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WTKA Roundtable 1/25/2024: The Age of Culture Dudes Comment Count

Seth January 25th, 2024 at 10:25 AM

Things Discussed:

  • Seth is on early to talk about the Lions, relates it to Harbaugh/Sherrone Moore: Dan Campbell is a culture guy, and that's a hole that the NFL left when it shifted to playcallers as head coaches.
  • Harbaugh to NFL: Seems the program is set through 2024, need to figure out their plan for 2025.
  • Where were you when you heard? I was about to start the final boss fight of a very long D&D campaign.
  • Expected? Yeah, said so in the previews. Michigan tried but Harbaugh was going to take a good NFL deal. When in history has someone gotten a successful NFL coach to come back and coach their college team for 9 years? This was the deal. There is no Super Bowl at Michigan.
  • Sherrone? Yes. When? They have to wait 7 days but will probably apply for a waiver so it could happen in a week or tomorrow.
  • Leaving: Minter, probably Jay Harbaugh. Brian: Spread your wings, Jay. Seth: He's not that kind of guy, but he may be the kind of guy who loves Michigan enough to want to stay. Herbert? There is nothing in the NFL for him like there is at Michigan, but Seth is worried because Bruce Feldman says Harbaugh plans to take him.
  • Staying: Clink (AHC?), Bellamy, Hart, Robinson, Campbell to OC, Newsome to OL coach. Need to find a DC, an LB guy, and new special teams coach. Is there a 3rd Skywalker on the Ravens (Orr?) or another guy that Minter and Macdonald know? Jim Leonard: No. Brian has good dude concerns because he couldn't do better than an analyst for Bert (Note: Leonard has a buyout from Wisconsin that would have been voided if he got a DC job but that shouldn't have mattered; knifing Chryst in the back seems to matter). Need to stay ahead of Ohio State in the metagame.
  • OSU: They could have gotten a guy as good as Caleb Downs if they'd just recruited Rod Moore out of their own backyard. This is what they're up against. Ohio State has always been the program that will do anything in the world to beat Michigan, and they're never going to stop that.
  • Is it bad for CFB that there's no Harbaugh and Saban anymore? Only if you're the person in charge of getting instant clicks by putting someone's name in the headline. What makes college football special isn't the character head coaches; it's the unique connection the fans have to their players.
  • Hockey: Young team that doesn't have the depth to overcome mistakes in a very tough league.

[Hit the JUMP for the player, and video and stuff]

You can catch the entire episode on Michigan Insider's podcast stream.

Seth & Craig were on early here. Segment 2 is here. You can watch the video here:

The Usual Links:

He didn't even get the Nick Saban; he's working for Bert!

Comments

nerv

January 25th, 2024 at 10:42 AM ^

Hi, as a large D&D nerd I would love to hear about your battle vs the bbeg. Now Im pining for a 5 minute 'this month in Seth's campaign' segment.

Joined: 04/14/2009

MGoPoints: 14072

Seth

January 25th, 2024 at 12:57 PM ^

I'm just a noob who got into this after a 2020 Gimmicky Top Five prompt of what are you afraid of getting into with no football during covid. MGoUser dragonchild invited me to his group.

If you must know, we're killing Strahd. I'm a forge cleric whose job is mostly to stand around with an aura.

As to my playing style, I love storytelling as much as I love the mathematics that resolve into the story. But I also love my job which doesn't have an off button. So when I play I've usually got Roll20 in one window, a football game in another, and either my charting or my notes in a third.

Joined: 10/14/2008

MGoPoints: 149219

kehnonymous

January 25th, 2024 at 2:01 PM ^

Harbaugh - definitely a paladin, given his professed spiritualism and rigid moral code.  The inherent Lay on Hands ability was pretty clearly vital to buffing his quarterbacks.

JJ McCarty - A bard.  Charisma to spare, and his bardic inspiration brings out the best in others.  Bards' jack-of-all-trades feature and multiple skills proficiency is reflected in his dual threat ability to threaten with his arm and legs.

Rod Moore - Wood elf ranger.  Wood elves because of the mobility bonus.  Ranger, because they  are equally adept at doing damage in melee and from afar, befitting Moore being great at both run support and pass defense.  Additionally, as a ranger, Moore gains advantage on tracking and Survival checks against his preferred enemy (Ohio St)

Donovan Edwards - sorcerer.  Not quite as much day-to-day utility as a wizard, but an innately talent spellcaster with the ability to inflict huge amounts of damage from far away.

