WTKA Roundtable 4/20/2023: I Have No Use for the Written Word Comment Count

Seth April 20th, 2023 at 10:49 AM

Things discussed:

  • Ohio State vs Michigan recruiting: Maybe you guys don't want to be bragging that your scouting at OL and DB sucks. Like, it's not a flex that you didn't recruit Rod Moore, bro.
  • Roebuck vs the the Andersons—you can say the twins are good fits for OSU if they develop into pass protectors, but if you ask St. Eds people, Roebuck's been their monster and Michigan's been on him for years…it's not like 3-stars vs two 4-stars is a fair representation.
  • Is Ryan Day in trouble if he loses in Ann Arbor? The manner matters.
  • Rod Moore says Ja'den McBurrows is one of the best man coverage guys on the team. He can hit. Don't pencil Amorion ahead of Ja'den. He's got to develop as a film junkie but everything else is falling into place.
  • "Jyaire Hill is gonna play." I preview the recruiting  profile, because I *love* this pickup. Think that Minter is looking at playing simpler coverages because it accesses all of these young players' abilities. We saw two busts in the spring game (Sabb and Hill) when their switching broke down. "Denard on defense."
  • Linebacker is night and day: they have a full two-deep plus Partridge.
  • Up front: seems like edge is a 4-3/3-4 platoon with McGregor/Stewart in the 40 sets and D.Moore/Harrell for 3-4.
  • Portal shopping: Kicker, maybe a corner. Sam says receiver but we like what they have there. Tight end maybe? How about a fullback. Find a guy named Mack Stockbaker to be a pure fullback.
  • Recruiting: Last guy in the picture: Prieskorn is M-OSU-PSU, with PSU the biggest fear, but none of the guys who developed those TEs are still there. Going for six guys on the OL: figure Guarnera is the center and then a 6th guy is a battle of 4 or 5 guys, like Max Anderson, Brandon Baker coming to visit, Bennett Warren might have M in the lead, Michael Uini almost put out a commitment graphic.
  • Getting Sherrone done with OL recruiting by the end of June is great because he can help in other recruitments.
  • Cole Cabana as a returner? Sure, but this year it's AJ Henning.
  • Basketball: Hunter looks like he's going to sign with Kansas, which is where you sign if it's about the money because Kansas does not get outbid. Why are fans sour on Hunter?
  • Ewing Theory potential: Michigan needs to find another guy who can play center but Tarris Reed and their portal pickups are all defensive guys.
  • Olivier Nkamhoua? Sentiment from Tennessee is he'd rather be a pro, and college is a fallback option. Primarily a four but could slide to the five better than Tray Jackson.
  • Hockey developments: Like the Warren pickup, ideal guy to pair with Edwards on the 2nd pairing so Truscott and Casey can be your top pair. If they get the Hobey Baker winner back they're going to have two of the best lines in hockey.
  • Baseball: Tracy Smith has done a good job so far—seems more like Indiana Smith than ASU Smith.

[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]

You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.

Segment two is here. You can watch the video here:

The Usual Links:

People break up with girls all the time, and that's what they say.

Comments

Blue Highlander

April 20th, 2023 at 2:45 PM ^

Definitely got Bill Laimbeer vibes with with Hunter - could see why other teams hated him, loved him as OUR a-hole.  It did wear thin as the losses piled up though, and he seemed to double down on the villain role when the team was down.  Maybe it was supposed to rile the team or deflect, but ended up leaving a sour taste.

I hope he makes a million bucks - no hard feelings.

smitty1233

April 20th, 2023 at 11:19 AM ^

Keep sending us your unwanted OH kids like Rod Moore.... These are the types that play with a chip on their shoulder for the game and are really really good players. Stupid philosophy if you ask me but I hope they keep on keeping on.... 

Dickinson has to cash in now probably anyone blaming him for doing so doesn't understand the change in collegiate athletics with NIL and the portal. When it was allowed to become a business then business moves started to matter. 

Please let us have a solid kicking game this year. Freshmen kickers give me hives. 

 

 

1989 UM GRAD

April 20th, 2023 at 1:54 PM ^

Just took a glance at the 22-23 stats for Kansa.  

Top two scorers are leaving.

#3 scorer would be a 5th year senior and is apparently likely to leave.  

That leaves the #4 scorer...who scored 10 pts per game....and shot 0% from 3.  

5th leading scorer will be senior who hasn't shown much improvement in his first three years.  

Bringing in one transfer and a highly-ranked freshman class...but we've seen how a freshman-laden team tends to perform.  

If Hunter comes back to Michigan, he'll be surrounded by a bunch of 4th and 5th year players...including a dynamic scorer who can take a lot of the pressure off of Hunter. Not to mention a 2nd year point guard who showed significant improvement as the year went along.

That being said, while I've always been a Hunter supporter, I do think he dictates a certain style of play...and won't be tremendously disappointed if he decides to continue his career elsewhere.

Is it possible that no Michigan boosters are stepping up because Juwan is ready to move on from the Hunter era?  Maybe...

