OT: The Bumbling Rob Manfred
Not quite sure I've seen a pro sports commissioner fumble the sign stealing crisis like Manfred has. Lying about the circumstances surrounding not punishing players. Trying to drag the Players Union into co-responsibility. Giving the Astros owner a pass. Calling the World Series trophy, which players devote careers to achieving, a "piece of metal." Utterly failing to comprehend that players would be deeply upset by this kind of cheating.
Given that Job One for a Commissioner is having a good working relationship with the product - otherwise known as players - I'm not sure Manfred ought to keep his job.
February 18th, 2020 at 8:06 PM ^
It is incredible how poorly he has handled this situation. I’m thinking he’s not going to last very long.
February 18th, 2020 at 8:11 PM ^
He’s got to go. Completely inept at his job.
February 18th, 2020 at 8:26 PM ^
MLB has had terrible, short-sighted management for a while now. They should clean house.
February 18th, 2020 at 8:31 PM ^
Are you guys all still completely dialed in on MLB? I get Reds updates on my Espn app, but I haven’t watched a game on TV in 3 years.
I still know what’s going on because of news outlets, but even with the attention this is getting, it’s not going to Congress like the steroids saga did.
February 19th, 2020 at 12:49 AM ^
Don't think I've watched a full game since the fall of the Tigers and I don't think that's just because my team is bad. Baseball is a dying sport. The median age of viewers was 55 with average age 53 back in 2017 (compared to 47 for the NFL and 37 for the NBA) per Market Watch article: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/5-ways-mlb-is-trying-to-get-younger-fans-interested-in-baseball-2017-02-22
I personally used to love baseball. Hard to watch the games now that I have kids since they're so long.
It's sad but it'll be in big, big trouble in 10-20 years is my guess.
February 19th, 2020 at 1:15 AM ^
been hearing this mantra for 30 years...
February 19th, 2020 at 6:40 AM ^
I rarely miss a Tigers game. True fan here. I love baseball. Best sport ever invented.
February 19th, 2020 at 10:35 AM ^
Logging into a baseball thread to say "I don't care about baseball." A bit counter-intuitive.
February 18th, 2020 at 8:34 PM ^
This won’t go away but some healing will start IF Manfred would take the title away.
February 19th, 2020 at 12:21 AM ^
Would be scared this season to face opposing pitchers if I was a batter wearing an Astros jersey.
February 19th, 2020 at 4:55 AM ^
I think this is the thing people don't realize. Manfred works for the owners, and I haven't heard many outside of Steinbrenner complaining. It's still a tight knit boys club, just like the NBA and NFL. Those guys will never turn on each other.
February 19th, 2020 at 10:28 AM ^
Where does that end... do you also take away the Red Sox 2018 title? The Yankees titles when their rosters were littered with caught steroids users?
February 18th, 2020 at 8:34 PM ^
Yeah, I don't know what the right answer is, but that makes me and Rob Manfred equals.
The Astros and their owner got off easy, and if I'm another team thinking about cheating, this isn't much of a deterrent.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:51 PM ^
They've got a big fat banner in their stadium that says "World Series Champs" and a pretty nice hunk of metal on display in the front office.
Crime pays just fine.
February 18th, 2020 at 8:43 PM ^
He basically says winning the World Series is worthless, but I’m sure he still wants fans to tune in come playoff time.
I want a job where it really doesn’t matter how I respond when complications arise. If I say something that’s irresponsible, well no big deal I’ll just say “sorry didn’t mean it” the next day.
February 18th, 2020 at 8:44 PM ^
It appears as if Manfred has been blinded by the light...
February 18th, 2020 at 10:10 PM ^
Underrated comment.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:31 PM ^
Wrapped up like a douche
February 18th, 2020 at 10:56 PM ^
Oh Mozart go-kart, checking all the weather charts. Manfred Mann did a good job with that old Dylan song.
February 19th, 2020 at 1:16 AM ^
dylan? bahaha!!! how about bruce?
February 18th, 2020 at 10:56 PM ^
Oh Mozart go-kart, checking all the weather charts. Manfred Mann did a good job with that old Dylan song ( some of their songs) but Blinded by the light was actually a Springfield song.
