuff like this is going to stop in the future. Especially if Harbaugh is here long-term. All we've done is enable their behavior. ESPECIALLY if you have information you know can hurt them and you choose not to put it out to the masses.
You want to be above getting down into the mud with the other pigs? Fine, but as far as we can tell, playing that way is doing nothing for you, and the "pigs" who are playing in the mud have found ways that they can really hurt you. What is your answer to that? That "we're above that and we won't get down in the mud"? If that's it, you should expect to keep getting attacked. You've given your enemies zero incentive to call the dogs off. In fact, you've done the opposite. You've enabled them.
There's a scene in the movie Identity Thief that feels especially relevant here. Not a great movie, but a relevant moment. Jason Bateman and Melissa McCarthy are sitting down to dinner, and McCarthy plays a character who has stolen Jason Bateman's identity, cleaned out his bank accounts and lives large off his dime, and Bateman has to chase her down after he's been wrongly arrested for fraud due to her activities. Bateman is a straight-laced, play by the rules kind of guy and he prides himself on it. McCarthy's character laughs at him, asks him at one point "Oh you play by the rules, do you? Yeah, how's that working out for you?" She's a criminal and a slimeball, but she had a point.
There's a reason they say "Nice guys finish last."
I'm not advocating for Michigan going and looking for trouble, but when someone goes for the jugular on you, especially someone that you should be calling your own business partner....if you have a counter-punch you'd better damn well be using it and making sure you put that chump down for good. Otherwise you're just enabling them, the same way a school yard bully is enabled when you walk away and don't defend yourself.
So why on Earth should they stop trying to drag you down?
November 17th, 2023 at 5:58 PM ^
The thing I don't understand is how the rest of the BigTen doesn't understand that you are living off TV money that doesn't exist without Michigan. If Michigan leaves the Big Ten, Ohio State has to follow and the other current teams are fucked. Penn St can probably find a good landing spot, but the rest are joining the MAC!
November 17th, 2023 at 2:02 PM ^
Even if the dirt was there, at this point I have zero confidence in Michigan's ability to play the PR game properly. It would probably just end up hurting us somehow.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:26 PM ^
I don't think OSU's PR apparatus is some amazing machine; they helped break the story because they were behind the investigation. That first-mover advantage is hard to overcome, and then you've got guys like Thamel and Dellenger copy-pasting anything that comes out as gospel so you're sort of stuck if you're UM. UM could have played it better but they're starting the race a lap down and it's hard to make it all up. And when they do release information about the collusion the media doesn't make a big deal about it because the narrative is set.
UM's best chance is to, unfortunately, just wait this all out, take the punches, and then drop info as they need to in the future. I'm sure OSU is aware there is shit out there about them, and at some point it'll be advantageous to drop said info and then they'll have to deal with it.
November 17th, 2023 at 3:12 PM ^
If any other program in the country had for several years possessed alleged "binders" full of truly incriminating and evidence-based dirt on their major rivals, do you think it would still be held in secret?
Would Auburn sit on stuff about Alabama? Would Texas sit on stuff about OK or A&M? Would Oregon sit on stuff about USC or Washington? I doubt they would.
Either Michigan doesn't possess anything truly actionable, or it's too prim and proper to ever consider using it.
November 17th, 2023 at 4:07 PM ^
Would Auburn sit on stuff about Alabama? Would Texas sit on stuff about OK or A&M? Would Oregon sit on stuff about USC or Washington? I doubt they would.
Yes, they absolutely would. In fact, A&M started opening up on Bama and Bama responded before the SEC told them to shut up. The SEC wants to protect what it's built. For some reason, the B1G wants to tear down Michigan.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
Only one with credibility to release it is Larry Lage..the rest of the "insiders" will not release it unless it is on pay site and dance around it for clicks
November 17th, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
I'll play. short answer is no - not right now. Anything done now, while admitting some culpability, looks incredibly petty. Last week's news dump WAS effective. This week's facts change the game some - although the original crime looks minor. The cover up was the problem. A 3 game suspension is fair for that, even if delivered bass ackwards.
IF we're inclined, we can dump news to throw shade years later. I don't know to what point or purpose though. 2 days ago things felt unfair. Today, they sorta kinda came into line. But it still doesn't really taint the last 3 years to me, so I think the smart thing is to move on, fire the rule breakers, win games and de-escalate.
Tony Pettitti still acted very unprofessionally and set a stupid precedent and damaged our relationship with the league but at this point we don't have the righteous indignation anymore to do anything about it.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
nice try Tim Smith burner account
November 17th, 2023 at 2:09 PM ^
November 17th, 2023 at 2:17 PM ^
If that’s the case, Partridge showed his true colors and they also appear to be orange and black. RAWR!
November 17th, 2023 at 2:48 PM ^
Partridge being busted at some point for questionable behaviors should be on everone's bingo card. He was shady as a high school coach. Went to Ole Miss and learned the inner workings of the SEC.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
If you know there's dirt, and you can talk about said dirt, why are you posting it here? Signal boost the shit out of it on social media, send it to the NCAA/Big Ten, hell hire a PI and give it to him.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:04 PM ^
I believe the new NCAA rules have the equivalent of a two year statute of limitations. So, in that case, there would be no penalty handed down to Ohio.