DaftPunk

April 20th, 2023 at 11:26 AM ^

I was a legacy before I was alumni. If you're not old enough to remember the 1973 Rose Bowl tiebreaker, or the 1979 Charles White Rose Bowl fumble, don't try to talk me down from my generational BPONE.

Still, I'm having a really hard time not getting very excited about the coming football season.

mgoja

April 20th, 2023 at 1:37 PM ^

I don't remember the details of the '79 Rose Bowl, but I do remember watching the game and coming away with the feeling that 1) they were robbed, and 2) they probably would have lost anyway.  They were fairly evenly matched with USC in that game, but they simply didn't have enough offense.  Like the two 14-6 bowl late 70s losses to Oklahoma and USC and the 10-9 loss to Auburn in the early 80s, the defense was great and they didn't have enough offense to win.

AC1997

April 20th, 2023 at 11:42 AM ^

Glad we're still getting the roundtable in the offseason so far!!  Will try to get through it later on the treadmill.  

Initial thoughts based on the write-up:

  • Fans with Hunter - I think it is fatigue. With Hunter on the team everything is about Hunter.  Our offense is based entirely on him and our defense is built around his limitations.  He gets all the attention - both because he should and because he craves it.  He's a great player - but he's also hard to love sometimes with his on and off-court antics.  It is fun having a "heel" on your team when you're winning, but we haven't done a lot of winning the last two years.  A facelift even with less talent is just maybe what people are craving.  
  • Football Portal - I'm all in on a true fullback.  I think they need one and I think going away from it was a mistake.  I'm not sold on Mullings as a power back and I think the short yardage would be awesome with a Hill/Mason type.  No need for a TE - we're stacked there.  I don't THINK we need a WR because we don't throw much and have bodies there.  
  • Football Recruiting - Need some defenders please!  Let's keep this elite DL going!  Let's get some CBs too!  
  • CB2 - I am hoping McBurrows has it.  I think having him as your CB2 and then letting Walker be your CB3 that rotates in for snaps is ideal.

energyblue1

April 20th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^

I laugh at any fan that equates stars to better players, past players they say he is just like or going to be better than.  And then says this about that when it comes to recruiting.  Talk is cheap, work in the weight room, film room and going way over what is required in all areas is where I see success coming from.  While we had big time players wins didn't add up like they should have.  2021 comes along and our coaches and players flipped the script.  

Guys that should have had wins over osu had embarrassing losses.  Rashan Gary, DPJ, Patterson.. there is a list of big time athletes, stars and names that never got a win and flat out got embarrassed in this series.  They also had other losses adding up.  

Now flip the script, Hutch, Corum, Ojabo, Haskins, Hayes, McNamara, Moore, CJohnson, Bell I can list so many but the group listed were called leaders, said they had to be kicked out of Schembechler Hall, they had to tell Corum to quite and get some rest.  Guys that want it so bad they put all the work in.  They changed the culture, they flipped the script.  And while we will always get guys that will leave early for the draft, we won't always get guys that work so hard for the team to lead others and leave a team legacy that changes programs.  The group listed imo have done that and will instill that mentality along with our staff into new recruits!  Guys that are high level, high ceiling and want it more.  

MH20

April 21st, 2023 at 10:52 AM ^

There's no need to disparage Patterson, DPJ, or Gary to make your point. Rashan Gary played through a lot of injuries during his time at Michigan and should have had a victory over OSU (hell, maybe even two).

Also, this thought that the culture from 2016-2018 was bad is not a thing. You could maybe say it started to wane in 2019 and certainly 2020, but that's very revisionist to stand here in 2023 and say the culture of the teams those guys played on was bad because they were 5 stars.

maizenblue92

April 20th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^

Why would you say you only sign with Kansas if it's about money? They win the Big 12 every year! They are a 1 seed 80% of the time it feels like! They're one of the 4-5 true blue bloods of the sport! You go there because it is one of the best programs and basketball environments in the sport.

EDIT: I share this account with a family member and see they posted first lol

1997 National …

April 20th, 2023 at 12:52 PM ^

Seth: Hunter looks like he's going to sign with Kansas, which is where you sign if it's about the money because Kansas does not get outbid.

Also Seth: Why are fans sour on Hunter?

 

*edit Roundtable, not Seth. My apologies, Seth.

jdraman

April 20th, 2023 at 1:08 PM ^

Sam is absolutely right about grabbing an experienced WR from the portal. Lots of inexperienced bodies with no track record as of yet. And lots of hype with no production is not something that helps make a truly great offense. Brian is right though, if O'leary is a real finished article and can be counted on for some decent production, then it will be unnecessary. But do you take that chance?

JBLPSYCHED

April 20th, 2023 at 1:39 PM ^

IMHO Hunter fatigue is about the team getting much worse over the course of his 3 years as well as his stagnation/regression. The worse the team plays, the more he becomes the focus, which in turn makes his very real limitations more obvious. Add to that his willingness to play the 'bad guy' on social media and it makes for an unappealing result.

