Yes, it sucks, but I'll still be rooting for M next year (2020 Roster and Reasons for Optimism)

Submitted by Gulogulo37 on December 3rd, 2019 at 8:25 AM

Like the title says, I'm looking forward to next year because that's what we do. If you don't wanna do that, don't comment. "This is unacceptable. Same shit next year. Blah blah blah." Yes, there are plenty of concerns for next year and the future, but you're not going to share anything insightful or new with that, so don't bother.

I think Michigan should be better next year, and I'm doing it in the format Brian does. I feel like these are rational takes, although some may need a little explanation

 

DEFENSE (more than 11 b/c packages)

CB Ambry = Ambry

CB Gray < Hill

Hill was good, but he wasn't Jourdan Lewis. Gray is by no means a burner, but he has size and length, and his weaknesses seemed to be playing physical against the run and technique in coverage. Those both seem entirely fixable. If he improves both significantly, he'll be as good as Hill. Did Gray get burned by OSU at all? OSU caught a deep pass on him but he was there and just didn't play the ball well. Seems the weaknesses were Hudson and Metellus.

Nickel DJ Turner = Gray

S Hawkins > Hawkins

S Hill > Metellus

Metellus wasn't bad but was not a boring safety versus Indiana and OSU. Dax will still be young, but the potential is through the roof.

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LB McGrone > McGrone

LB Ross > Glasgow

Viper Barrett = Hudson

Hudson also had a bad game against OSU. A very good blizter, but a weakness in more traditional LB roles and sometimes in coverage. I thought I've read Barrett is stronger, but he's only 7 pounds heavier on the roster (207 to 200). Not much game experience as a viper, but he's been around a couple years.

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DT Dwumfour > resorting to a DE

Weird year for Dwumfour. He was injured for a lot of it, and then seemed to be coming on. Someone on Twitter thinks he may have gotten hurt against OSU because he didn't notice him later in the game. Anyone know? In Jdue's Twitter game review, Dwumfour seemed to be doing OK in the 1st half and then it seemed he was gone.

DT 2020 Hinton > 2019 Kemp

Backup DTs 2020 Kemp / Mazi > 2019 Hinton

These are a bit more based on hope than what we've actually seen, but Mazi and Hinton were 2 5-star or near 5-star talents in exactly the worst position on the field for Michigan. We absolutely need them to step up, and they absolutely have the talent to do so. Hinton showed flashes. Mazi started getting in later in the season. Not sure if Kemp will be around, but he should be. Losing him is more troublesome from a numbers perspective than play on the field though anyway.

DE Hutchinson = Hutchinson/Uche/Danna

DE Kemp = Kemp/Uche/Danna

Backup DEs Vilain/Welschof/Upshaw < Uche/Danna

Losing Uche's pass rush is a big one, but he also still didn't even play half of the snaps. It sucks losing Danna as a backup, but he wasn't better than the starters. It's easy to forget Vilain was a top-100 recruit because he's been injured. Seems he was healthy all year, so hopefully he can finally play. If he takes a significant leap he could definitely replace Uche in passing downs. The first sentence of Vilain's recruiting profile, "Luiji Vilain is a prototype edge rusher who packs the letter I into his name four times in eleven characters. Universally hailed by scouting services, Vilain's Army game surge nearly took him to five star status on 24/7." IIRC, Lorenz said the staff was high on Welschof but probably not gonna happen until next year. Obviously he was super raw when he came in.

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Seniors not losing their minds against OSU >>> Losing their minds

Brown = Brown (hopefully more evenly distributed)

Last year was definitely a scheme issue that got exposed too late for Michigan to do anything about. This year it was more personnel-driven. The lack of DTs absolutely killed us against good OLs.

That's quite a few '>' with the loss of Danna and Uche the main '<'. You could argue losing Hill will be bigger. You could argue losing Uche will be bigger, but you could also argue we'll be just as good there, especially if Vilain can stay healthy. Dax, Hinton, and Mazi could take bigger leaps than I posit here.

