I always have trouble sorting what's real and what's not when it comes to Notre Dame, especially because they're so darn active on Wikipedia these days. Did they really push Lou Holtz out the door so he wouldn't exceed Knute Rockne's record?* Did Michigan really refuse to play Notre Dame after 1909 because they were upset over losing 11-3?† Did the Gipper really give a dying speech in the locker room of the Army game imploring Gorbechev to tear down this wall?‡ Did O'Leary really invent sticky notes?§ We peel back the myths in this week's roundtable, getting answers this time from such legends as:

• Brian Rockne
• Ace Parseghian
• Sethib Ismail
• Blue & Gold in South Holth

And the question:

Separate the real Notre Dame from the legend: was last year's 12-1 season against an apparently brutal schedule a thing of luck, a thing of talent (here or gone), or the first sign that Kelly has managed to recreate Grand Valley State in BCS form?

BiSB: Notre Dame deserved to be in the National Championship game. They also deserved to get their doors blown off in the National Championship game. The 12-1 wasn't exactly awe-inspiring, but it was legit. They beat Stanford, Oklahoma, Michigan, USC, and Michigan State, and you don't get to 12-0 with those teams on your schedule without being pretty good. The part that bugged people was the close games and sheer luck against some pretty crappy teams. Pitt alone missed like eleven game-winning field goals against the Irish. But while nailbiters against Purdue and BYU do not scream "national title contender," but go back and look at the 2002 Ohio State national title season some time (do not actually do this). Most teams need some ridiculous luck, and to survive some close games against inferior competition, to go undefeated.

[Continued after the jump]

Long term, though, that is not the kind of season that portends the eponymous "Return to Glory." Hell, even if they replayed LAST season, the odds they finish 12-0 are pretty slim. Notre Dame is recruiting well, but they're leaking 4- and 5-star commits and players at an alarming rate. It seems like Brian Kelly can at least coach college kids, which the previous coach couldn't, so I wouldn't expect the post-BCS cratering that occurred under Weis. My guess: I think they'll return to the days of 9-3 records and undeserved BCS bowls in which they get stomped by far superior teams.

It's as if a million voices cried out, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened. USPResswire via ESPN

Ace: Very much agree with Bryan [Blue in South Bend]—last year's Irish squad had an elite defense and a good-enough offense, and with that schedule going 12-0 very much earns you a spot in the title game. Did they get a little lucky? Absolutely; ND went 5-0 in one-possession games last year, and they got gifts from Michigan (ALL OF THE PICKS) and Pitt (being Pitt; also, ND had two players on the field wearing the same number when Pitt missed a potential game-winning FG, so they should've had another crack at it). Were they also very good? Yes. Getting blown out by Alabama happens to very good teams, and the list of very good teams Notre Dame managed to top deservedly put them in position to play for the title.

I think they'll fall back to earth this year; not dramatically, but they won't be BCS title contenders in 2013, and getting back there depends on whether Kelly can figure out why his team can't hold onto a large number of their elite recruits. They should vacillate between nine-win semi-disappointments and 11-win contenders unless they reach a point where Kelly can't replace the outgoing talent; so far, he's doing pretty well at restocking.

Brian: As Vladimir Putin is fond of saying, "any time you need three overtimes and a kicker meltdown to beat Pitt, you're not really elite." The gentlemen above have covered the nature of Notre Dame's previous undefeated season: it was damn lucky, beyond the usual amount of luck it requires to make it to the national title game.

But Notre Dame isn't going away. Well, not from Purdue. From us, sure.

The point. I had a point. The point is, Brian Kelly is an established winner at multiple places who's recruiting at a very good clip. Not a great clip since he's had a nasty tendency to see the top fifth of his class decimated a year into their careers, but a very good one. Diaco is apparently not the clueless twit he seemed after that one Navy game, and Kelly's got the offense stuff on lockdown. I hate to say it, but for the next decade or so they're going to be a legitimately top ten program. Sorry guys.

Seth: The answer to every question about 2012 Notre Dame is "Manti Te'o." Te'o could cover the flat and a Tampa 2 zone on his own. Brian suggested at the time that Borges was structurally putting him in a bad spot by having him deal with pressure and that's valid. The reason ND didn't mind doing all sorts of stuff with their DL was Te'o was causing third and longs. He timed one blitz so well he came in completely unblocked and caused an interception.

