Your a dolt, minor league athletes earn 25% of what Michigan football player earns.
You're conflating the value of the Michigan brand with the value of irrelevant players who play 3 or 4 years and move on.
You could replace every single player on the Michigan football team and replace them with student walk on's and Michigan would still sell out every game.
"And of course, through all of this, football and basketball players, who actually generate all the revenue, get nothing."
This is such a juvenile, uniformed, clueless statement. I see it all the time and it drives me batshit crazy.
Let's see what your "nothing" entails:
World class coaching
World class strength and conditioning
Free tuition to one of the finest educational institutions in the world
Free housing
Free meals
Free tutoring
Free brand development
Free EXPOSURE (Jabrill Peppers was a household name while still in college, a star)
To play devil's advocate, let's presume there is no "college" football but instead a minor league football system, akin to basketballs G League, baseballs triple A farm teams or minor league hockey- where you presumably believe the players get "something" as in paid.
Your "something" entails:
Coaching a notch above high school (Jim Harbaughs not coaching the Michigan Scapegoats Minor League football team- it's a recently retired, all be it successful, high school coach)
Strength and conditioning a notch above high school
Between 30k and 40k in gross salary (do a Google search, you maybe surprised at how little minor league athletes earn) that you have to pay taxes on, agent fees, and your own room and board.
No education at all
No brand development
No EXPOSURE at all - with an average of 600 fans per game no one knows who you are and never will unless you succeed at the next level.
There is tons and tons and tons of money in college football, but the reason the money exist is because the INSTITUTIONS have millions and millions of fans. Remove the INSTITUTIONS from the equation and there in NO MONEY, just like there is NO MONEY in G League basketball, minor league baseball or minor league hockey.
College football players are more than fairly compensated (far better than any other minor league athlete and have absolutely nothing to do with the obscene money CFB produces.
Sorry to butt in on your fine conversation regarding this topic, but I have struggled with this issue and view it as follows:
1. I often see comments like, "the players are taken advantage of" ; "the universities and coaches are making millions and the kids get nothing"; "the system treats the players like indentured servants, making money off of them" etc...
These types of comments drive me crazy because they fail to recognize the relationship between the student athlete and the University, the quid pro quo between the parties, if you will.
D1 Universities and Colleges, all of them, offer the student athlete football player the following:
Tuition, room&board, books, tutors, and stipends with a yearly value of between $30k to over $100k depending on the University;
The opportunity to earn a degree, which will increase their earnings potential for the rest of their working lives;
World class individual coaching in a sport many wish to become professional in if they can become polished enough to be drafted;
World class strength, training, nutrition, and medical care, all free of charge, in the hopes of getting physically prepared to earn a living as a professional;
Exposure. An opportunity to expose your skills to fans and alumni, but even more importantly, to expose your skills to the scouts, GM's, coaches and Nfl owners all of whom make yearly decisions on whom to draft (hire) and where to draft (salary).
Advocacy and PR. The coaches and assistants are going to pump you up to the scouts and GM's, call on their connections in the NFL to create buzz and hype for you to become drafted as highly as possible because the higher you are drafted, the better it is for the Coach, University, and program going forward.
Notoriety, branding and marketing. Many student athlete football players have the opportunity to play for schools who have millions to tens of millions of yearly fans and alumni, with full time marketing departments, where a player could become in 1 year, in 1 game or even on 1 play- a household name. Instant notoriety and fame which in itself has monetary value.
ALL OF THE ABOVE IS WHAT THE SCHOOL GIVES THE PLAYER.
The student athlete FB player offers the University the following:
He will represent and play for the University exclusively (although even this limited consideration has become watered down by the transfer portal).
This is the entirety of the quid pro quo: your going to give me an education, food and shelter, training, exposure, medical care, PR and marketing and I'm going to represent your school on the football team, in the classroom and in the community unless or until I enter the transfer portal.
Having determined what the parties get from one another in their agreement we then need to address the white elephant in the room.