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OFFENSE

QB McCaffrey = Shea

Shea was throwing very well by the end, but we still sorely missed a functional QB running game. Brian didn't talk about it, but Magnus said Shea missed a lot of opportunities to cut upfield and instead kept trying to get the edge against OSU. Dylan has shown himself to be a more willing runner and has good speed. Hopefully concussions aren't an issue. We still don't really know how good of a passer he is, but he didn't get to be a solid 4 star just by being able to run. He'll have plenty of experience in the system. Of course Milton could get the job, but either way you have to figure the winner will be a good QB.

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RB Charbonnet > Charbonnet

RB Evans >> Tru

RB Haskins = Haskins

RB Turner > fumbling Turner

A lot of people have speculated Charbonnet has been playing hurt, and it's hard to disagree. We were already salivating at the idea of Evans in a Gattis offense. It really sucks Turner had a couple fumbles, and I hope he gets a fresh start in the offseason and doesn't transfer (nothing heard, just depth chart worries). He was faster than the others and ran hard. The fumbles were probably just bad luck.

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I'm assuming only Collins leaves.

WR DPJ = DPJ

WR Bell > Bell

WR Black = Black

WR Cornelius Johnson < Collins

Surely Collins this year is a much better WR than Johnson will be next year. I'm basing this largely off of how Collins was utilized. It's hard to make a comparison with Collins because he was the most talented guy on the offense, made a huge impact when he was targeted...but was usually only targeted a couple times a game. So does it suck to lose Collins? Absolutely. Is 681 yards (800 with PIs?) irreplaceable? Definitely not. Also, Collins didn't always seem to be the most enthusiastic blocker.

SLOT Sainristil/Jackson > Sainristil/Jackson

TE Eubanks = Eubanks

TE All > McKeon

Our TEs have been fine blocking, but man I really wish we had kept Asiasi. All doesn't have his size, but he's talented and seems to love blocking.

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C Ruiz = Ruiz

LT 2020 Mayfield = Runyan

RT Steuber = 2019 Mayfield

LG Whoever < Bredeson

RG Whoever < Onwenu

I have no idea who the guards will be, but the team has a lot of talented bullets in the chamber. They will almost surely be good guards but probably a bit behind this year's guards.

Gattis >>>>>>>>>>>> Gattis

I don't think the personnel will be better next year, but I don't see a drop off, except maybe at WR if there's an exodus. Either way, I think this will be made up and then some by the offense being coherent right from spring practice. They can build off of this year, instead of figuring things out halfway through the season. That should make for a much better offense overall. Yes, things were clicking before The Game, but Michigan needed to do that early in the year to really become an unstoppable TD machine by the end of the year. At the end we were still just starting to get a taste of what they could do with guys like Jackson.

 

OSU being just really really good >> OSU as maybe the best team in 30 years according to SP+

I wasn't as upset about the loss as last year. It shouldn't have been that bad, but OSU is insanely good this year, Michigan was sort of a paper tiger all year on defense without DTs, and the offense needed to do more than just start clicking before OSU.

cobra14

December 3rd, 2019 at 10:23 AM ^

What does Michigan want to be? Do they want the academic side like Northwestern or the football side like OSU. Right now Michigan plays the middle and feasts on tradition(you know I’ll root for them next year because I love Michigan) they want to charge OSU prices but not give you the same results. All while everyone can argue about going to class like the Michigan football kids are some active participants in most classes. 

 

Also Michigan offers general studies. Perfect degree for kids who just want to concentrate on football. 

mGrowOld

December 3rd, 2019 at 10:59 AM ^

FWIW the general studies degree was the main point of the radio station's rebuttal to Brian's post.  They maintained that a general studies degree was no better or harder than on-line classes.

Dont know if true or not but that was their point.

