OT - RIP, Ginger Baker
I know this is far afield, but I’m an old guy and I cannot let the passage of the GOAT of Rock Drummers, and one of the greatest in all genres of music. Ginger was first and foremost a jazz drummer who brought musical rhythms into the world of rock. Listen to the live part of Wheels of Fire and you’ll see what I mean. With apologies to Keith Moon, John Bonham, Neil Pearl, and Mike Portnoy, Ginger was the best.
Also, consider streaming a most excellent video biography entitled “Beware Mr. Baker”
October 6th, 2019 at 7:54 PM ^
The fact that Ginger stayed alive for 50 years following the Cream days speaks to the resiliency of the human body and the importance of good genes.
Crazy as a shithole rat, but he was a terrific drummer.
RIP, Ginger Baker.
October 6th, 2019 at 9:06 PM ^
I mean, I hear he did have a lot of children...so those genes are out there.
Otoh, in Beware of Mr. Baker, didn't he basically admit to neglecting all of them??
October 6th, 2019 at 7:58 PM ^
Loved his music with Blind Faith and Cream.
RIP Mr. Baker.
October 6th, 2019 at 8:14 PM ^
There's an interesting documentary on Ginger Baker here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7h8CqYXEx0
His personality was ... um ... abrasive? You can watch the video (1hr30 in length) and draw your own conclusions.
All the great drummers of that era -- Baker, Moon, Bonham, etc. -- paid homage to earlier jazz greats such as Buddy Rich, Gene Krupa, and others. In turn, slightly later drummers such as Neil Peart paid homage to Baker, Moon, and Bonham.
I'm a big fan of The Who, so I hold Moon in pretty high esteem ... but his drumming was of a different sort than Baker's or Bonham's. John Entwistle (bassist for The Who) said Moon's sense of time was not always steady; and Pete Townshend said Moon's drum fills served more like the role of a keyboard when Pete was himself bashing out chords. Ginger Baker and John Bonham had impeccable timing and tremendous power. Moon was a bit more chaotic, which was part of The Who's sound.
October 6th, 2019 at 8:33 PM ^
The unique sound of The Who comes from their inversion of the traditional roles of rock bands.
Traditional: drum keeps time, guitar supports (vocal) or leads melody, bass uses harmony to glue the drums and guitar together
The Who: rhythm guitarist keeps time, bass supports (vocal) or leads melody, drums use rhythms to glue guitar to bass
Personally, I always found Moon's explosive drumming made The Who far more exciting than most other bands. Pete said he was astounded over's Moon's improvisations over the opening of Baba O'Riley when he first heard it- he was a lead drummer.
Ginger Baker came from a much stronger R&B tradition and worked to energize within the timing of the drums- he was a master of the snare and could make it sound like 3 different drums.
Story: Baker hated Jack Bruce and it took Clapton everything he had to convince Baker to form Cream with Bruce.
Get used to these type of stories- in the next 10-15 years most of the Rock and Roll legends will be dying.
October 6th, 2019 at 8:42 PM ^
While we're talking legendary drummers... I mean... just in case there are humans who haven't seen this yet. If you want a hi-quality version The Kids Are Alright is on Netflix... and this is also on The Rolling Stones Rock & Roll Circus...
October 6th, 2019 at 9:26 PM ^
Since we have a mini-Who thread going here ... for anyone not familiar with what John Entwistle provided on bass, put on "Live at Leeds" and listen to the song "Substitute." Pay attention to the opening guitar riff played by Townshend, then notice all the other sound that suddenly comes rumbling in around that riff. That's all Entwistle on bass -- full treble, full volume, playing lead 'guitar' on bass.
October 7th, 2019 at 10:30 AM ^
Have a listen to Entwistle's Lead Bass on "The Real Me", as well as a classic Keith Moon performance:
October 7th, 2019 at 8:35 AM ^
Yes, Mr. Baker had impeccable timing. But, he also had amazing creativity and a skill level unmatched by any "rock" drummer. He was truly polyrhythmic. Just listen to Toad on Wheels of Fire. The equal of most of the great jazz drummers. RIP, Mr. Baker.
October 6th, 2019 at 8:17 PM ^
He was uh, very complimentary of Bonham and Moon in 'Beware of Mr. Baker'.
October 6th, 2019 at 8:24 PM ^
The achingly beautiful guitar riff after the 2nd verse is an all-timer, but I've always loved the drums on this gem too. Hard to watch 'em go (Robert Hunter of the Dead last week as well), but their tunes will live on.
October 6th, 2019 at 9:08 PM ^
Pretty sure that George Harrison wrote that arpeggio guitar part. That makes it even better, IMO
October 6th, 2019 at 8:40 PM ^
RIP, Ginger Baker.
October 6th, 2019 at 8:49 PM ^
Ok. I’ll play. It’s hard to determine the ‘best’ musician because there are so many metrics involved. Do you go by longevity? Album sales? Concerts? That said, as a drummer, I’ll say Bonham is the best. Moon’s behavior and death boosted his legend, and if it weren’t for that and Won’t Get Fooled Again, he’d be just another guy. Portnoy—the average person can’t name any of his stuff. Peart is very creative and is kind of in his own category. Baker was very influential early, but Bonham gets the crown. YMMV.