"WHAT ABOUT ALL THE MONEY IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL, MILLIONS TO COACHES, TENS OF MILLIONS TO UNIVERSITIES, NOTHING TO THE KIDS"
It is undeniable that there are billions and billions of dollars earned yearly from college football. It is undeniable that coaching salaries, even for assistants, have spiraled higher and higher with no indication of it stalling or decreasing in the future.
The "where and why there is so much $ in college football" is the question no one ever addresses or answers when debating player compensation.
There are farm systems and developmental leagues for all professional sports:
Hockey, baseball, basketball, football, soccer.
Every sports farm system is league run and paid for by the league itself except COLLEGE FOOTBALL. The NFL has a free farm system provided to them without any cost or investment.
If one looks closely at D league basketball, minor league hockey, and minor league baseball you will find that they all have mandated minimal salaries for their players.
The last time I researched it the minimums where $45k w/o room and board for minor league basketball, 60k w/o room and board for hockey, and as little as 11k w/o room and board for lower class minor baseball.
All of the above players are paid to play their sport but they get none of the extra benefits afforded by a D1 scholarship except for the coaching and exposure aspects.
What's shocking is that none of the above players make more $ than the DI player is paid in room board and tuition. The D league basketball player makes less than the value of a Western Michigan players scholarship. The minor league baseball player makes less than the value of the UofM's scholarship baseball player.
Why are minor league salaries so low? Because they have very small and limited fan bases. There's no money being generated by these minor leagues.
But Universities, to varying degrees, have built in fan bases, some with tens of millions of nationwide, rabid, consistent fans. So college football has millions of millions of fans because of the universities and alumni which in turn generates billions and billions of dollars
College football is Uber profitable because of the investments made and fan bases of the Universities themselves.
If you were to create a minor league football league and took the universities out of the equation, there would be no $ for the players because there would be no fans.
My conclusion is that players should not be paid because they didn't build, invest in or create the brand and fan bases that create all the $, the universities did that and deserve to retain the profits from their investments.
It's really the Nfl that should be compensating the college players as they take the benefit S of CFB without any investment in it.
Sorry to butt in on your fine conversation regarding this topic, but I have struggled with this issue and view it as follows:
1. I often see comments like, "the players are taken advantage of" ; "the universities and coaches are making millions and the kids get nothing"; "the system treats the players like indentured servants, making money off of them" etc...
These types of comments drive me crazy because they fail to recognize the relationship between the student athlete and the University, the quid pro quo between the parties, if you will.
D1 Universities and Colleges, all of them, offer the student athlete football player the following:
Tuition, room&board, books, tutors, and stipends with a yearly value of between $30k to over $100k depending on the University;
The opportunity to earn a degree, which will increase their earnings potential for the rest of their working lives;
World class individual coaching in a sport many wish to become professional in if they can become polished enough to be drafted;
World class strength, training, nutrition, and medical care, all free of charge, in the hopes of getting physically prepared to earn a living as a professional;
Exposure. An opportunity to expose your skills to fans and alumni, but even more importantly, to expose your skills to the scouts, GM's, coaches and Nfl owners all of whom make yearly decisions on whom to draft (hire) and where to draft (salary).
Advocacy and PR. The coaches and assistants are going to pump you up to the scouts and GM's, call on their connections in the NFL to create buzz and hype for you to become drafted as highly as possible because the higher you are drafted, the better it is for the Coach, University, and program going forward.
Notoriety, branding and marketing. Many student athlete football players have the opportunity to play for schools who have millions to tens of millions of yearly fans and alumni, with full time marketing departments, where a player could become in 1 year, in 1 game or even on 1 play- a household name. Instant notoriety and fame which in itself has monetary value.
ALL OF THE ABOVE IS WHAT THE SCHOOL GIVES THE PLAYER.
The student athlete FB player offers the University the following:
He will represent and play for the University exclusively (although even this limited consideration has become watered down by the transfer portal).
This is the entirety of the quid pro quo: your going to give me an education, food and shelter, training, exposure, medical care, PR and marketing and I'm going to represent your school on the football team, in the classroom and in the community unless or until I enter the transfer portal.
Having determined what the parties get from one another in their agreement we then need to address the white elephant in the room.