Mgoczar

December 3rd, 2019 at 11:16 AM ^

But that is not the same. You have to go to class, sit in the class, interact with instructor, students. Atleast you are a student. Online classes is a ghost student. Part of the student body? Fields probably can't name any streets on campus or whatever terrible statue on their campus. None of this matters but if he is not part of that ethos then how is not 100% pretentious "student" but in reality just doing football. 

Brian's point is the BS pretend school to the highest level. Yes, Michigan football team aren't graduating doctors (though I'd say DPJ probably will make it to Medical school...is Binjimen Victor? Doubtful), but atleast go to class etc. 

If not then they have competitive advantage. I am not siding with going full football factory. No way. Not the UM way. Im ok with losing then but better solution IS to leave this conference and have an academic league. Why not? No one has great arguments against it. 

The Mad Hatter

December 3rd, 2019 at 11:25 AM ^

The Ivies are an academic league.  No one watches their games and their already small stadiums are half empty.

I've had the same idea before, but it just wouldn't work at this point.  There is too much money being made.

We could make a go of it as an independent though, like ND.  But again, we'd be giving up A LOT of BTN money.  I can't see the AD doing that.

Mgoczar

December 3rd, 2019 at 11:30 AM ^

UM makes a lot of money anyways with or without BTN. Screw BTN. And people will watch the games, its not super academic: not gonna pretend this is Harvard here. 

But a league of Stanford, UM, UW, Northwestern, Vandy, Cal, ND is no slouch. Quality teams and institutions that give a damn about education more than SEC north in Columbus. 

Going independent is fine too. Screw tradition of playing OSU; not giving up but scales are tipped unfair the way they operate their "program"

Before people start harping on well basketball is doing well; 1. Shut up. 2. Easier to have one game changing player take you to new heights in Bball. Football you need talent everywhere (see our recent game of a few holes getting ruthlessly exploited by OSU)

pEeL wEeL

December 3rd, 2019 at 1:35 PM ^

"OSU is different from others, though, because they have as many offensive weapons as Michigan has"......

......only as many??? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA LOL yea I'm sure Ohio State is bummed out they missed out on dpj. Those 10 dropped passes coulda been in a buckeye uniform!!!

LOL OSU has a decided advantage at every positional group

lhglrkwg

December 3rd, 2019 at 11:36 AM ^

I both agree and disagree. Yes, I think swapping DCs isn't a great option because Don Brown has been awesome minus a few outliers.

OTOH, the most important game of the year is OSU. OSU isn't scoring 60 on everyone. Good defenses have held them in the 30s plenty of times and Don Brown absolutely must figure out a way to do the same. The offense showed it can score in the 30s on OSU, but it's all for nought if Brown is gonna keep giving up 60. He has to be better vs OSU

Blue_third

December 3rd, 2019 at 12:25 PM ^

I agree. I am curious what effect osu hiring Mattison and Washington had on attacking Don Brown's defense. I think this is not discussed enough. His linebacker/line coaches had time to find flaws for Day all season after being involved intricately with Don Brown's system. I agree this doesn't explain last year but I can't imagine there being no correlation to this year. 

mgobaran

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:00 AM ^

I'll play the game though. 

QB - Unknown, probably worse. 
RB - Better
WR- Worse
TE - Worse
Tackles - Worse
Guards - Worse
Center - Worse or Better depending on Ruiz

DT- Better, if Kemp plays a 5th year. Freshman should get better.
DE- Better, Hutchinson could blow up into a monster.
LB- Better
Viper-Worse
CB-Worse
Safety-Same

K-Same
P-Same
KR-Same
PR-Same

Coaching (Offense) Better
Coaching (Defense) Same or Worse Pending Brown to BC

ldevon1

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:33 AM ^

WR won't be worse, More speed in space and better understanding of the offense. I have a feeling only Nico leaves.

TE, won't be worse, it will definitely be better. We might only lose one.

Tackles might be a push. Mayfiled was good down the stretch

Guards might be a push to a little worse

Ruiz will be back, take that for what it's worth.

