Not sure what your point is. We only share TV revenue with the likes of Northwestern and Rutgers. Much like the other professional leagues with similar structures or sharing a percentage of the gate. Michigan and OSU will not have the same total revenue as Northwestern and Rutgers. Never have, never will.
Equal shares in TV money is pretty common in pro sports. As is having the same spending cap.
“why should schools like Michigan or OSU get the same spending cap AND RECEIVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF REVENUE as Northwestern or Rutgers or any of the other bottom feeders in the B1G with poor viewership and lousy attendance?”
Probably for the same reason it happens in every professional sports league
Giving up your free education (that you haven’t even received yet) isn’t a penalty when you’re being compensated… a free education. The student-athlete isn’t being penalized at all. He has given up nothing, he simply chose a different source for his compensation.
It’s absolutely wild for you to sit there with a straight face and say Michigan giving him a free education instead of St. Mary’s is a penalty… by that logic, DeBoer’s “penalty” for leaving Washington for Bama would be giving up a job at Washington and not, ya know, the $10 million buyout Washington received.
I don’t think who pays the buyout is really relevant. The point is there’s no penalty-free movement for the coaches. There is compensation to the previous school, whether that comes from the coach or the new school doesn’t matter. It’s simply not a good comparison to a player being released from his NLI, where there is zero penalty.
Coaches aren’t allowed to leave for better opportunities with zero penalty. They have to pay a buyout to be released from their contract. A recruit being released from their NLI is a penalty-free release.
Not saying schools should block a release request, but it’s really not comparable to coaches leaving.
Recruiting rankings tend to favor the large athletic freaks that project as pure tackles. Michigan has excelled at getting guys on the interior and developing them into absolute maulers.
That’s kinda my point though. We had an efficient passer while those teams did not or had guys with skillsets more suited to other areas like Milroe on the ground. We still ranked 117th in % of pass plays, which is obviously one of the lowest in the country.
Anyone who followed college football closely enough would have seen that Auburn and Bama were very run-centric teams with mobile QBs. Auburn’s QBs ran for over 700 yards and Bama’s ran for over 600, and neither team had what you would consider an efficient passer. Auburn was borderline anemic through the air and Milroe was good enough that his legs made him a legitimate QB.
So it’s not surprising we threw more than them, it’s surprising it was so close to begin with
Because there are far more proven commodities out there that have actually done something to earn that money. Several sites saying they have the best QB room doesn’t make it true, nor does it make their backup QB worth a huge payday at a school like Michigan. If we’re not paying high schoolers, we’re gonna pay a guy with 5 passes to his name? Makes zero sense.
If we’re pitching the idea to gather up funds to poach a QB that isn’t even in the portal, why in gods green earth would you go for someone’s backup QB with 5 career pass attempts?
Not every portal addition is about addressing immediate needs. We’re losing Paige, Moore and Johnson after this season, which leaves Oden, Berry and Hillman going into next season plus any recruits, not to mention the possibility of a transfer exit and Berry winning the nickel job.
If you can bring in an experienced guy to rotate with a few years eligibility left and then step into a major role next year, that’s ideal. Similar to pulling in Hausmann last year even though we returned Barrett and Colson at linebacker
Kentucky isn’t a mid-major. Kentucky is in the SEC… you DO know the term “mid-major” refers to what conference a team is in and not how good that specific program is, right?
The “basis” being that everyone had him going to Michigan, his own comments had him going to Michigan, and in the 11th hour he decided to commit to Kentucky. Just like Miami flipping those guys from OSU last year, it’s pretty clear when a lesser program swoops in with a big money offer.
“how will they compete with the elite teams?” I can’t hear you over the national championship rings
I don’t know how you can look at recruiting the past few years and NOT see that NIL is a major factor in recruiting losses. Not just for Michigan, but many schools. If you’re calling it a tired excuse, you’re just flat out not paying attention.
Texas A&M recently bought one of the highest rated classes ever on the back of NIL. Miami flips a few guys every year because they’re throwing big $ deals around.