"WHAT ABOUT ALL THE MONEY IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL, MILLIONS TO COACHES, TENS OF MILLIONS TO UNIVERSITIES, NOTHING TO THE KIDS"
It is undeniable that there are billions and billions of dollars earned yearly from college football. It is undeniable that coaching salaries, even for assistants, have spiraled higher and higher with no indication of it stalling or decreasing in the future.
The "where and why there is so much $ in college football" is the question no one ever addresses or answers when debating player compensation.
There are farm systems and developmental leagues for all professional sports:
Hockey, baseball, basketball, football, soccer.
Every sports farm system is league run and paid for by the league itself except COLLEGE FOOTBALL. The NFL has a free farm system provided to them without any cost or investment.
If one looks closely at D league basketball, minor league hockey, and minor league baseball you will find that they all have mandated minimal salaries for their players.
The last time I researched it the minimums where $45k w/o room and board for minor league basketball, 60k w/o room and board for hockey, and as little as 11k w/o room and board for lower class minor baseball.
All of the above players are paid to play their sport but they get none of the extra benefits afforded by a D1 scholarship except for the coaching and exposure aspects.
What's shocking is that none of the above players make more $ than the DI player is paid in room board and tuition. The D league basketball player makes less than the value of a Western Michigan players scholarship. The minor league baseball player makes less than the value of the UofM's scholarship baseball player.
Why are minor league salaries so low? Because they have very small and limited fan bases. There's no money being generated by these minor leagues.
But Universities, to varying degrees, have built in fan bases, some with tens of millions of nationwide, rabid, consistent fans. So college football has millions of millions of fans because of the universities and alumni which in turn generates billions and billions of dollars
College football is Uber profitable because of the investments made and fan bases of the Universities themselves.
If you were to create a minor league football league and took the universities out of the equation, there would be no $ for the players because there would be no fans.
My conclusion is that players should not be paid because they didn't build, invest in or create the brand and fan bases that create all the $, the universities did that and deserve to retain the profits from their investments.
According to the 2015 IRS report and census 15 states paid more PER CAPITA in federal contributions than California, including Ohio. California had the most gross federal revenue, but thats because they are the largest state.
The reason Californians are paying less PER CAPITA in federal revenue is because the state of California has ginned up the system and failed to keep their state taxes in check thereby causing citizens in 15 states to subsidize the citizens of California for their lack of self discipline.
If a flat federal tax was implemented without ANY DEDUCTIONS, California would stand a strong chance of becoming the 2 largest state in the union.
Under your system the playoffs might look like this- this year:
Alabama
Oklahoma
Wisconsin
Virginia Tech
All conference winners, but other than Alabama, none considered amongst the very best teams this year. The stated purpose of the CFP was to ensure that the 4 "best" teams made the playoffs and to prevent the unfairness of the BCS model where when you lost was more important than how good you were.
Under the new CFP model the goal is to look at empirical data, such as strength of schedule, record against top competition, how well or poorly the team controled the game whether in a loss or win, the eye test, losses, conference championships won, and injuries if significant.
Part of the reason for the new system was to create better competition in the playoffs- to avoid an Alabama playing at full strength against a Texas who lost their QB right before the championships, or where a team may have won their conference, but empirical evidence suggests their not the best team in their conference; ie: Bama losing to Tennessee in the SEC championship on some flukey plays where Bama beat them during the year 49-10.
The system was not set up to determine the best 4 conference champions in a 5 conference system but rather the 4 best teams, who may or may not have won their conference. If it were a matter of just selecting the 4 best conference champs there would be no need for a committee, weekly rankings, and empirical differences between teams, computers instead would be able to accurately assess wich conference as a whole was the worst conference.
Interestingly, if it were just the conference champions from the 4 best conferecnes then Alabama may not be selected, even if undefeated, as they have arguably the least competitive of all conferences this year.
Dont let your hatred for Ohio State cloud your assessment of the goal of the committee. Emotions and knee jerk reactions make for terrible rules and precedents.
Recent Comments
I think you guys finished 3rd in this battle. The Michigan jersey was in the Oregon bag.