DT, more depth and size, should be better.

DE, better, both returning with depth

LB, better

Viper, same/better (Hudson had the worst possible year he could have)

Safety, better

CB, same

 

 

mgobaran

December 3rd, 2019 at 10:29 AM ^

I just don't see Bell, DPJ, Black improving enough to make up the gap between Collins and Johnson. Once you get to the slots, and you can even add Chris Evans into that group, I guess I just don't see enough playing time with the main 3 WRs and the use of TEs for the slot position to be amazing. Talent Wise we are losing a gem in Collins. I do think Gattis/the offense will help produce higher numbers across the board in year 2. 

TE is losing their top TE, a senior and replacing him with a true sophomore. How can you say "definitely better"?

Mayfield was good down the stretch. Hayes might be great as an upperclassman. Both are going to be better next year than they are today. But we are losing a 5th year guy who just contained the best DE (player?) in college football for 4 quarters. Please do not pretend that isn't a huge loss. 

Like I said, if Ruiz is back I project he is better.

DT, DE, LB we are on board.

Barrett hasn't played a meaningful down at Viper yet. How can you say flat out he is going to be better than Hudson? The guy was a rock back there this year, consistently stringing out horizontal runs by taking on two blocks or beating two blocks to make a play. 

Safety - Hopefully Hill makes the jump. How often is a true sophomore better than a multi year starting senior though?

Corner - Thomas will = Hill, I can believe that. But I'm not a believer in Gray being Thomas. Or any of the CBs behind them being Gray. 

Rafiki

December 3rd, 2019 at 5:08 PM ^

Re Runyan: he wasn’t the only 1 blocking Young. As usual Young was on both sides of the line. Runyan may have been left 1-1 with Young more than Mayfield but they both usually had help or the ball was out fast. Containing Young was probably 80% scheme. Mayfield was actually fine in the game as osu’s other DE are obviously also good. 
 

The line will see everyone who leaves drafted which I think will include Ruiz. He struggled early but came on late this and started the season highly regarded at his position anyway. He could come back but as a C another year may not change much and he risks injury. If he doesn’t come back they have a lot of 4 star talent behind them that has been in the system. The transition likely won’t be seamless but should be ok. 
 

Re WR: Collins is the best WR UM has had this decade if not longer. He is amazing at jump balls and had really sure hands. However he wasn’t a dynamic after the catch guy or a burner. Trading his jump ball skills and hands for a guy like Hamler isn’t a downgrade. They have different strengths. Given that at least Black will be back I actually think adding a dynamic after the catch guy will make up for what they lose in Collins. 

The Baughz

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:15 AM ^

Yep losing Metellus will be a blessing in disguise. He was average at best and was awful in deep coverage.

I had a meeting today and a guy I work with comes up to me before asking who the heck #14 is. Said he wouldn’t even start for his favorite team...which is WVU.

Thats how my day started today. 

Spirit of 69

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:03 AM ^

In regards to Turner, I don't think it was just fumbles keeping him off the field. There was a noticeable drop in pass protection ability with him on the field at running back. It's always been tough to see the field as a running back for this staff if your pass blocking isn't up to snuff. Hopefully some offseason film study will help him to identify his assignment more reliably. I agree he appeared to have more burst when he did see the field. I think the offense could really benefit from that burst at running back, whether it's from him or possibly more of the package that Jackson lined up in the backfield. Next year's edition of the offense could really use a guy that's a threat to house it any given time he's on the field.

OkinawaGoBlue

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:05 AM ^

One thing I will not do is believe all the pre-season hype, beginning in spring and carrying on to the fall.  Shame on me for believing the last couple of years.  Go Blue.

True Blue 9

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:12 AM ^

Honestly this is close to where I'm at. I'd prefer next year's team came in unranked with low expectations, might take some of the pressure off of them. 