Three guesses what ND fans were complaining about after the Temple game? If you said "our linebackers can't cover" you win zero points. Kelly is a good football coach (we saw plenty of him at Grand Valley State) and also a major putz, likewise Notre Dame. They will continue to fill a national recruiting niche and thus will be more susceptible to a widespread trend of more player movement. But that niche is poorer today; a half-hearted relationship with the ACC isn't likely to give them any more push in the South, and the closest thing to a homebase for them—Chicago—is nearly as rough these days. Their midpoint will be 9-4.

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* No. But neither is it true that he left because, as with every other coaching stop, he took off right before his school was slapped with sanctions for his tenure. ¶

† We were hardly blameless but Yost's stated reason was that ND was using ineligible players. Yost also went all around the Big Ten trying to get other teams not to play the Irish because of their supposedly loose eligibility standards.

‡ Only Rockne knows if Gipp ever said anything before he died of pneumonia.

§ It says so on his resume.

¶ Except yes it was.

Bonus question: your favorite Myth of the Irish.

Bryan: It's a relatively recent development: "Michigan isn't really our rival." I wandered the campus of Notre Dame and the surrounding South Bend community for several years, often in my Michigan gear. It was made very clear to me by random passers-by in parking lots, grocery stores, and one particularly rude sandwich shop that Michigan was not welcome here. No one gave two craps about Purdue. No one gave more than two/thirds of a crap about MSU. It was USC, and it was Michigan. In 2008 they sure seemed pretty proud of their rivalry win, and took every opportunity to point it out to me. A common refrain in South Bend, regardless of the time of year, is "it's [whatever time] and Michigan still sucks."

The coaches and players had no problem referring to it as a rivalry. A few years back, Notre Dame's official website was referring to the "Historic Rivalry" as "one of the nation's great rivalries." But that was when it was about the Rocket and Notre Dame coach Greg Mattison and  But then Mario Manningham and Jimmy Clausen for Heisman and Greg Mathews and Denard and Denard, and all of a sudden it's a "series." Don't be that ex, Notre Dame.

Ace: My favorite Notre Dame myth is that legendary snap-jumper walk-on Rudy Ruettiger committed fraud by artificially inflating the stock price of his self-branded sports drink. Oh, wait, that one totally happened.

Brian: My favorite Notre Dame myth is this one, penned by an ND Nation fellow on the occasion of Brian Cushing's commitment to USC:

October 20, 2007

As he trudged off the field in the light rain, Brian thought it wasn't supposed to be like this. He could hear the "We're Number 1" chant from the Notre Dame student section, but it was muted. He still had the ringing in his ears from early in the game when he tried to tackle Schwapp, the guy they call "The Human Bowling Ball".

He thought the near turnover on the kickoff might work to SC's advantage. Following ND's recovery of its own fumbled kickoff, the Irish were pinned down at the 11. Not for long. The perfectly camoflaged [sic] draw play to Schwapp yielded 30 yards and a day-long headache for Brian. On the next play, Heisman candidate Walker went for 8 yards, and Brian got blind-sided by Incarnato. Hord's catch for a TD on the next play was the first of three for the day, and the resurgent Irish were off and running.

"We're number 1", We're number 1" followed him into the tunnel. He escaped the bedlam in the stadium only to find a tomblike atmosphere in the Trojan locker room. Lying amidst the discarded tape and bandages, Sanchez did not appear to respond to the smelling salts. No wonder. As he ran on to the field following Mark's fumble, he remembered Zbikowski hovering over the fallen Trojan qb, yelling, "Get up bitch". The trainers allowed as how a night at St. Joe's might be prudent. The young junior could fly back tomorrow.

No such luck for me, Brian thought, wincing as he pulled off his white away jersey, now soiled with grass stains, drops of blood, and tiny flecks of gold paint. I've got the long plane ride home, then I have to study for my "History of Cartoons" midterm. Then, practice. No rest for the weary. They had Ty's Dawgs coming into the Coliseum next Saturday.

As he packed his bag, he thought back 2 years when he made his decision to attend USC. He remembered how it was sort of fun toying with Charlie. Now, he wondered if that was wise. He had an inkling during warmups when he approached Weis. "Hey Coach", he said in his best Jersey accent. The eyes said it all. He did not have to wait for the "who the fuck are you?".

Inconclusive

I mean, there were people standing right there and it's their jobs to know whether Armando Allen stepped out of bounds or just toed the line. They didn't institute replay to make the referees useless; it was just for obviously blown calls. Like the Bush Push. Besides Notre Dame never gets the calls from the refs; they would have more championships than the Yankees if the NCAA wasn't always out to get them.