Your a dolt, minor league athletes earn 25% of what Michigan football player earns.
You're conflating the value of the Michigan brand with the value of irrelevant players who play 3 or 4 years and move on.
You could replace every single player on the Michigan football team and replace them with student walk on's and Michigan would still sell out every game.
It's about the INSTITUTION, not the player
"And of course, through all of this, football and basketball players, who actually generate all the revenue, get nothing."
This is such a juvenile, uniformed, clueless statement. I see it all the time and it drives me batshit crazy.
Let's see what your "nothing" entails:
World class coaching
World class strength and conditioning
Free tuition to one of the finest educational institutions in the world
Free housing
Free meals
Free tutoring
Free brand development
Free EXPOSURE (Jabrill Peppers was a household name while still in college, a star)
To play devil's advocate, let's presume there is no "college" football but instead a minor league football system, akin to basketballs G League, baseballs triple A farm teams or minor league hockey- where you presumably believe the players get "something" as in paid.
Your "something" entails:
Coaching a notch above high school (Jim Harbaughs not coaching the Michigan Scapegoats Minor League football team- it's a recently retired, all be it successful, high school coach)
Strength and conditioning a notch above high school
Between 30k and 40k in gross salary (do a Google search, you maybe surprised at how little minor league athletes earn) that you have to pay taxes on, agent fees, and your own room and board.
No education at all
No brand development
No EXPOSURE at all - with an average of 600 fans per game no one knows who you are and never will unless you succeed at the next level.
There is tons and tons and tons of money in college football, but the reason the money exist is because the INSTITUTIONS have millions and millions of fans. Remove the INSTITUTIONS from the equation and there in NO MONEY, just like there is NO MONEY in G League basketball, minor league baseball or minor league hockey.
College football players are more than fairly compensated (far better than any other minor league athlete and have absolutely nothing to do with the obscene money CFB produces.
Sorry to butt in on your fine conversation regarding this topic, but I have struggled with this issue and view it as follows:
1. I often see comments like, "the players are taken advantage of" ; "the universities and coaches are making millions and the kids get nothing"; "the system treats the players like indentured servants, making money off of them" etc...
These types of comments drive me crazy because they fail to recognize the relationship between the student athlete and the University, the quid pro quo between the parties, if you will.
D1 Universities and Colleges, all of them, offer the student athlete football player the following:
Tuition, room&board, books, tutors, and stipends with a yearly value of between $30k to over $100k depending on the University;
The opportunity to earn a degree, which will increase their earnings potential for the rest of their working lives;
World class individual coaching in a sport many wish to become professional in if they can become polished enough to be drafted;
World class strength, training, nutrition, and medical care, all free of charge, in the hopes of getting physically prepared to earn a living as a professional;
Exposure. An opportunity to expose your skills to fans and alumni, but even more importantly, to expose your skills to the scouts, GM's, coaches and Nfl owners all of whom make yearly decisions on whom to draft (hire) and where to draft (salary).
Advocacy and PR. The coaches and assistants are going to pump you up to the scouts and GM's, call on their connections in the NFL to create buzz and hype for you to become drafted as highly as possible because the higher you are drafted, the better it is for the Coach, University, and program going forward.
Notoriety, branding and marketing. Many student athlete football players have the opportunity to play for schools who have millions to tens of millions of yearly fans and alumni, with full time marketing departments, where a player could become in 1 year, in 1 game or even on 1 play- a household name. Instant notoriety and fame which in itself has monetary value.
ALL OF THE ABOVE IS WHAT THE SCHOOL GIVES THE PLAYER.
The student athlete FB player offers the University the following:
He will represent and play for the University exclusively (although even this limited consideration has become watered down by the transfer portal).
This is the entirety of the quid pro quo: your going to give me an education, food and shelter, training, exposure, medical care, PR and marketing and I'm going to represent your school on the football team, in the classroom and in the community unless or until I enter the transfer portal.
Having determined what the parties get from one another in their agreement we then need to address the white elephant in the room.