February 19th, 2020 at 3:11 AM ^
Steen..... Springsteen.
Neither Dusty nor Rick would write that song
February 19th, 2020 at 8:24 AM ^
HAHAHAHA!!!! So many mistakes about this!!!
February 19th, 2020 at 12:05 AM ^
wrapped up like a douche
edit: B-Nut-Go-Blue beat me to it
February 18th, 2020 at 8:50 PM ^
Not to mention the juiced ball. How can you let seem heights change?
February 18th, 2020 at 9:06 PM ^
Gimmicks. Just like expanding the playoffs, you know, that thing that ends with awarding a piece of metal. Or the three batter minimum for relief pitchers which will shave a good two minutes off of game times.
February 18th, 2020 at 9:48 PM ^
I thought that for awhile. Now I don't think he's capable of coming up with that plan on purpose and executing it.
February 18th, 2020 at 8:57 PM ^
He makes Bud Sieleg look like a competent commissioner, which is saying a lot.
February 18th, 2020 at 9:03 PM ^
Job one of the commissioner is making the owners money. His disdain for the sport makes more sense once you look at it with this prism.
I wish it wasn’t the case and that the commissioner was a sort of caretaker of the sport
February 18th, 2020 at 9:06 PM ^
The piece of metal comment will follow him for life. Agree the whole thing is a mess.
February 18th, 2020 at 9:13 PM ^
And yet Pete Rose is still banned from Baseball....What a joke!
February 18th, 2020 at 10:56 PM ^
This exactly. Pete Rose bet on his team to win and he lied about it. He definitely deserved to be punished but nothing he did changed the outcome of a game. The Astros cheated their way to World Series and get their hands slapped in comparison. And the players have no repercussions.
February 19th, 2020 at 1:19 AM ^
you are so wrong here. you really think he didn't manage differently if he bet on the game? that's ridiculous.
February 19th, 2020 at 6:03 AM ^
Let's assume you're right. He only bet for his team to win. At worst, he's shaving points. The outcome of the game is unchanged. If you're a gambler then you're pissed, but that's the risk in gambling.
Pete Rose has been out of baseball for thirty years. The Astros potentially changed the outcome of at least one World Series and essentially only have a one year penalty. And the players got off completely without any penalty. How does that help the integrity of the game?
February 19th, 2020 at 7:47 AM ^
Have to confess, I do not understand the swell of Bring Pete Rose back comments since the Astros scandal. How does more cheating of a totally different nature excuse Pete Rose? What the Astros did was very wrong and bad for the game. What Pete Rose did was very wrong and bad for the game (only bet on his team to win according to.... him). If you want to say the Astros should be punished more, I can certainly see that, but why does this situation for so many people seem to imply that Pete Rose should somehow be punished less? I don't mean to single you out here as there are A LOT of people saying this, but I don't really get the logic. Many are screaming that the Astros punishment isn't harsh enough but then are turning around and advocating for a less harsh punishment for Rose. I am clearly missing something. Is it that betting on your sport while you are involved in the outcome of games something we want less punishment for? If the issue is that the Astros or Roiders etc. haven't been punished enough then fine but I don't see how that makes Pete Rose's actions less wrong or less worthy of punishment. I would also say, since Pete Rose how many betting on baseball scandals have their been (to my knowledge 0). Isn't that the result you want a punishment to create?
February 19th, 2020 at 9:09 AM ^
I think it's because most people believe that the Pete Rose ban set a precedence. It's not to say that what Pete did has been made any less wrong, it's that if you think letting the Astros off easy is fair punishment, the punishment for Pete needs to be consistent.
February 19th, 2020 at 3:19 PM ^
This is a fair assessment of my point, written more succinctly.
February 19th, 2020 at 9:42 AM ^
Sorry, this is wrong as wrong can be. He bet on some games and not on others, which means he was incentivized to make decisions in the games he didn't bet on that hurt his team's chances in those games in order to improve them later. Like, maybe not using his closer in a close game, because he needs him for tomorrow.
It also opens the door, if the bookies are losing too much money or you're not paying them (and don't act like that's not likely), for them to apply certain kinds of pressure.
