Green Bay going to use Rashan Gary as a Linebacker
It appears, based on this FREEP article that, at least at first, Gary will be a linebacker. Not sure I ever even considered that, but based on his measurables, I guess that could actually be really effective if he can cover at all.
“He’ll start in the outside linebacker room. He’s a guy because of his size and speed and versatility, you’d hope you can move him around the front,” Packers scout Joe Hueber told reporters Thursday night. “He’s done some standup stuff already. He’s had to play multiple positions and move around. Probably needs to learn some of the (coverage) drop stuff.
"But as far as rushing the passer goes, he’ll be ready.”
Say whaaaaaaaaat?!?
Well that’s... interesting
He's done some standup stuff already? I may be blanking on it, but I really can't remember him doing that.
He was at the Ann Arbor Comedy Club on weekends, tore the place up!
His Queen Latifah spoof was particularly spot on!
April 26th, 2019 at 10:11 AM ^
Figured something like that was coming.
April 26th, 2019 at 10:30 AM ^
I saw him, too! In person he looks an awful like Geechy Guy.
April 26th, 2019 at 10:33 AM ^
Yeah, I was there. Thought I was going to see Kevin Hart. Gary's performance left me wanting more.
April 26th, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
If you ever see Rashan standing next to Kevin Hart please, please, please do the world a favor and capture a picture. Hard to top the Tacko Fall/Tracy Wolfson contrast, but that would be in the neighborhood.
April 26th, 2019 at 11:47 AM ^
Does this look like CGI to anyone else? I know it's real but this isn't computing with my brain somehow.
Aliens, bro.
April 26th, 2019 at 12:56 PM ^
Is anyone else wondering why Tracy doesn't have shoes on?
I assume to make the height difference more dramatic. Add an extra 3 inches or so of heels and it's less so. Still a lot, but if you're doing the gimmick photo, might as well do it all the way.
Would you look at that? Toes to toes her nose is in it, nose to nose her toes is in it...
First pair of adults I've ever seen that that limerick actually works out literally.
April 26th, 2019 at 10:58 AM ^
I thought he was more of an improv guy?
I'm sure there were a few plays where the defense got tempo'd and never got into a stance.
Filing this under so smart and out of the box that they're dumb. Just too many if's involved. He'll be back at DE or DT by the first week of camp.
Gary really only has two moves as a pass rusher: bending the corner with speed, and speed-to-power bull rushing. Considering he can drop his weight down to 260 and be even faster than he is now (lolz jfc), this isn't that crazy of a move.
it's that crazy of a move. even at 260 he's not going to be fast enough to be a real OLB. this is crazy overthinking. gary's a 3-4 DE, who has the ability to play the 3 and 5 tech in a 4-3.
April 26th, 2019 at 10:23 AM ^
He has better speed than LaMarr Woodley and is 15 pounds bigger. Not crazy to think he could drop some weight and be a pass rush specialist OLB.
Gary runs a 4.58 at 280 pounds so he might be able to get down around 4.50 at 260. That's crazy fast for an OLB.
April 26th, 2019 at 10:47 AM ^
Measurables are one thing, of course he has those all day long. If you want to just talk about his speed and size, you can convince yourself he could be a tight end as well. Would you do that?
OLB includes coverage and that opens up a ton of responsibility. Even run plays are going to require a lot more reading of the play, and that's a very specific skill. Lots of would-be great LB's failed because they couldn't diagnose plays quickly enough.
This seems like a massive stretch. But I hope it works out and he's awesome.
"pass rush specialist OLB"
April 26th, 2019 at 10:57 AM ^
I'm pretty sure your idea of an OLB is that of Hudson. He's not going to be a linebacker in the truest sense of the word - he will be a DE who happens to be standing up at the snap.
April 26th, 2019 at 11:51 AM ^
and sometimes has to drop into zones, and read run plays to the edge differently than he would if he had his hand in the dirt. it's just a different skill set, and unclear why one would want your first round pick to learn a different position in the NFL when he's already awesome at the position he plays and has played for years.
April 26th, 2019 at 11:58 AM ^
Clowney plays OLB, my dude. If Gary drops 20 pounds, he's Clowney. How is this any different?
Also, saying you don't want someone playing rush OLB because they're not an elite zone defender is like saying you don't want to draft a corner because they can't lay the wood in run support. Nobody's really emphasizing it. At the end of the day he's 90% WDE, 10% zoning linebacker.
Agree - I thought going into the draft he'd be a perfect 3-4 end.
whut?! For the last year people on the board have been saying he'd be better as a 3-tech in the NFL. No one knows anything. 100-1 he never plays as a LB unless it is a glorified DE position.
It obviously depends on the specific 3-4 scheme, but OLB in a 3-4 is basically WDE in a 4-3.
So, can Gary play WDE? Absolutely.
April 26th, 2019 at 10:13 AM ^
They are going to use him in the Clay Matthews role, which is a pass rusher most of the time.
April 26th, 2019 at 10:16 AM ^
Exactly this. He would have been a strong fit in Pittsburgh for that same reason.
Not a surprise when you consider guys like Terrell Suggs thrive at that size in 3-4 outside rush position.
Green Bay seems to always draft well. Aligns with success..e.g. Lions
maybe as the mike linebacker if he doesn't have to move too much?
i mean, dude is a freak, but that's different than chasing slot ninjas.
sounds like a fun experiment. But no.
ESPN reported GB sees him as a guy they can move around depending on scheme.
The Packers likely view Gary as an elephant position, their catch-all term for a defensive lineman/outside linebacker who can play multiple spots. He can move, running a 4.58 40-yard dash at the combine. "He's got rare gifts, a guy that size who runs that speed," said Packers college scout Joe Hueber, who added that Gary will start out as an outside linebacker.
