Community Sentiments on UM Football Culture Change
I see a lot of Harbaugh bashing here and in the media, but also a realistic defense of his coaching that says "who could do better given the academic and recruiting constraints" UM places upon itself.
That said, curious to see how the community feels about changing the "culture" away from the student-athlete model to more of a football factory.
December 7th, 2019 at 4:31 PM ^
Release the Kraken!
If Michigan wants to play the virtue signaling game, they should just offer intramural football.
You don't build a 110,000 seat stadium (much less, fill it) so people can see Academic All-Americans matriculate down the field.
December 7th, 2019 at 4:34 PM ^
Still early in the polling, but results look pretty split. I'm curious if the 50% that don't think we should "cheat" to compete with the elite teams believe there is a better option than Harbaugh under our current student-athlete model.
December 7th, 2019 at 4:51 PM ^
I'm in the 50% voting against. I don't think there is anyone better, or equal to Harbaugh out there. I also don't think this is his peak. Every year, he identifies weaknesses and looks for how to improve. If we can keep Brown and Gattis for a few years for offensive and defensive consistency, the results will come.
When will we beat OSU? Don't know. If they're the best team in the nation every year, it will obviously be a challenge. At least Fields and Young will be gone when we play them next year.
Would everyone take one loss to OSU next year and a slot in the playoffs? Could happen.
My priorities in a coach:
1. Don't cheat (how soon we forget Martin and M basketball)
2. Be a leader/role model for the players to produce players that we can cheer for and be proud of.
3. Win.
I'm not so "get off my lawn" that I don't need a coach that does all 3 of the above. Harbaugh is doing the first two and working his way to #3. He's put together what should be a top 10 program hopefully trending toward top 5 from definitively not that.
It sucks, but we need to be patient and be grateful every day that he stays as our head coach. If he leaves, it will almost certainly get worse, not better.
December 7th, 2019 at 5:35 PM ^
Just a heads up. Young is gone next year, but Fields is back. Which absolutely blows, because I don't want to see any more of that kid.
That said, the rest is a good solid post, and I agree with it all...if JH leaves, it would be a disaster. Back to the drawing board. No thanks.
December 7th, 2019 at 10:54 PM ^
No. Fields is History.
December 7th, 2019 at 11:30 PM ^
Heard he was going to petition nfl for early entry based on the fact that everyone in college is a racist.
December 7th, 2019 at 7:07 PM ^
I am going to say this as a discussion point: yeah following the rules is great and all, but the Fab Five was a really fun wild ride.
December 7th, 2019 at 4:53 PM ^
The better option is coaching better. That video of Meyer pointing out our defensive flaws in the OSU game really put a hole in the whole talent gap thing. Seems more like a coaching issue to me. Teams get to the playoffs with our level of talent
December 7th, 2019 at 5:49 PM ^
Michigan would have made the playoffs under Harbaugh already if we played in any other division besides the Big Ten East or the SEC West
December 7th, 2019 at 7:37 PM ^
False. We would have reached a conference championship game, but there’s no indication we would have won those games
December 8th, 2019 at 10:26 AM ^
The ole "if" arguement. Never gets old.
December 7th, 2019 at 5:50 PM ^
Exactly what "recruiting restraints" do we have? List them for me please.
Every single elite kid that OSU has gotten would have been accepted by Michigan. I would venture the exact same thing for Clemson too. "Recruiting Restraints" at Michigan is a straw man argument. The elite recruits that couldn't / wouldn't get into Michigan are incredibly slim...like maybe 1 or 2.
December 7th, 2019 at 7:39 PM ^
To my mind, it's not just admissions. I agree that the vast majority of kids accepted at the football factory schools would have gotten accepted at Michigan if we had been their selection. But I do wonder how many don't come here (and how many we choose not to pursue) because of the relative rigor and academic expectation of a Michigan program compared to those at the football factory schools.
I'm sure that Michigan athletes can take easier programs than the average Michigan student, but when you can stay eligible by taking only online classes (ahem, Justin Fields and Joe Burrows) or by taking an easier program at a much less demanding university, there is additional selection bias at work.