And I know this will be likely an unpopular take but I'd be ok with no spring overseas trip for a few years. It's a fantastic opportunity for the team and the players but it also strikes me as a huge distraction. Not up to me and again, I think it's an amazing opportunity for these young men, so it's not a huge issue for me but I'm not sure it helps. 

I'll always be a fan, win or lose. Go Blue! Beat Louisville!

lhglrkwg

December 3rd, 2019 at 11:44 AM ^

I can save everyone time and type out the summer hyper right now

"Dylan is looking great and the whole staff expects him to be even better than Shea. Tom Brady Jr is what they're calling him. Milton is right behind him. 1A and 1B again"

"The staff believes they have 5-6 All-Americans on defense. Will be Brown's best yet"

"The offense is really humming. Everyone saying this will be the best Michigan offense ever assembled"

Then we'll look like doo doo in the Washington game

realblue

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:10 AM ^

Everybody here (aside from the loser trolls) will still be rooting for M next year. That's not news. 

It just sucks to be so much worse than the thing you hate and wanna beat the most. 

Mr Grainger

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:11 AM ^

Lots of reasons for optimism next year. I love this program so much I hate them.

Michigan should be 11-0 or 10-1 before playing OSU, a game where we will again be underdogs. But hey, the Red Sox eventually beat the Yankees.

maize-blue

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:11 AM ^

Offense could be better depending on how Milton or McCaffrey perform. Shea has really come on down the stretch so they would have to really step up. I think having some offensive scheme stability will be the biggest benefit for the team.

Defense, I would expect to be about the same. CB's and LB's possibly thw biggest question marks. Hopefully the young DT's are good.

I predict a 9-3 or 10-2 record.

evenyoubrutus

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:12 AM ^

There's plenty of reason to be optimistic. Offense is fully weaponized and may be more prolific than the second half of this year. I believe there is a very good chance that McCaffrey has better upside than Shea and it will show this year (he'll be the same year as Shea but was but with a whole season of Gattis under his belt and better wheels).

I think the defensive line is going to be incredibly good and deep, similar to the 2016 team. Say what you want about Don Brown but he's done an outstanding job of finding sleeper recruits who turned into great players, and there's a whole bunch of guys who could turn out to be big time contributors next year (Welschof, Ojabo, to name a couple).

bighouse1979

December 3rd, 2019 at 9:16 AM ^

I am almost certain some of these players will not be back.

 

Christian Turner  Transfer

Nico  Gone NFL

Tarik Balck  -  Transfer

DPJ   maybe 50/50 I think he's gone  NFL

Kwity  almost certain gone NFL

Josh Uche - Gone  NFL

Kemp-  50/50   We always assume these guys want 5 years many don't

Ruiz  70/30 gone NFL

Milton 50/50   If he's not the starter after spring ball I can see him leaving.  How long do you expect him to wait?  

Australopithecus

December 3rd, 2019 at 11:45 AM ^

Yikes. I know you have some insight into the program--are these all based on stuff you've heard or is this mostly speculation?

DPJ - Serious about academics, I know some of his old labmates. I could see him back for a final year.

Nico - Good as gone.

Tarik - Why would he transfer and have to sit a year at this point? With Nico out, he'll be WR #3.

Uche - Gone

Kemp - I think we see another year. Unlikely to succeed in the NFL at this point.

Ruiz - 50/50

Milton - I think we're more likely to see him grad transfer rather than sit an extra year. Better to be the backup than not play at all for a year.

 

bighouse1979

December 3rd, 2019 at 2:52 PM ^

I feel pretty good about my predictions, I do some insight into things that most don't.  Always keep in mind that these are young men who make very fluid decisions.  I can guarantee you that we all think that 5 years of Michigan football sounds great, the student-athletes don't all feel that same way.  

Milton is the wild card here, I just have a hard time believing he is going to sit behind Dylan forever.  I know we all say " but your one play away"  the kids who bust their ass every day don't always see it that way.  

There were also many defensive players mentioned earlier that I don't ever see contributing which is very scary for our depth.