"WHAT ABOUT ALL THE MONEY IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL, MILLIONS TO COACHES, TENS OF MILLIONS TO UNIVERSITIES, NOTHING TO THE KIDS"
It is undeniable that there are billions and billions of dollars earned yearly from college football. It is undeniable that coaching salaries, even for assistants, have spiraled higher and higher with no indication of it stalling or decreasing in the future.
The "where and why there is so much $ in college football" is the question no one ever addresses or answers when debating player compensation.
There are farm systems and developmental leagues for all professional sports:
Hockey, baseball, basketball, football, soccer.
Every sports farm system is league run and paid for by the league itself except COLLEGE FOOTBALL. The NFL has a free farm system provided to them without any cost or investment.
If one looks closely at D league basketball, minor league hockey, and minor league baseball you will find that they all have mandated minimal salaries for their players.
The last time I researched it the minimums where $45k w/o room and board for minor league basketball, 60k w/o room and board for hockey, and as little as 11k w/o room and board for lower class minor baseball.
All of the above players are paid to play their sport but they get none of the extra benefits afforded by a D1 scholarship except for the coaching and exposure aspects.
What's shocking is that none of the above players make more $ than the DI player is paid in room board and tuition. The D league basketball player makes less than the value of a Western Michigan players scholarship. The minor league baseball player makes less than the value of the UofM's scholarship baseball player.
Why are minor league salaries so low? Because they have very small and limited fan bases. There's no money being generated by these minor leagues.
But Universities, to varying degrees, have built in fan bases, some with tens of millions of nationwide, rabid, consistent fans. So college football has millions of millions of fans because of the universities and alumni which in turn generates billions and billions of dollars
College football is Uber profitable because of the investments made and fan bases of the Universities themselves.
If you were to create a minor league football league and took the universities out of the equation, there would be no $ for the players because there would be no fans.
My conclusion is that players should not be paid because they didn't build, invest in or create the brand and fan bases that create all the $, the universities did that and deserve to retain the profits from their investments.
It's really the Nfl that should be compensating the college players as they take the benefit S of CFB without any investment in it.
Sorry to butt in on your fine conversation regarding this topic, but I have struggled with this issue and view it as follows:
1. I often see comments like, "the players are taken advantage of" ; "the universities and coaches are making millions and the kids get nothing"; "the system treats the players like indentured servants, making money off of them" etc...
These types of comments drive me crazy because they fail to recognize the relationship between the student athlete and the University, the quid pro quo between the parties, if you will.
D1 Universities and Colleges, all of them, offer the student athlete football player the following:
Tuition, room&board, books, tutors, and stipends with a yearly value of between $30k to over $100k depending on the University;
The opportunity to earn a degree, which will increase their earnings potential for the rest of their working lives;
World class individual coaching in a sport many wish to become professional in if they can become polished enough to be drafted;
World class strength, training, nutrition, and medical care, all free of charge, in the hopes of getting physically prepared to earn a living as a professional;
Exposure. An opportunity to expose your skills to fans and alumni, but even more importantly, to expose your skills to the scouts, GM's, coaches and Nfl owners all of whom make yearly decisions on whom to draft (hire) and where to draft (salary).
Advocacy and PR. The coaches and assistants are going to pump you up to the scouts and GM's, call on their connections in the NFL to create buzz and hype for you to become drafted as highly as possible because the higher you are drafted, the better it is for the Coach, University, and program going forward.
Notoriety, branding and marketing. Many student athlete football players have the opportunity to play for schools who have millions to tens of millions of yearly fans and alumni, with full time marketing departments, where a player could become in 1 year, in 1 game or even on 1 play- a household name. Instant notoriety and fame which in itself has monetary value.
ALL OF THE ABOVE IS WHAT THE SCHOOL GIVES THE PLAYER.
The student athlete FB player offers the University the following:
He will represent and play for the University exclusively (although even this limited consideration has become watered down by the transfer portal).
This is the entirety of the quid pro quo: your going to give me an education, food and shelter, training, exposure, medical care, PR and marketing and I'm going to represent your school on the football team, in the classroom and in the community unless or until I enter the transfer portal.