If the PI stuff is true in the last two years, I believe the most we can hope for is some kind of computer crime. Ideally, some shaming of how petty Ryan Day is. But he seems pretty confident he’s covered his tracks.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:04 PM ^
The problems with this "dirt" is that the genie is out of the bottle on paying players. No one cares anymore
November 17th, 2023 at 2:04 PM ^
Can I just borrow these folders and binders for a day? I’m sure it’s just collecting dust. I promise I’ll return it.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:04 PM ^
I wanted to write something similar. I’ll let you take the beating. We need to be smarter. Hire a PI firm. Have it come from a “third party” so it doesn’t look like sour grapes.
Also, “evidence” of paying players is tough to move to action when FBI wire taps didn’t move the needle.
But, yes. We should go scorched earth and bombard the B1G, NCAA and media with OSU shenanigans. Money cannon be damned.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:23 PM ^
Your comment/solution just made me realize that college football is no longer fun.
Not saying you’re wrong and that Michigan shouldn’t expose others but in the middle of an undefeated season, on the cusp of 1,000 wins, and probably the biggest rivalry game ever played in the history of The Game, we have been served verifiable shit outside the actual games for the past month. Kinda sad is all.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:57 PM ^
I agree. This is a once-in-a-generation team. I was a junior in 1997 and went to every game. This team is even better than they were (outside of Woodson). Its sad that we're not able to enjoy this season. They don't happen too often.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:05 PM ^
It comes down to whether M is willing to potentially do harm to those that may be collateral damage in a scorched earth play (e.g., athletes at other schools now that took money from osu for visits). If they can pull it off and shine a light on the other schools, conference and NCAA (with the proof of their own prior reports of violations that neither governing body did anything about by including proof of those submissions), I'm definitely in favor.
Monday: announce Harbaugh's extension
Tuesday: leak something, with facts, about other schools
Wednesday: leak something that also implicates failure to investigate by the NCAA
Friday: drop the most salacious of all the past items that could implicate multiple others
Saturday: after whoopin' dat ass, tell rtbd to eat a bag of phalices
November 17th, 2023 at 2:06 PM ^
I think it's been pretty clearly shown that Michigan is not willing to do any of that. There was a lot of talk about scorched earth, binders, hardline messages from Santa and Warde, and what was the result? A 3-game suspension.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:05 PM ^
-- other programs look like serial killers if all cards were put on the table.
That's why those other schools would sacrifice Michigan to save themselves.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:06 PM ^
Everyone cheats, just be smart about how you’re doing it.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:09 PM ^
So release every fucking page to multiple sites and whoever … what the fuck are they waiting for
November 17th, 2023 at 2:09 PM ^
LEAVE THE BIG 10
November 17th, 2023 at 2:11 PM ^
If they don’t then they deserve everything that is coming to them … this is not over with sign gate and if the AD and Ono think it is then they are fools !!!
November 17th, 2023 at 2:51 PM ^
The NCAA is giving information they find to the Big Ten to penalize Michigan. It won't necessarily stop if they leave the Big Ten, unfortunately. If the money is here, they are staying because the loss won't change the target.
November 17th, 2023 at 3:09 PM ^
The SEC would laugh at the NCAA's passed-on information. They've got a warehouse full of it already.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:10 PM ^
If it's there, it won't do anything right now. They won by weaponizing ESPN against us. We need to stop being mad at our own school for "rolling over" and instead blame the outside entities who actually did this and did it very effectively. The narrative is shaped for the time being. If the news about us ever stops, maybe we can shape the narrative at some later time, but we can't outshout anyone when there's already this much info out there on us and it just keeps coming
November 17th, 2023 at 7:01 PM ^
This needs more upvotes. If there is evidence releasing now is a horrible play timing-wise. It will get buried and contrasted with UM. You need to give it time and let this story die down.
The long game here is: let the season play out. We’ve taken our hit. Swallow it and win games. Then next year find a good national reporter to launder the story if there is evidence. It will get the focus.
If there’s not evidence right now, there is zero reason that we shouldn’t be hiring a PI firm to investigate and find some. There will be some at very program. Fuck it, the Big Ten and NCAA seemed to have no issue with private investigators so this is a new field of warfare. Might as well embrace this and fire the booster money cannon on digging up dirt if this is how it’s going to be.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:10 PM ^
Why would you be negged??We already know who the cheaters are and they've voted against us to not allow us into a Championship before. However, this time they cannot! We will play them for all the marbles!!! This isn't your 1973 Michigan Wolverines. We may get 900 yards this time instead of 90!!!
GO BLUE
November 17th, 2023 at 2:11 PM ^
OK, let's assume this is true.
Imagine the very worst thing you can. Imagine even that Michigan's already fully investigated it (which is unlikely). Then imagine Michigan trying to leak it right now.
It does nothing. No matter what it is, we just look petty and vindictive and it gets no media play except ridicule. Even if it involves serious criminal activity, it makes no difference.
There's nothing to do but let those guys do their jobs, take the hits and bide our time and consider our options. And win the games.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:53 PM ^
OK, I'll play my own game.