Would the team be better next year with him on it vs. not on it? Of course. But are some (many?) Michigan basketball fans ready to move on and see what's next instead (even if it's worse)? I think so.

rc90

April 20th, 2023 at 2:36 PM ^

If the HD complaints are going overboard, then I could complain about rebounds on missed FTs or last second airballs or the coach wacking an opposing coach to balance the HD complaints out. I don't want to do that, and I may well be Juwan Howard's biggest fan here, but, well, the past two years have been surprisingly disappointing, so complaints are kinda appropriate.

maddog5

April 20th, 2023 at 2:38 PM ^

Hunter fatigue is a thing, and the way he uses up all the oxygen--on and off-court--has helped create it. We'd'a been a better team with him back, but like others I'm excited to see where we go without him. And hey, respect to him, because he could have just come back without enormous demands on him and cruised. If he goes to Kansas/elsewhere, there will be a fair amount of performance pressure. 

ak47

April 20th, 2023 at 2:54 PM ^

Craigs takes on baseball are a perfect example of why you shouldn’t feel the need to have an opinion on everything. The cape cod league already exists in the summer and big ten baseball isn’t just supplanting it. You would kill you’re already bad recruiting if guys playing at Michigan couldn’t play in summer wood bat leagues with the best talent and raise their draft stock and the southern teams have no need to try to compete with the cape cod league. 
 

The big ten just joining northeast mid major conferences to try to start a summer league would take it from the equivalent of a mid major the equivalent of a club sport.

Also hunter acts like an asshole. He’s one of the most hated guys in the sport. If he was at duke the hate would be the most since Grayson Allen. Of course people are going to admit they don’t like him when he’s no longer on the team 

Denarded

April 20th, 2023 at 11:27 PM ^

And the Northwoods League (the #2 summer college baseball league located throughout the Midwest) has a TV deal with ESPN+ and Draftkings. They only seem to be growing more interest as people love the ‘college AAU’ aspect that the Cape and NWL provide. Madison Mallards in the NWL average 5,500 fans per night in the summer. No Big Ten team can provide that. 

Seth

April 21st, 2023 at 1:06 PM ^

How many Michigan baseball games do you go to? Even with the condensed and stupid schedule that's mostly played before spring actually arrives, they draw here and people are pretty interested. You act like it's impossible for the Big Ten to compete with the summer leagues just because they aren't yet established. The Big 10 knows how to get on TV. They know how to put more than 5000 people in a stadium. The Northwoods League is building in the same market with nothing like the resources, established fanbase, or cachet of the Big Ten. It is vision and commitment to the sport that the Big Ten lacks.

schreibee

April 20th, 2023 at 8:46 PM ^

Our WRs may seem to be less accomplished than the other positions you listed, but I put that squarely on the coaches & QBs. 

Roman Wilson has been capable of doing what he did in the Fiesta for 3 years - they just haven't given him many opportunities. Multiple games last year he had stat lines like 2-3 catches for 100+ yds & a TD on <4 targets! 

Cornelius Johnson frequently drops his 1st target of the game, and in true Michigan fashion barely sees another the rest of the game.

How many targets did Clemons, Morris & Walker get combined last year? Without looking it up I feel safe predicting <20!

So, if they did pursue a more experienced WR in the portal, my 2 questions would be:  would they throw to him, and why would he come here?!

bsand2053

April 20th, 2023 at 11:44 PM ^

I still don't. understand why HC salary should have been an issue for the AD re. Bakich.  This athletic department is absolutely swimming in cash, why would we care about another couple hundred thousand for a great coach who is also a great cultural fit?  I have no idea if Bakich gave Michigan the chance to match, there are obviously other reasons to go to Clemnson.  But if salary was the. main stumbling block then I am very disappointed in Warde.  

Seth

April 21st, 2023 at 1:00 PM ^

I try not to treat millions of dollars like funny money but with Bakich the money question wasn't can we match; it was can we offer so much more to warrant turning down his alma mater in a major conference with top-5 backing. In baseball, the Big Ten is a mid-major. Baseball is the fourth biggest sport at Michigan at best. At Clemson, baseball is bigger than basketball. They compete all year with FSU, UNC, and Wake. Bakich is from there too. If we offered to double his salary offer from Clemson and put as much money into baseball as they do, he still might not have stayed. It really would have taken a conference-wide commitment to reversing the trend of moving baseball to the South and letting the summer leagues have baseball in the summer.

Khaki

April 21st, 2023 at 8:18 AM ^

Hunter bitched about NIL the entire time on campus. Pair that with under achieving team and questionable effort at times he is easy to sour on.

If you want more money go pro. The issue is he is not athletic enough and can get more money in school. He is a guy who complains about NCAA and is now a 4 year player.

Glad he left because his stats were going to put him in category as all time great at University and now he’ll be an after thought. I get do whats best for yourself but complaining doesn’t have to be part of that. Also people tend to not like active players who have a pod cast and have not accomplished anything.