Davis stated he was close to committing to Michigan on a visit, visited two more times in the following three weeks, referenced an extremely close relationship with Alford, was getting crystal balls from national experts and commits to Kentucky out of nowhere… and we’re just supposed to pretend NIL isn’t a major reason for recruiting losses?
Just to clarify… you’re using the Tennessee violations as the guideline? They were slapped with over 200 violations with 18 of them being Level I violations… violations included:
Paid unofficial visits
At least impermissible hotel room nights, 180 impermissible meals, 72 instances of providing impermissible entertainment or other benefits, 41 impermissible recruiting contacts, 37 instances of providing impermissible game day parking, and 14 times in which gear was impermissibly provided to prospects.
Direct payments to recruits and their families
Direct knowledge of the scheme from the head coach
Provided misleading information and directed recruits parents to provide misleading information to investigators
I’m really failing to see how that is supposed to be used as a guideline for our penalties and how you have arrived at your proposed penalties in comparison to what Tennessee received for FAR more violations and more severe violations.
Not being able to and deciding not to are two very different things. The current practice of throwing money at high schoolers, many of whom enter the portal or never pan out, isn’t a sustainable practice. Michigan deciding not to play in the mud while the system regulates itself doesn’t represent an inability to financially compete.
But again, that’s just an extremely lazy take from you.
Lazy take. The first few years he inherited running backs who went to the NFL, Elliott and Sermon. You don’t want to give him credit because he didn’t recruit them, that’s fine. But you can’t count those years against him either in that case. So you’re down to 7 years. He then had JK Dobbins start for 3 years and sent him to the league. Weber started for a year and then backed up Dobbins, and was drafted. You then followed that up with Henderson for 3 years, and would have been drafted if he entered this year. But because Henderson is returning, it conveniently doesn’t go on Alford’s record.
SO. During Alford’s tenure, every starting running back at OSU has either been drafted, or WILL BE drafted. It’s a gross manipulation of technicalities to denigrate Alford’s accomplishments.
With limited roster space, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for teams to have a fullback on the roster. Stick an extra OL or a bigger TE back there on short yardage situations if you’re so inclined, but having a player whose only role is to block in short yardage situations or the rare FB dive is a waste of a spot on a 53 man roster. Especially as injuries start to mount in a 17 game season (plus playoffs if you make it). Ben Mason isn’t much of a receiving threat so it’s somewhat surprising he’s lasted so long even on the periphery of rosters.
It’s pretty clear he was favoring Michigan. The national recruiting experts were putting crystal ball projections in and On3 had the odds at over 89%. Visited 3 times in the last month. Then he committed to Kentucky out of nowhere.
Seems pretty obvious that this was NIL related and has very little to do with Alford and his recruiting ability.
You keep making comments like this. How much do you want Michigan to pay for someone like Waller? Honestly.
Is there a limit in your eyes? What’s the price? What if someone pays more than what Michigan feels that player is worth, we’re still going to sit here and trash Michigan’s NIL because we’re not overpaying players?
Just because we aren’t throwing obscene amounts of money at high schoolers and backups doesn’t mean our NIL program isn’t very good. There’s likely a price they have that they’re willing to pay and if they’re offered more than that elsewhere, they’re okay seeing them leave.
“should have known once Sam and crew started full hype train for him”
He had two crystal ball projections, both to Michigan and both from NATIONAL guys. On3 gave Michigan an 89.5% chance at landing this commit, OSU was next highest at 3.1% with UK at 2.7%.
Weird to attribute this to Sam and other insiders starting a hype train when the kid made a (likely NIL induced) decision out of left field.
If your odds aren’t increased by going to Michigan, you’re still doing nothing to argue why Michigan should be a destination for guys.
You also have to factor in the fact that guys in the portal are guys who NEED to make a name for themselves and get ON draft radars, and you’re more likely to do that at a school that gets the ball to their receivers. Coming to Michigan, even as our top
Comparing that demographic of player to multi-year starters at Michigan is irrelevant. But Cornelius Johnson was the #177 recruit, is 6’3”, ran a 4.44, and was a 3 year starter for Michigan. He parlayed that into a late 7th round draft selection. I don’t know why we’re talking about that as though Michigan is getting guys drafted in a way that should attract transfers or high ranked recruits. Sure, it’s not impossible to get drafted playing WR at Michigan. But let’s not sit here and pretend like we’re doing these guys any favors.