Nothing could be worse for a sport than for people to think the participants are compromised or that the outcome is predetermined. When you bet, regardless of whether it's on your team or against it, you are compromised.
The Astros cheated and should be punished accordingly, but they were still trying to win games. Pete Rose was not trying to win games, he was trying to win money.
February 19th, 2020 at 10:01 AM ^
I was logging in to say the exact same thing. If he didn't bet on the game, it was a signal to the wise guys that he wasn't going to do whatever he could to help his team win the game that day.
February 19th, 2020 at 3:28 PM ^
You certainly make fair points and a good argument. However, I do not see why the Astros (and players involved) should not receive the same penalty of Pete Rose. I do not really see a moral distinction between either wrongs.
Moreover, and I will admit the bias of a young kid who admired Pete Rose as a player, I do make a distinction between his work in baseball as a player and as a manager. There has never been an allegation that he bet on baseball or cheated as a player. He should be in the Hall of Fame as a player. Punish Pete Rose the manager separately.
February 18th, 2020 at 9:22 PM ^
I'm not a baseball fan anymore but I've been following this as closely as anything baseball related over the last decade, this won't go away and it's only going to get worse until real action is taken against the Astros players of those teams and their franchise as a whole.
February 18th, 2020 at 9:23 PM ^
I said it last night and I will say it again - Rob Manfred is a commissioner in the same way that some are bathroom attendants or in the way that some merely like to piss in the street.
February 18th, 2020 at 9:24 PM ^
What I don’t get is the punishment. If you told any owner a World Series is worth 4 (or 5) first round pics, 5 million dollars, and fire two execs.... why wouldn’t they do it? And players can be suspended for drugs they put in their body but can’t for using technology to get a bigger advantage? And their has been no contrition whatsoever. I don’t know if you could take the title but you could ban them from post season play for as long as they cheated. And who cares if the players association fights any player suspension... u can say you tried. He is simply inept
February 18th, 2020 at 9:24 PM ^
Until the 2017 Series is vacated this thing will go on and on and on...
There is precedent for it in other sports (Juventus 2005, for example with their ref fixing).
February 18th, 2020 at 10:01 PM ^
My solution. I would get all the other baseball teams together. Since the Astros are willing to cheat to win, every team would agree to forfeit every game to the Astros. The Astros would go 162-0. Their home game revenue- tickets, parking, concession - would plummet so they would most likely lose a ton of money. They would "officially" win the "piece of metal". All the other teams would play as normal and we would truly recognize the champion that year. Nobody gets hurt by getting plunked every game. Everybody is happy. This would go on until the Astros voluntarily give up the World Series title
February 19th, 2020 at 2:13 AM ^
Crazy idea.
But I like it!
February 18th, 2020 at 10:07 PM ^
Punish the Astros players? How about all of the other players that have cheated on other teams as well? Did you know the "ring leader" Carlos Beltran, who was with the Yankees 2 years before and 2 years after the time with the Astros in 2017. Do you think the Yankees are clean? Alex Cora and Beltran have played or coached with almost half of the MLB teams combined. Have there not been schemes in place in any other place besides Houston?
Just a few thoughts. I'm not an Astros fan, but it's amazing all of these people think they are the only ones who have cheated. Let's vacate the titles of the Red Sox in 2018 and in the steroid era for all of the teams who had juiced up players make a series altering play that won them a World Series.
This while ploy is trying to make the Astros a scapegoat for a baseball culture who has always stretched the limits to give their team an upper hand.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:17 PM ^
Great points! I could not have said it better myself. The other people on the board do not understand what has been going on in baseball for years.
February 18th, 2020 at 10:32 PM ^
stupid comment... 3 teams may have done it, 2 definitely did it .... you therefore conclude everyone does it.... and if I agree on your dumb premise that everyone did it, the Astros did it so obviously to get caught, they definitely deserve to be punished for stupidity and arrogance alone
February 18th, 2020 at 10:38 PM ^
Well let's do a thorough investigation on every single franchise and every recent World Series winner and see who is really clean and isn't clean. The Astros were guilty, yes, but the amount of hate and vitriol towards them, like they have ruined baseball for every other team, is a little too much to take.