October 6th, 2019 at 9:15 PM ^
You’re right, Bulbie. There is no ‘best’ in music (with the possible exception of Louis Armstrong), but it’s polite to be dramatic in memory of the recently deceased. Had I thought a little more, I would have added Buddy Rich, Zutty Singleton, Chick Webb, Gene Krupa, Gavin Harrison, Bill Bruford, Max Roach, Philly Jo Jones, and Al Jackson, Jr. among others. I mean no disrespect to any of them. Ginger (and Cream in general) were in the right place and time for my tender young mind.
October 6th, 2019 at 9:32 PM ^
All great choices. Rich and Krupa were certainly very influential. Neil Peart’s Buddy Rich tribute was cool.
October 7th, 2019 at 12:15 AM ^
Well gramps...Cream was hugely influential on my 15 year old mind. But looking back they set me up to fall in love with the Allman Brothers. I loved Clapton but adored Duane (best guitarist of his era). Butch Trucks and Jai Johnny Johnson's improvs on Mountain Jam and In Memory of Elizabeth Reed from the Fillmore East concert were spectacular.
Aside. Recently attended a concert featuring Butch Trucks nephew Derek Trucks and his wife Susan Tedeschi. Derek can play an excellent lead guitar and Susan is a fine guitarist who can sing her ass off. Great two hours+
October 6th, 2019 at 9:29 PM ^
Moon "just another guy"?
Have you ever listened to Live at Leeds? How about the entire Quadrophenia album? Or the singles Happy Jack or I Can See For Miles, or the live version of A Quick One (While She's Away) ?
There are so many more examples of Moon playing the drums as the lead instrument that I've only listed a few that quickly come to mind. You really need to get educated, my good man.
Though Moon is my personal favorite drummer of all time, I can understand the praises of Ginger Baker, Peart, Bonham, etc. But any list without Moon in the top 10 is simply WRONG.
October 6th, 2019 at 8:59 PM ^
Seeing his wild performance at Boston’s Psychedelic Supermarket in September 1967, I never expected that either Ginger Baker or I would last this long. He ranks among the greatest drummers I’ve ever seen perform live.
Although I didn’t know his name until fairly late in my life (and I was born during the Truman administration), Hal Blaine, the legendary drummer of the studio musicians known as The Wrecking Crew, played drums on the soundtrack of my youth, but I never saw him perform live.
Gene Krupa lit up my black-and-white TV screens when he performed on The Tonight Show in the early 1960s, and Buddy Rich made drum solos come alive when I finally could see The Tonight Show broadcast in color, but I never saw either of them perform live.
Led Zeppelin’s John Bonham made the walls of my college and law school dorm rooms and apartments reverberate with thunderous drumming, but I never saw him perform live. Miles Teller’s performance in the film Whiplash was impressive, but I’ve never seen him perform live.
Of those drummers whom I’ve seen perform live, the best have been Keith Moon (The Who at Commonwealth Armory in Boston in October 1969), Ginger Baker (Cream at The Psychedelic Supermarket in Boston in September 1967; Blind Faith at Madison Square Garden in July 1969), Stewart Copeland (The Police at Madison Square Garden in August 2007) and Max Weinberg (Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band in many places at many times).
October 6th, 2019 at 9:04 PM ^
When you’re the drummer in a trio, you MUST have uber-chops. It’s no coincidence that many of the most celebrated rock drummers (Baker, Mitchell, Stewart Copeland, Neil Peart, Dave Grohl) all played in power-trios.
October 6th, 2019 at 9:33 PM ^
Lot of space to fill. Have to get creative.
October 6th, 2019 at 9:34 PM ^
Stewart Copeland is a great call.
October 6th, 2019 at 9:10 PM ^
I am not particularly knowledgeable about Baker’s work, but I do really like “Can’t Find My Way Home.” I think I’ll probably give it a listen tonight.
October 7th, 2019 at 12:19 AM ^
GREAT song.
October 6th, 2019 at 9:29 PM ^
One less piece of shit father left in the world.
October 7th, 2019 at 8:41 AM ^
Fuck you. Are you without flaws? Have you ever given the world 1% of what Ginger gave the world in terms of his musical brilliance? He was a tortured soul, as are many creative geniuses. You, on the other hand, are simply an ass.
October 7th, 2019 at 11:44 AM ^
You must have a soft spot for guys who leave their children to fend for themselves. The kids were probably better off when he was gone as opposed to when he was there. How do you know that I'm not a "creative genius", which apparently gives me the freedom to be an asshole? But I mean, he could play the drums ...
October 6th, 2019 at 9:33 PM ^
MANTHA WITH #4!!!!
October 6th, 2019 at 10:19 PM ^
Good riddance. Ginger was an asshole. I've been drumming for over 35 years. He was a very good drummer, but Mitch Mitchell made more of a contribution to the instrument. I reject the premise of measuring a man's life by his contribution to a field of endeavor. We're here for more than that.
October 6th, 2019 at 11:24 PM ^
Cream would have be a huge band if they stayed together dare I say bigger then the Stones.
Ginger was a one of a kind.
October 7th, 2019 at 10:55 AM ^
Dunno what you old farts are on about, but AC Slater sure could bang on some pots and pans.