In short, if you’re a receiver who is either a fringe draft pick or not even on radars, are you bettering your odds of getting picked by going to Michigan and getting 300-500 yards, or going to another P4 school and getting 750+?
Portal and position switches, coupled with our offensive scheme not being overly attractive to bringing in proven commodities or high ranked recruits.
We don’t throw it very much to begin with and a not-insignificant amount of those targets going to TEs. Hard to attract impact receivers and/or get guys to wait their turn.
Yeah my understanding was that it was Waller and Hill neck and neck for CB2, and McBurrows was competing at nickel with Berry and Hill also getting recognition there.
Not to mention a salary cap does absolutely nothing to limit NIL. You can’t limit or restrict the ability of the players to make money for the use of their name, image and likeness. That’s the whole premise of the court rulings.
The issue is, you’re trying to hold student-athletes to a different standard than regular students but without giving them the guarantees/compensation to actually separate them from regular students.
If you’re going to hold them to a separate standard of commitment, they have to be treated as contractual employees. Until that happens, the NCAA/Universities have zero grounds to restrict their ability to transfer.
A 24 year old corner implies that he’s at or near the end of his development. Matching up well with a couple college receivers isn’t the same as matching up well with NFL guys, especially considering Will Johnson took the #1 receiver every game.
Matching up well with #2 receivers a couple times a year isn’t remotely the same as defending NFL receivers every week. We’re REALLY overvaluing how college play translates to the NFL. There’s a reason the NFL doesn’t draft based on production.
Counterpoint: Michigan has the NIL system corrected already and the current pay for play structure used by many schools is not sustainable. Donors are going to get sick of paying big $ to backups, guys who don’t amount to anything, and recruits who transfer the next year. It’s the Wild West because it’s new and the NCAA is powerless to incorporate a structure, but it will regulate itself.
He’s projected to go undrafted. PFF scores are cool and all but the NFL really doesn’t care about any of that. They want measurables, they want elite traits, they want high ceilings.
Wallace was a solid corner for us this season, but he turns 24 in July and he really doesn’t have any of those elite traits or measurables that NFL teams desire. Doesn’t mean he won’t get drafted but I see more pointing to him not getting drafted than getting drafted.
The trick would be getting players to agree to such a thing when up-front payments are being offered elsewhere. People aren’t actually asking these players to do a whole lot to earn their big money. It is 100% about paying players to be at a certain school. If you’re making players routinely make appearances, they’ll still just pick the school where they’re getting money up front just to be there and we’re in the exact same position.
That’s not NIL. That would be an employment contract between the player and the school. NIL, by definition, comes from third party sources and can’t be contingent upon playing at a certain school.
I think it just comes down to how much you want to spend on backups, third stringers and freshmen. Once you’re paying guys that far down the roster significant money, all the players at their level or above are going to want the same or more. It’s easy for us to sit here and figuratively spend other people’s money but that’s not the way the real world works.
Eventually this is all going to balance out and backup corners aren’t going to get 6 figure offers to begin with. This isn’t a sustainable system
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Not sure what your point is. We only share TV revenue with the likes of Northwestern and Rutgers. Much like the other professional leagues with similar structures or sharing a percentage of the gate. Michigan and OSU will not have the same total revenue as Northwestern and Rutgers. Never have, never will.
Equal shares in TV money is pretty common in pro sports. As is having the same spending cap.
“why should schools like Michigan or OSU get the same spending cap AND RECEIVE THE SAME AMOUNT OF REVENUE as Northwestern or Rutgers or any of the other bottom feeders in the B1G with poor viewership and lousy attendance?”
Probably for the same reason it happens in every professional sports league
Terrifying when you consider how fickle refs can be with calling majors
That makes zero sense.