Call me naive (and I'm sure a lot of you will!) but it's not simply admissions criteria at work here.
December 7th, 2019 at 11:14 PM ^
If Fields would have come to Michigan would he be allowed to take online classes and never have to go to a real classroom? I think not.
December 8th, 2019 at 1:48 AM ^
Did you see Jourdan Lewis’ tweet that said don’t talk to me about a free education because when I arrived at school I was told I could not major in graphic design because it did not fit my “schedule”. - It’s coming directly from a recent former player that UM football players are steered into specific majors that will keep them eligible and fully engaged in football. We just pretend we have a higher standard because it’s a great excuse for when you fail to meet expectations. Same with paying recruits. A financial advisor testified under oath that he paid players at Michigan. Are we supposed to believe he risked federal perjury charges just so he could slander Michigan?
The denial here is off the charts. Our problem is to the extent that we do things. - We may not break the rules on the same level OSU does, but what’s the difference? It’s like we are passing bad checks for a few hundred dollars while OSU is embezzling millions from the stock holders. Both are breaking the rules but the little guy gets everything taken away and has the book thrown at him, while the guy who stole millions gets probation and keeps the money. If you’re going to cheat, then cheat. If not, be 8-4 to 10-2 and don’t complain.
December 7th, 2019 at 9:13 PM ^
Admit into UM = definitely
Stay eligible/not kicked-off the team = no way
I have a hard time believing players like Ezekiel Elliot and Cardale Jones, and the like, would go to class/advisor/tutoring.
Urban Meyer's "inner circle" methods have been well-documented since Florida.
And yes, the players have so much put on their plate, workouts, practice, film-room, socializing, partying, wanting to go to the NFL, and wanting to relax otherwise, the choice to forego having to actually go to class and "get an education", given what their 16-18 year-old minds "know", it is not only not-stupid, it's more rational to go to the program that gives more leeway and give you passing grades regardless.
And when it comes the the south/southwest, wooo boy, we're not even talking illiterate, some of those SEC platers are borderline non-verbal.
December 7th, 2019 at 4:40 PM ^
Very well said! Oh, and drop the “Michigan Man” bullshit too and just win.
December 7th, 2019 at 4:49 PM ^
You're an "insider" and would advocate openly cheating? Hopefully you're not far enough inside to make that a reality at my alma mater.
December 7th, 2019 at 4:52 PM ^
Is it really cheating though if everyone else is doing it?
December 7th, 2019 at 4:54 PM ^
1) Yes.
2) Not "everyone" is doing it.
December 7th, 2019 at 7:26 PM ^
2) Not "everyone" is doing it.
True, but how many top tier programs do you think aren't cheating?
December 7th, 2019 at 7:38 PM ^
Probably all of them (or close enough to not make any difference). That doesn't mean we should do the same.
I would rather see our AD lead the charge against this bs and finally bring it into the light. It might be a losing battle, but it's the right one - maybe make enough noise to force the NCAA to split the organization into "does school" and "does not do school" leagues.
December 7th, 2019 at 7:40 PM ^
How do you feel about student athlete's getting legally paid by the school?
December 7th, 2019 at 4:59 PM ^
If you do not think Michigan is bending the rules already, you have your head in the sand.
It's big time college athletics. It's dirty. Michigan ain't Princeton when it comes to football purity.
December 7th, 2019 at 6:18 PM ^
Indeed! It would be interesting to see the average SAT/ACT scores of the football team compared to the rest of the student body. A study was done about a decade ago and Michigan had some of the higher scores in the study but they weren't close to the University average.
I would guess that things have changed for the better under Harbaugh but I'd venture a guess there is still a big distinction in admission criteria.
December 7th, 2019 at 7:44 PM ^
Straw man argument. Why must the student-athletes test scores be equal/better than the university-wide average? The average is exactly that - a mean value. There will always be many students in the university with scores lower than that and scores higher. The important point is that the scores were high enough to be admitted to UM - that is where the academic standards matter.
