Why doesn't OSU ever play ND?
Watching The Game 2006 Remembered on BTN and seeing an add for the book Natural Enemies on Twitter, about the ND/UM rivalry it occurred to me...why doesn't OSU ever play ND? I know they recently booked them down the road, but it seems like a natural fit for a rivalry. If UM and ND are natural enemies it seems logical that OSU would also be a natural enemy of ND.
I think UM and ND have the perception of being better schools than OSU, but if you look at blue blood programs and historical programs from the mid west, the 3 you'd come up with are UM, OSU, & ND. They are also all in the top 5 of all time wins. And, they are all national recruiters. ND takes a fair share of high level OH recruits. And, Indiana shares a border with both UM & OSU. I just found it interesting and had never considered it before or remember anyone talking about it.
August 27th, 2018 at 10:40 AM ^
They did, in bowl games in 2005 and 2015. Watch those games and it will occur to you why ND never schedules OSU.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:10 AM ^
I hear ya, but that's just recent history and these two programs have been winning lots of games for over a century. We had already played ND like 32 times prior to 2005.
August 28th, 2018 at 5:53 PM ^
Except that ND did schedule OSU.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:11 AM ^
Yeah, I mentioned this in my post. I'm more curious why they haven't historically played as they seem like natural fits for a rivalry.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:30 AM ^
Is ESPN gonna market it as "Misogyny Bowl"?
August 27th, 2018 at 10:41 AM ^
College Football Blue Bloods that excel on the field and off the field.
THEEEEE ohio fails the last point, unless of course you include their excellence in the tattoo parlor and cooler pooping space.
August 27th, 2018 at 12:55 PM ^
I don't know we can say ohio state's academic standards are still a joke.
I've heard Advanced Outdoor Defecation Solutions 201 will no longer allow coolers to be used for the lab portion of the class.
Basic Outdoor Defecation Solutions 101 still allows coolers for the lab.
August 27th, 2018 at 10:42 AM ^
Because along with all their other terrible traits, people from Ohio are also anti-Irish. Like the famous moment from Blazing Saddles, they have definitively stated "All right, we'll give some land to the ****** and the *******, but we don't want the IRISH!"
August 27th, 2018 at 10:43 AM ^
Didn't their former president make some tongue and check comment about Catholics/nd?
August 28th, 2018 at 11:02 PM ^
E Gordon G did make some comment about how they don't play "The Little Sisters of the Poor", if that's what you're thinking of...
August 27th, 2018 at 10:55 AM ^
But then after some chiding they said "Aw prairie shit! Everyone!"
August 27th, 2018 at 11:12 AM ^
Sounds like more ammunition for a rivalry to me.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:36 AM ^
i would like to extend a laurel, and hardy handshake to mgoblog's new.....clown?
August 27th, 2018 at 10:42 AM ^
Often times schools like to schedule other schools with like minded academics and ethics. I'll just leave it at that.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:13 AM ^
ND considers MSU a rival. IMO OSU would be a more natural rival for ND.
August 27th, 2018 at 12:58 PM ^
Often times schools like to schedule other schools with like minded academics and ethics.
Michigan has MSU, PSU, OSU and Maryland on the schedule and hopefully aren't like minded wrt ethics.
August 27th, 2018 at 10:42 AM ^
If you think we look down our noses at OSU, imagine ND. No way would those blue hairs allow those cretins in their stadium.
August 27th, 2018 at 10:48 AM ^
...and yet ND plays Miami (YTM).
Like a lot of football I think the tradition matters. Yeah you can create new traditions (PSU vs. MSU?) but they always end up a little lame. OSU has also been good enough in the recent cheating years that ND doesn't want to sign up for an almost certain loss.
August 27th, 2018 at 10:55 AM ^
Well yeah, I was mostly joking. The main reason is Notre Dame already plays a brutal schedule, has ACC obligations, and would likely lose the game. No incentive to sign up for a home-and-home that's a sure loss when it's not a traditional rivalry and you could just schedule a cupcake like Ball State to come to South Bend.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:04 AM ^
I think you and the good doctor are both correct. The bulk of ND's schedule always seemed to favor academically strong schools (at least prior to their ACC affiliation) and OSU would beat their asses most years.
It's a lose lose for the Irish.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:14 AM ^
...and yet ND plays Miami (YTM).
And MSU
August 27th, 2018 at 11:17 AM ^
Like WestQuad said, MSU-ND is a traditional rivalry. I always thought the MSU rivalry was more important to them than our rivalry.
August 27th, 2018 at 2:08 PM ^
I do too, but if you look at history OSU makes more sense to me, just not sure why it never panned out.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:23 AM ^
The U is comparable to B1G schools academic-wise.