Giving up your free education (that you haven’t even received yet) isn’t a penalty when you’re being compensated… a free education. The student-athlete isn’t being penalized at all. He has given up nothing, he simply chose a different source for his compensation.
It’s absolutely wild for you to sit there with a straight face and say Michigan giving him a free education instead of St. Mary’s is a penalty… by that logic, DeBoer’s “penalty” for leaving Washington for Bama would be giving up a job at Washington and not, ya know, the $10 million buyout Washington received.
I don’t think it has anything to do with Suggs. Starting at Indiana was probably preferable to being a depth DT at Michigan
I don’t think who pays the buyout is really relevant. The point is there’s no penalty-free movement for the coaches. There is compensation to the previous school, whether that comes from the coach or the new school doesn’t matter. It’s simply not a good comparison to a player being released from his NLI, where there is zero penalty.
Okay but that’s not a good comparison.
Coaches aren’t allowed to leave for better opportunities with zero penalty. They have to pay a buyout to be released from their contract. A recruit being released from their NLI is a penalty-free release.
Not saying schools should block a release request, but it’s really not comparable to coaches leaving.
Just no cheeseburgers
Recruiting rankings tend to favor the large athletic freaks that project as pure tackles. Michigan has excelled at getting guys on the interior and developing them into absolute maulers.
That’s kinda my point though. We had an efficient passer while those teams did not or had guys with skillsets more suited to other areas like Milroe on the ground. We still ranked 117th in % of pass plays, which is obviously one of the lowest in the country.
Anyone who followed college football closely enough would have seen that Auburn and Bama were very run-centric teams with mobile QBs. Auburn’s QBs ran for over 700 yards and Bama’s ran for over 600, and neither team had what you would consider an efficient passer. Auburn was borderline anemic through the air and Milroe was good enough that his legs made him a legitimate QB.
So it’s not surprising we threw more than them, it’s surprising it was so close to begin with
Anyone who watched college football would not be surprised by that.
Auburn had Payton Thorne and might as well have run the veer. Alabama had Milroe, who was much better on the ground than through the air.
No, Thorne played a pretty poor game. Kenneth Walker beat us.
Because there are far more proven commodities out there that have actually done something to earn that money. Several sites saying they have the best QB room doesn’t make it true, nor does it make their backup QB worth a huge payday at a school like Michigan. If we’re not paying high schoolers, we’re gonna pay a guy with 5 passes to his name? Makes zero sense.
I’ll humor you for a second…
If we’re pitching the idea to gather up funds to poach a QB that isn’t even in the portal, why in gods green earth would you go for someone’s backup QB with 5 career pass attempts?
https://247sports.com/player/deone-walker-46102934/high-school-253566/
Yeah, that’ll never happen
We’ve recruited them fine, it’s been getting them to stay that’s been an issue
Not every portal addition is about addressing immediate needs. We’re losing Paige, Moore and Johnson after this season, which leaves Oden, Berry and Hillman going into next season plus any recruits, not to mention the possibility of a transfer exit and Berry winning the nickel job.
If you can bring in an experienced guy to rotate with a few years eligibility left and then step into a major role next year, that’s ideal. Similar to pulling in Hausmann last year even though we returned Barrett and Colson at linebacker
Kentucky isn’t a mid-major. Kentucky is in the SEC… you DO know the term “mid-major” refers to what conference a team is in and not how good that specific program is, right?
The “basis” being that everyone had him going to Michigan, his own comments had him going to Michigan, and in the 11th hour he decided to commit to Kentucky. Just like Miami flipping those guys from OSU last year, it’s pretty clear when a lesser program swoops in with a big money offer.
“how will they compete with the elite teams?” I can’t hear you over the national championship rings
UMass is probably FCS quality, but they are an FBS school
He just finished his redshirt junior year actually, which means he’s 4 years through college and most likely a grad transfer.
I don’t know how you can look at recruiting the past few years and NOT see that NIL is a major factor in recruiting losses. Not just for Michigan, but many schools. If you’re calling it a tired excuse, you’re just flat out not paying attention.