December 7th, 2019 at 11:09 PM ^
Even Ivy Leagues bend academic rules for athletes. They’re allowed to offer a certain number of kids each year who are below the standard university requirements and there’s tiers for various academic levels affecting how many players can be admitted on each level.
December 7th, 2019 at 5:06 PM ^
Yep, dirty hand shakes every weekend for your alma mater.
December 7th, 2019 at 5:28 PM ^
$50-100/handshake is not the same at 300k
December 7th, 2019 at 5:32 PM ^
Or a $0 car lease or a nice paying no show job.
December 7th, 2019 at 5:18 PM ^
Isn’t virtue signaling one of the core ideals of UM, and Ann Arbor for that matter?
December 7th, 2019 at 7:44 PM ^
I agree it's dumb to complain about academics. I'm sure UM cares a tad more about their athletes in school than OSU types but I doubt demonstrably so.
What I am interested in seeing is what happens when everyone can start putting money out there above-board. Because while I'm sure UM has some level of bagmen, it's well established that some schools just DGAF about the NCAA's enforcement of that and with NIL rights I think that frees up a bit more money at places like UM. Not that I suddenly think Alabama or LSU will stop getting elite talent, but Michigan's brand is so ubiquitous nationally that you can get a lot of opportunities to get some value from your likeness.
December 8th, 2019 at 12:12 AM ^
A-Fucking-Men
December 7th, 2019 at 4:39 PM ^
You seriously don't think we pay players too?
December 7th, 2019 at 5:53 PM ^
There's a huge difference between kids getting a free meal at the Brown Jug and kids getting six figure payments and houses bought for their parents.
December 7th, 2019 at 6:18 PM ^
I think that's a bad argument. That's like saying you are less of an adulterer than your neighbor because he has 10 girls on the side and you only have 1.
If you want to have integrity...then be 100% pure as white clean. If not, then stop pretending and do what these other schools are doing and win. If Alabama really is buying houses for kids and $300,000 payments then it is amazing how efficient they are at cheating. They've never been caught in over 10 years.
December 7th, 2019 at 6:40 PM ^
One involves the IRS/FBI and the other doesn't so while they may both technically be cheating, one is certainly worse than the other.
December 7th, 2019 at 10:34 PM ^
If you believe that the only illegal benefit Michigan players get is a free dinner at the Brown Jug you are incredibly naive.
December 7th, 2019 at 6:59 PM ^
Actually they have been caught numerous times, usually by someone other than the NCAA.
December 7th, 2019 at 8:45 PM ^
I hope you are a high school kid.
December 7th, 2019 at 4:41 PM ^
And the non-alums make their presence known.
December 7th, 2019 at 4:48 PM ^
Does the school's reputation change depending on how the football program operates?
December 7th, 2019 at 4:49 PM ^
The non-alums donate more than the cheap ass grads. So fuck off.
December 7th, 2019 at 4:52 PM ^
I'll show you the charitable contributions part of my past tax returns, if you show me yours.
December 7th, 2019 at 4:57 PM ^
I highly doubt that - the most prolific donors (athletics and otherwise) are alums (case study #1: Stephen Ross).
December 7th, 2019 at 5:10 PM ^
Wrong!
December 7th, 2019 at 5:21 PM ^
Ok - care to provide facts to support that?
December 8th, 2019 at 12:21 AM ^
Really, so you donated a building or endowed a chair for a university you have no connections to?
December 7th, 2019 at 7:25 PM ^
The notion that those who didn’t attend U-M donate more to the institution than alumni do is one of the most stupidly asinine things I’ve ever read on MGoBlog, and that goes back well over ten years. Seriously, you’re a delusional dumbass if you really believe that.
December 7th, 2019 at 4:52 PM ^
Last time I checked, this isn’t a secret squirrel alumni only blog or message board.
I didn’t goto college. I joined the service for 12 years and then learned a skilled trade after I ETS’d.
Does this make my opinion on the football team any less important than yours?
Didn’t think so.