The worst thing I can imagine--and it's the longest of long shots--is condogate. If there were actually a fire behind that smoke, it would truly move the needle in a big big way.
And even then, it would be pointless to even hint at anything publicly. The only thing to do would be to pass everything we had to law enforcement, and wait.
There are no effective, friendly media outlets right now. No enforcement body inside the athletics world is going to act on anything we give them right now. There can't be an effective counterattack until the attack we're countering has fizzled.
November 17th, 2023 at 5:31 PM ^
This is incorrect in that the entire reason we are being punished at all right now is that the private info on us was leaked en masse to the media, who along with the MSU AD drummed up a baseless yet instant frenzy, and then the NCAA was pressured from the outside to jump in. Handing things over in secret is not the way to do any of this. Nor is Michigan standing at a podium calling out the cheaters. The method Ohio State used was essentially perfect and would just need to be reversed.
November 17th, 2023 at 6:18 PM ^
I don't disagree with that. But their method took three years or so, and people want to reverse it in two weeks. That's not how it works.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:11 PM ^
Our leadership would never do that. We are Michigan, the Leaders and the Best. We don't tattle and we fold like a cheap chair when faced with adversity from other members of our conference!
Hail!
November 17th, 2023 at 2:12 PM ^
Release it. Don’t much care that people think that it is petty or not.
Just getting it out there to filter around the internet and social media is good enough for me. Burn,baby, burn.
November 17th, 2023 at 4:40 PM ^
I have been brainstorming a “burn, baby, burn” approach to this. It’s an (admittedly) highly deranged, scorched-earth tactic. And fortunately, it does not require a single national journalist, Michigan beat writer, or cooperative NCAA investigator to deploy. It just requires Michigan to (a) actually have the goods and (b) have the courage to deploy them
It’s quite simple. Here’s what we do:
1.) On Michigan’s first offensive play of the game against OSU, we have a staffer hold up a sign (like a play call sign). It simply says in big bold letters visible to the crowd: “Dear Ryan:”
2.) On Michigan’s second offensive play of the game, we have that same staffer hold up a second play call sign. It simply says in big bold letters visible to the crowd: “We know what you did.”
3.) On Michigan’s third, fourth, fifth, etc. offensive play of the game, we have that same staffer hold up a new play call sign. And each new sign will contain a very concise drip, drip, drip of new information.
Maybe it’s just the PI firm’s name. Maybe it’s followed by the date they were engaged by OSU.
Maybe it’s the name of a recruit who was paid for a visit, which is followed on the next play by the dollar value they were paid.
Maybe it’s the name of their sign stealing staffer(s). Maybe it’s the name of other schools we know they shared with.
It doesn’t really matter what order: whatever information you have, you drip it out.
One. sign. at. a. time. All. game. long.
4.) By deploying it via play call signs for 100k attendees to all see at once, it is an absolute guarantee that it will make waves during the most watched CFB broadcast of the season and throughout social media. And OSU will have to spend the entire game — or at least, until they get their AD and lawyers on the phone screaming to the B1G to try to stop it — in a state of anxiety thinking about what story is going to come out on each successive play, when they should be focusing on the game. Sure, they may pretend they’re not bothered by it and they’re focused on the game, but there’s simply no way not to pay attention.
Is this idea absolutely insane? Yes.
Should I be forcibly committed for even typing this up? Without question.
But would it be one of the most talked about moments in the history of this rivalry and compel widespread discussion about OSU that we’ve all been waiting for? I defy you to tell me it wouldn’t.
November 17th, 2023 at 5:33 PM ^
I admit I'm a bit of a sicko, but I like this idea a lot
November 17th, 2023 at 11:05 PM ^
Thanks. I needed a laugh.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:15 PM ^
UM has been the punching bag of the NCAA since they bent over on the Fab Five scandal. We've seen time after time since then that UM doesn't have a counter for attacks like this. Now we've even got the B1G attacking UM - their own conference & 1st year commish. With 4 new schools coming in to the league, it's obvious that OSU is sending a message that they're the king of the conference & that's all that they care about.
If I was UM & wanting to expose OSU, I'd start with infiltrating the network of unofficial buckeye media sources who have leaked bits of news on signgate. And put together a dossier of just specific OSU-related connections to the PI firm & media attacks. And then find a way to get it out to Wetzel/Cowherd/other friendly UM media (?), like prior to the week of the OSU game. And then start leaking all the rest of the known OSU NCAA violations. Include any dirt you can find on Pettiti connected to OSU/MSU/PSU too.
I'd prefer UM put up a counter-attack - I'm not saying they will.
November 17th, 2023 at 3:26 PM ^
The only counter we have is, we need to find out who this PI firm is, who hired them, and exposed this as a pathetic political hit job from our enemies, who cant beat us on the field and resorted to espionage. This will speak volumes.
November 17th, 2023 at 2:15 PM ^
was the story about Purdue - Rutgers - Ohio state even an attempt to say they all broke rules or just proof that signs are being stolen and the advantage wasn't as big as the media made it out to be ? I think the NCAA backed off from the advantage standpoint..