They used Julius Peppers in a similar role who played at 295 lbs. So, dunno maybe? Rashan has said in interviews he models his game after Peppers, amongst others.
April 26th, 2019 at 11:07 AM ^
This. It's 2019 in the NFL, no one is complete 3-4 of 4-3 these days. They are all multiple front, multiple packages. Gary will effectively be playing the OLB/DE hybrid role that will have primary responsibilities in holding the edge vs the run and rushing the passer in pass situations. Sometimes he will be in a 2-point stance, sometimes in a 3-point stance, and much like how Seattle used Frank Clark and Bennett and multiple people, he could even end up in a 5-technique or 3-technique in certain packages. It's about using his combination of size and athleticism. He's "starting in the OLB room" primarily because he needs to actually learn a position before doing everything, but that's the end game.
The Packers are going to regret taking him that high. They made the common draft mistake of overvaluing great workout numbers. What Gary did on the field in college never matched expectations and that’s not going to change in the NFL.
Go back and look at the UFRs or how PFF scored him.
April 26th, 2019 at 10:30 AM ^
Here are the thoughts on Gary from Pro Football Focus:
I don't think they're as positive as you're implying. They said he's not a 1st rounder. Green Bay took him at #12. Those two things don't match up.
April 26th, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
One thing to note though is that the almost exclusively focused on pass rush. Now, in the modern NFL that's the most important thing, that's why almost all teams are drafting DEs that high, and if you watch the film most likely you'll agree with their pass rush assessment of Gary. He is overly reliant on trying to use a speed rush/dip move, which he just isn't that good at. He's shown effectiveness using speed-to-power, but for whatever reason rarely used it. And he never really developed other counters.
All this tends to fit the mold with Mattison coached DL (one or two pass rush moves, a lot of focus on run defense, stacking blockers, shedding blockers, taking on pullers, etc.). But what it means for Green Bay is they got a strong edge defender against the run with potential to develop into a well rounded and capable pass rusher. Green Bay has lots of holes to fill, but with Gary's upside, they have the ability to address both the run and pass defense weakness they have currently. Far from a slam dunk pick, but I also don't think it's a drastic reach people are making it out to be. Worst case they move him eventually to DL and he fits as a good run defender.
I just didn't see quickness to adjust from him, or desire. Maybe he will develop pass rush moves. Maybe the coaches there will find the switch in him that turns on his desire to grow as a player.
I think he will end up on the DL as a run stopper. He does get push.
April 26th, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
Most teams expect a star out of the first round (especially the top half) and draft guys with that potential. They are just as often as not disappointed. By that metric, I think Gary will disappoint. Despite his sky high measurables, I think his superstar potential is lower than many others think.
Setting health aside, I think Gary is an instant starter and has a long career as a plus defender. He may not make pro bowls, but he'll hold his position better than most and allow the stars of his defense to do their thing. I think he'll be short on superstar accolades but long on appreciation and respect from his teammates and coaches. Basically, his pro career will look a lot like his college career. While those who wanted a year-in, year-out pro bowler will be disappointed, I think if you told most GMs that they could get a plug-and-play 7-10 year, plus guy at #12, I think they're OK with that. I think Gary's chances of not being able to be a starter at the NFL level are low. From an ability to contribute standpoint, he's a low risk guy. Using grades, his downside is B and his upside is A- and he's likely a B+.
Of course we can't set health aside. That's why I think he was picked too high. Based upon admittedly very little info or expertise (when does that ever stop anyone on the internet), I think he has a somewhat high injury risk.
April 26th, 2019 at 10:00 AM ^
Players in college and NFL make an impact even when their stats don't match. One of the major upsides of having Gary in the game at Michigan was his ability to garner double (and sometimes triple) teams from the opposition. It freed up other players like Chase, Uche, and Bush to do work. There is no official stat of "double/triple teams drawn". Gary can, and I believe will, do just fine in the NFL.
April 26th, 2019 at 10:12 AM ^
With a pick that high, a team is looking for a player who can do a lot more than simply “make an impact.” Truly great D linemen also draw double teams, but they still make far more plays than Gary ever did.
April 26th, 2019 at 10:14 AM ^
PFF graded Gary's pass rushing when he was not double teamed and it was not good. Not at all. Far below every other 1st round prospect in the draft.
"While he has been used on stunts and as more of a “decoy” on blitzes, Gary has had plenty of one-on-one opportunities to rush the passer in his three years at Ann Arbor. When we filter out plays with no blitzes and no stunts, Gary ranks just 64th among edge defenders in the draft class with at least 100 opportunities and only 30th among those with at least 250 rushes.
His 68.8 pass-rush grade in such situations is just as concerning as his overall grading suggests, especially when his peers who are receiving similar first-round hype are all ranked among the top 15 in this situation. His own teammate, Chase Winovich, ranks 10th with a pass-rush grade of 84.5 in these instances, and Winovich outperforming Gary, both against the run and as a pass-rusher, has been a consistent theme during their time together at Michigan."
https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/draft-why-rashan-gary-is-not-a-first-round-talent
April 26th, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^
"When we filter out plays with no blitzes and no stunts, Gary ranks just 64th among edge defenders in the draft class"
April 26th, 2019 at 10:31 AM ^
Yeah, Mattison will not be missed by me. He can pound sand.
April 26th, 2019 at 11:25 AM ^
I think he now calls himself Attison.
April 26th, 2019 at 11:22 AM ^
don,
that picture is scarier than your avatar. yech.
April 26th, 2019 at 11:56 AM ^
That's disgusting.