Blake Corum - rogue, mostly because of the evasion abilities, and access to Dash and Disengage as bonus actions each round

Mason Graham - barbarian, juggernaut speciality.  Self-explanatory.  Impossible to knock down and moves enemies backwards on contested Strength checks

Joined: 11/25/2011

MGoPoints: 32994

elm

January 25th, 2024 at 2:31 PM ^

Mike Sainristil: warlock. Made a pact with some powerful creature enabling him to come out of nowhere to play both offense and defense at a high level. Also very charismatic. Also only needs to sleep for an hour before getting all his abilities back. OK, I might be making up that last one.

Joined: 05/11/2011

MGoPoints: 1902

Colt Burgess

January 25th, 2024 at 10:42 AM ^

Harbaugh would be the fourth coach to win at both levels, joining Jimmy Johnson, Barry Switzer, and Pete Carroll. What Jimmy Johnson did was really impressive. Switzer was handed a great team. 

Joined: 02/20/2021

MGoPoints: 12988

bighouseinmate

January 25th, 2024 at 11:05 AM ^

I have previously liked the idea of Leonhard as DC, assuming Minter goes with Harbaugh. But after looking through the raven’s defensive coaching staff, Zachary Orr looks like an intriguing possibility that can come on and continue the defensive philosophy. He also coaches LBs so that could be a bonus hire. Make Elston or Clinkscale the assistant DC to keep them on staff and then go find a young guy for safeties coach. That has the makings for continuity and consistency for the defense.

Joined: 12/19/2008

MGoPoints: 4969

michgoblue

January 25th, 2024 at 11:09 AM ^

Brian is spot on that the unique thing about college football is the connection that the fans feel for the players. My concern is that in the world of unrestricted NIL and annual free agency caused by the portal, that connection will fade as many players will just become one or two year rentals. 

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: 32166

M-Dog

January 25th, 2024 at 11:23 AM ^

That is college basketball right now.  It seems to still be OK.

The tribalism connection of college sports is what makes it unique and what will save it from itself. 

I don't watch college sports for entertainment.  I can see the sports that are played in college at a much higher level elsewhere.  That is not why I watch. 

I watch because my college represents me.  I am connected in a way that I am not connected to just living in a city.

Joined: 07/06/2008

MGoPoints: 257507

michgoblue

January 25th, 2024 at 12:22 PM ^

College basketball does appear to be holding up, although I do know a ton of people who have lost interest due to the combo of 1-and-done, the portal and what is perceived to be a ton of kids who are treating their 1 year in college as a mandatory service requirement for the NBA (as many fans here perceived of Jett).  

Joined: 11/16/2009

MGoPoints: 32166

willirwin1778

January 25th, 2024 at 11:44 AM ^

Maybe not so spot on regarding his hot take on Jim Leonhard.  Regarding Leonhard's analyst position . . . it was pretty clearly reported he had some health issues/hip procedures? he needed to address that led him to taking an advisory role and stepping back for a season or two.  

Here is a Leonhard quote from a ways back:

“I’m being patient. I am excited about where I am at with my family and just figuring out what’s next, what the next steps are. I had some health things I needed to take care of after the season so just excited to enjoy a fall with a little bit more low key.”

I have no dog in this fight and know little about this coach, but I do remember this announcement being his reason for taking an advisory role.

Maybe cool the wild speculative stuff unless you have something and/or are willing to report this along side it.

Joined: 03/09/2013

MGoPoints: 5034

bronxblue

January 25th, 2024 at 12:26 PM ^

I'm sure Leonhard is taking some time off but I also know for a fact he very much wanted the HC job after Chryst was fired, struggled as temporary HC, and then didn't get the job afterwards.  There were a lot of rumblings (admittedly online but still pretty loud) that he helped push Chryst out and wasn't beloved by everyone involved in the process. Also, he apparently was going to get this surgery but only after trying to get the DC job with the Eagles.  Maybe the hip surgery really was bad but that's still interesting timing for a guy who claimed he wanted to take it easy right after he couldn't get a gig he wanted.

So maybe he's not fully persona non grata but I still don't get great vibes from him and frankly he feels like another guy with NFL ambitions who doesn't like re rioting and would be angling for an NFL job in every off-season as well.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171742

Lakeyale13

January 25th, 2024 at 11:24 AM ^

Are we good for 2024?  I don't know for certain.

Harbaugh gave us a Natty and I am beyond grateful, but it does seem he is leaving the cupboard a bit bare for Moore on the offensive side of the ball.  It would certainly seem that we have a tremendous challenge replacing JJ.  No on the roster seems to be a clear solution and the Transfer Portal talent may be a bit thin to go looking now after so many moves thus far.  

Trying to temper my expectations.  It has been like driving an M5 for the last 3-4 years and I don't want to go back to the Honda Accord.

Joined: 11/16/2014

MGoPoints: 27225

M-Dog

January 25th, 2024 at 11:29 AM ^

Yeah, I don't see how people are just waiving away the loss of JJ and Blake and Roman and Corn and the entire OL.  We are not set on offense. 