Having determined what the parties get from one another in their agreement we then need to address the white elephant in the room.
"WHAT ABOUT ALL THE MONEY IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL, MILLIONS TO COACHES, TENS OF MILLIONS TO UNIVERSITIES, NOTHING TO THE KIDS"
It is undeniable that there are billions and billions of dollars earned yearly from college football. It is undeniable that coaching salaries, even for assistants, have spiraled higher and higher with no indication of it stalling or decreasing in the future.
The "where and why there is so much $ in college football" is the question no one ever addresses or answers when debating player compensation.
There are farm systems and developmental leagues for all professional sports:
Hockey, baseball, basketball, football, soccer.
Every sports farm system is league run and paid for by the league itself except COLLEGE FOOTBALL. The NFL has a free farm system provided to them without any cost or investment.
If one looks closely at D league basketball, minor league hockey, and minor league baseball you will find that they all have mandated minimal salaries for their players.
The last time I researched it the minimums where $45k w/o room and board for minor league basketball, 60k w/o room and board for hockey, and as little as 11k w/o room and board for lower class minor baseball.
All of the above players are paid to play their sport but they get none of the extra benefits afforded by a D1 scholarship except for the coaching and exposure aspects.
What's shocking is that none of the above players make more $ than the DI player is paid in room board and tuition. The D league basketball player makes less than the value of a Western Michigan players scholarship. The minor league baseball player makes less than the value of the UofM's scholarship baseball player.
Why are minor league salaries so low? Because they have very small and limited fan bases. There's no money being generated by these minor leagues.
But Universities, to varying degrees, have built in fan bases, some with tens of millions of nationwide, rabid, consistent fans. So college football has millions of millions of fans because of the universities and alumni which in turn generates billions and billions of dollars
College football is Uber profitable because of the investments made and fan bases of the Universities themselves.
If you were to create a minor league football league and took the universities out of the equation, there would be no $ for the players because there would be no fans.
My conclusion is that players should not be paid because they didn't build, invest in or create the brand and fan bases that create all the $, the universities did that and deserve to retain the profits from their investments.
According to the 2015 IRS report and census 15 states paid more PER CAPITA in federal contributions than California, including Ohio. California had the most gross federal revenue, but thats because they are the largest state.
The reason Californians are paying less PER CAPITA in federal revenue is because the state of California has ginned up the system and failed to keep their state taxes in check thereby causing citizens in 15 states to subsidize the citizens of California for their lack of self discipline.
If a flat federal tax was implemented without ANY DEDUCTIONS, California would stand a strong chance of becoming the 2 largest state in the union.
Your wrong because:
Under your system the playoffs might look like this- this year:
Alabama
Oklahoma
Wisconsin
Virginia Tech
All conference winners, but other than Alabama, none considered amongst the very best teams this year. The stated purpose of the CFP was to ensure that the 4 "best" teams made the playoffs and to prevent the unfairness of the BCS model where when you lost was more important than how good you were.
Under the new CFP model the goal is to look at empirical data, such as strength of schedule, record against top competition, how well or poorly the team controled the game whether in a loss or win, the eye test, losses, conference championships won, and injuries if significant.
Part of the reason for the new system was to create better competition in the playoffs- to avoid an Alabama playing at full strength against a Texas who lost their QB right before the championships, or where a team may have won their conference, but empirical evidence suggests their not the best team in their conference; ie: Bama losing to Tennessee in the SEC championship on some flukey plays where Bama beat them during the year 49-10.
The system was not set up to determine the best 4 conference champions in a 5 conference system but rather the 4 best teams, who may or may not have won their conference. If it were a matter of just selecting the 4 best conference champs there would be no need for a committee, weekly rankings, and empirical differences between teams, computers instead would be able to accurately assess wich conference as a whole was the worst conference.
Interestingly, if it were just the conference champions from the 4 best conferecnes then Alabama may not be selected, even if undefeated, as they have arguably the least competitive of all conferences this year.
Dont let your hatred for Ohio State cloud your assessment of the goal of the committee. Emotions and knee jerk reactions make for terrible rules and precedents.