Texas A&M recently bought one of the highest rated classes ever on the back of NIL. Miami flips a few guys every year because they’re throwing big $ deals around.
Davis stated he was close to committing to Michigan on a visit, visited two more times in the following three weeks, referenced an extremely close relationship with Alford, was getting crystal balls from national experts and commits to Kentucky out of nowhere… and we’re just supposed to pretend NIL isn’t a major reason for recruiting losses?
Just to clarify… you’re using the Tennessee violations as the guideline? They were slapped with over 200 violations with 18 of them being Level I violations… violations included:
I’m really failing to see how that is supposed to be used as a guideline for our penalties and how you have arrived at your proposed penalties in comparison to what Tennessee received for FAR more violations and more severe violations.
They’ve had the same number of running backs drafted during the Harbaugh era as Michigan has…
Not being able to and deciding not to are two very different things. The current practice of throwing money at high schoolers, many of whom enter the portal or never pan out, isn’t a sustainable practice. Michigan deciding not to play in the mud while the system regulates itself doesn’t represent an inability to financially compete.
But again, that’s just an extremely lazy take from you.
“He put 1 RB in the league in 9 years.”
Lazy take. The first few years he inherited running backs who went to the NFL, Elliott and Sermon. You don’t want to give him credit because he didn’t recruit them, that’s fine. But you can’t count those years against him either in that case. So you’re down to 7 years. He then had JK Dobbins start for 3 years and sent him to the league. Weber started for a year and then backed up Dobbins, and was drafted. You then followed that up with Henderson for 3 years, and would have been drafted if he entered this year. But because Henderson is returning, it conveniently doesn’t go on Alford’s record.
SO. During Alford’s tenure, every starting running back at OSU has either been drafted, or WILL BE drafted. It’s a gross manipulation of technicalities to denigrate Alford’s accomplishments.
Criticizing his recruiting when guys transferred because they were stuck behind Dobbins and Henderson for years is certainly a take…
With limited roster space, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense for teams to have a fullback on the roster. Stick an extra OL or a bigger TE back there on short yardage situations if you’re so inclined, but having a player whose only role is to block in short yardage situations or the rare FB dive is a waste of a spot on a 53 man roster. Especially as injuries start to mount in a 17 game season (plus playoffs if you make it). Ben Mason isn’t much of a receiving threat so it’s somewhat surprising he’s lasted so long even on the periphery of rosters.
It’s pretty clear he was favoring Michigan. The national recruiting experts were putting crystal ball projections in and On3 had the odds at over 89%. Visited 3 times in the last month. Then he committed to Kentucky out of nowhere.
Seems pretty obvious that this was NIL related and has very little to do with Alford and his recruiting ability.
You keep making comments like this. How much do you want Michigan to pay for someone like Waller? Honestly.
Is there a limit in your eyes? What’s the price? What if someone pays more than what Michigan feels that player is worth, we’re still going to sit here and trash Michigan’s NIL because we’re not overpaying players?
Just because we aren’t throwing obscene amounts of money at high schoolers and backups doesn’t mean our NIL program isn’t very good. There’s likely a price they have that they’re willing to pay and if they’re offered more than that elsewhere, they’re okay seeing them leave.
“should have known once Sam and crew started full hype train for him”
He had two crystal ball projections, both to Michigan and both from NATIONAL guys. On3 gave Michigan an 89.5% chance at landing this commit, OSU was next highest at 3.1% with UK at 2.7%.
Weird to attribute this to Sam and other insiders starting a hype train when the kid made a (likely NIL induced) decision out of left field.
This was an NIL loss, not a recruiting loss. But go off.
If your odds aren’t increased by going to Michigan, you’re still doing nothing to argue why Michigan should be a destination for guys.