There is some serious work to be done there.

Our elite defense gives us a little bit of a buffer, but we don't have last year's schedule to work our way up at our leisure.  We get punched in the face early.

Joined: 07/06/2008

MGoPoints: 257507

jdemille9

January 25th, 2024 at 11:51 AM ^

Offense has a challenge after all the losses, yes but... IMO, the mitigating factors here are we have a lot of tenured guys waiting in the wings to step into those roles. We're in a reloading mode, not rebuilding.

Now, don't take that to mean I don't think there's gonna be a drop off from 2023 offense, there absolutely will be. But all the guys who are stepping into starting roles have been here a few years and while not all have real game reps we're not asking a bunch of first/second year players to jump in. 

I think QB and WR worries me more than OL and RB though.

Replacing JJ is gonna be 'impossible', dude was a once in every 20 years QB. Replacing Blake is mitigated with Edwards returning and the promise of Mullings, Ben Hall and other guys like Cole Cabana and Jordan Marshall. OL is going to be guys who've been here 3+ years in this system and some do have game experience. 

I don't see a step back to Honda Accord but yeah, we'd be naive to think there wouldn't be a step back, even if Harbaugh came back. Just the nature of the beast in college football.

Joined: 01/29/2011

MGoPoints: 8523

MGoRhinoAZ

January 25th, 2024 at 12:00 PM ^

There continues to be a thought that Herbert is not a flight risk because the NFL doesn't use S&C like college - but it would be just like JMFH to implement something out of the norm.

 

Also, is there room for Biff P with the upcoming openings which would be more attractive than his current position? Spit balling...

Joined: 06/23/2017

MGoPoints: 3255

Dailysportseditor

January 25th, 2024 at 12:17 PM ^

Jim Harbaugh single-handedly resurrected the Michigan football program from mediocrity.  He left the NFL to re-build a Michigan program from the ashes of a single double digit win season in the prior 7 years.  He did what no college coach in the modern era of playoffs has done- winning 3 consecutive league championships and playoff berths plus a 15-0 national championship in a 3 year period.  I think he deserves the right to work at the NFL level again and the eternal respect of anyone connected to Michigan football- alumni, students, faculty, staff, administrators, media and fans.

Joined: 01/14/2012

MGoPoints: 472

Ernis

January 25th, 2024 at 12:18 PM ^

I took Craig’s point about the AD bungling as of greater relevance than Brian states. The issues that may have led to Harbaugh leaving for greener pastures are not just a matter of whether or not he could have been kept from the allure of winning a Super Bowl, they’re also pertinent to whether the AD will appropriately support the next HC and put the team in a position to succeed.

The NCAA is vulnerable right now and further debasement of the football program at the behest of their unreasonable enforcement actions should be seen as incompetence and an abject failure of administrative leadership. And in my view there is a glaring question around what the compliance department was doing internally to manage, prevent, mitigate etc. issues around the two major NCAA scandals dropped on JJH. I expect there are some gaps in the program, to say the least, and will the next coach be expected to fill them or will compliance do its job? 

This is our concern, Dude.

Joined: 09/23/2008

MGoPoints: 11480

Dunder

January 25th, 2024 at 12:42 PM ^

If, indeed, the Moore hire is a given the concerns about the competence of the AD and where we should judge are in these areas:

1. Is the AD succeeding in enabling Michigan football to compete on the NIL/recruitment/player retention front with Oregon and OSU?

2. Is the AD successful in finding the next men's basketball head coach?

3. Is the AD relentlessly working all avenues and contacts available to force the removal of the incompetent conference commissioner? 

Joined: 09/04/2010

MGoPoints: 8072

bronxblue

January 25th, 2024 at 12:20 PM ^

Good stuff.  I don't get where Craig is getting some of his info about what UM did vs. didn't do with Harbaugh, but it's weird to hear a lawyer claim UM should have given immunity to Harbaugh but not ask for a buyout.  I mean, I get that as the position of you're Harbaugh's attorney but objectively both sides have a right to negotiate and protect themselves.  As Brian pointed out, Harbaugh has been here for 9 years and spent the last 3 trying to get another crack at the SB; he got UM an NC and that's enough and expecting more is silly.

Yeah, I don't want Leonhard.  He absolutely stabbed Cryst on the way out and when he didn't get the job it was clear the team and school didn't get good vibes from him. Get Orr from the Ravens or someone like him and then patch together a linebacker coach who's a great recruiter.  UM wasn't going to be a favorite to repeat as a champion next year but this team has enough talent to make the playoffs and then 2025 could be another year to compete for a title with some luck.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 171742