You also have to factor in the fact that guys in the portal are guys who NEED to make a name for themselves and get ON draft radars, and you’re more likely to do that at a school that gets the ball to their receivers. Coming to Michigan, even as our top
Comparing that demographic of player to multi-year starters at Michigan is irrelevant. But Cornelius Johnson was the #177 recruit, is 6’3”, ran a 4.44, and was a 3 year starter for Michigan. He parlayed that into a late 7th round draft selection. I don’t know why we’re talking about that as though Michigan is getting guys drafted in a way that should attract transfers or high ranked recruits. Sure, it’s not impossible to get drafted playing WR at Michigan. But let’s not sit here and pretend like we’re doing these guys any favors.
In short, if you’re a receiver who is either a fringe draft pick or not even on radars, are you bettering your odds of getting picked by going to Michigan and getting 300-500 yards, or going to another P4 school and getting 750+?
Portal and position switches, coupled with our offensive scheme not being overly attractive to bringing in proven commodities or high ranked recruits.
We don’t throw it very much to begin with and a not-insignificant amount of those targets going to TEs. Hard to attract impact receivers and/or get guys to wait their turn.
Yeah my understanding was that it was Waller and Hill neck and neck for CB2, and McBurrows was competing at nickel with Berry and Hill also getting recognition there.
Having an elite DL the past few years will do that
Not to mention a salary cap does absolutely nothing to limit NIL. You can’t limit or restrict the ability of the players to make money for the use of their name, image and likeness. That’s the whole premise of the court rulings.
Why in the literal fuck would you move your RB2 to LB5 for his Senior year?
The issue is, you’re trying to hold student-athletes to a different standard than regular students but without giving them the guarantees/compensation to actually separate them from regular students.
If you’re going to hold them to a separate standard of commitment, they have to be treated as contractual employees. Until that happens, the NCAA/Universities have zero grounds to restrict their ability to transfer.
The players are informed they’re getting drafted before their name is actually called
A 24 year old corner implies that he’s at or near the end of his development. Matching up well with a couple college receivers isn’t the same as matching up well with NFL guys, especially considering Will Johnson took the #1 receiver every game.
Matching up well with #2 receivers a couple times a year isn’t remotely the same as defending NFL receivers every week. We’re REALLY overvaluing how college play translates to the NFL. There’s a reason the NFL doesn’t draft based on production.
Michigan is a very good place to get paid… if you deserve it.
Counterpoint: Michigan has the NIL system corrected already and the current pay for play structure used by many schools is not sustainable. Donors are going to get sick of paying big $ to backups, guys who don’t amount to anything, and recruits who transfer the next year. It’s the Wild West because it’s new and the NCAA is powerless to incorporate a structure, but it will regulate itself.
He’s projected to go undrafted. PFF scores are cool and all but the NFL really doesn’t care about any of that. They want measurables, they want elite traits, they want high ceilings.
Wallace was a solid corner for us this season, but he turns 24 in July and he really doesn’t have any of those elite traits or measurables that NFL teams desire. Doesn’t mean he won’t get drafted but I see more pointing to him not getting drafted than getting drafted.
Huh? Doman is a really solid punter. Averaged 44.3 last year and dropped 18 of his 53 punts inside the 20.
Third team all-conference for a team that rarely punted is pretty impressive.
I mean sure, 5 CBs is rather shallow… but you neglected to list the rest of the corners, so there’s that.
The trick would be getting players to agree to such a thing when up-front payments are being offered elsewhere. People aren’t actually asking these players to do a whole lot to earn their big money. It is 100% about paying players to be at a certain school. If you’re making players routinely make appearances, they’ll still just pick the school where they’re getting money up front just to be there and we’re in the exact same position.
That’s not NIL. That would be an employment contract between the player and the school. NIL, by definition, comes from third party sources and can’t be contingent upon playing at a certain school.
The money isn’t coming from the programs so their bottom line is largely unaffected by this.
I think it just comes down to how much you want to spend on backups, third stringers and freshmen. Once you’re paying guys that far down the roster significant money, all the players at their level or above are going to want the same or more. It’s easy for us to sit here and figuratively spend other people’s money but that’s not the way the real world works.
Eventually this is all going to balance out and backup corners aren’t going to get 6 figure offers to begin with. This isn’t a sustainable system