August 27th, 2018 at 1:38 PM ^
I was shocked when I learned this.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:18 AM ^
Yeah you can create new traditions (PSU vs. MSU?) but they always end up a little lame. OSU has also been good enough in the recent cheating years that ND doesn't want to sign up for an almost certain loss.
I hear ya, but again that's recent history. These two programs have been successful for over a century. The 70's in particular seemed like a prime time for both programs to start playing.
August 27th, 2018 at 12:38 PM ^
Hopefully in light of recent events the Michigan fanbase gets a hearty dose of admiration from college football fans all over the country. The OSU wrath is toxic and it is directed at Michigan with laser focus every year and we have to put up with that shit. Every school has their rivals, but for ours we take on the Evil Empire.
August 27th, 2018 at 10:46 AM ^
Gene Smith, AD at OSU said in an interview a few years back that he calls ND every single year and asks to schedule them, implying OSU makes the effort to ask.
August 27th, 2018 at 10:47 AM ^
They'd be a perfect fit. Notre Dame practically invented the football cover-up.
August 27th, 2018 at 10:51 AM ^
Like this cover-up/robe?
Or this one?
August 27th, 2018 at 11:51 AM ^
I had no idea that DameFan1 (remember him, guys?) was marketing his housecoat to the general public? Like everything else on his site, he'll take it down after ND's first loss and then post a video of himself crying and then not sell another one until December.
August 27th, 2018 at 10:49 AM ^
ND's schedule has always been difficult enough and has so many of their games are an annual matchup...it probably never made sense to add a top-10 team to their agenda.
August 27th, 2018 at 10:52 AM ^
As for EVER play them? I dunno. They have the ability to add teams to their schedule pretty easily from year to year since they are Independent. In the past they had the flexibility to probably do so a few times at the very minimum.
As for why it's not a common match up now, that's probably because ND has so many built in rivalries/yearly match ups that shoehorning in OSU would be difficult/make their schedule year in and year out horrible.
They play Stanford, Navy, and USC practically every year (or actually every year). Now that they've kind of sort of joined the ACC they also have to play 5ish ACC teams a year. That's 8 games locked in between the 3 yearly match ups plus the ACC games. So now they have 4 games open but another like 5 programs that they rotate playing over the years between MSU, Purdue, Michigan and Army. So any given year they could get a murder's row schedule that adding OSU to would be really difficult.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:20 AM ^
So now they have 4 games open but another like 5 programs that they rotate playing over the years between MSU, Purdue, Michigan and Army.
All of those make sense except one...MSU. OSU seems like a much better natural fit and rivalry for ND than MSU does.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:41 AM ^
Except it doesn't.
ND and MSU have played like 80 some times. ND and OSU might have seemed like a better fit from 1967 to 2007 because MSU was utterly terrible, but for the first 20 or so match ups between them, they were both Independent schools that Michigan basically had control over when it came to conference affiliation (ND less so since they seemed to not want to join the Big Ten). That and the whole "Game of the Century" thing. They aren't on the same level anywhere outside of "schools that hate Michigan for certain reasons so they played each other instead".
ND - Michigan is a rivalry because of the early 1900s and their common level of play and national importance. OSU is basically another Michigan to ND when it comes to those characteristics, except Michigan got to it first and has other commonalities (academics, national prestige as an institution, etc.
August 27th, 2018 at 10:55 AM ^
Cause they've been playing Oklahoma & Virginia Tech the last four years in home and home series and are smart enough to know that scheduling a murders row of OOC games to go along with the B1G East schedule would be beyond stupid.
FWIW the last four years our toughest OOC games were: Florida, Colorado, Utah and Notre Dame so it's not like it's that much different for us.
One tough OOC game only please.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:02 AM ^
I abhor this line of thinking.
Michigan should be ashamed of itself for its recent scheduling, dating all the way back to the late Carr years. Scheduling easy wins is the coward's way out. Leave it for the SEC and Big 12.
In '97, Michigan played Notre Dame, Baylor, and Colorado. No MAC fodder, and 2 of the 3 were ranked. That season seemed to go OK.
Leave the cupcakes for the Food Network.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:11 AM ^
The 9-game conference schedule changed the math. Having enough home games per season is as much a factor as the level of competition. Most good Power 5 teams aren't going to take a one-off game, and Michigan can't afford to do multiple home-and-homes per season, especially in odd years when we have 5 conference road games.
I think Michigan keeps the Arkansas and Virginia Tech games if we had not moved to nine conference games.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:31 AM ^
The fact that major colleges get to benefit from an unbalanced schedule is another travesty. I'd love to see an announcement that you must play 6 road / true neutral games in a season to be eligible for the playoff. Suddenly, I don't think you'd hear as many arguments about how important it is to the budget to have seven home games.
August 27th, 2018 at 9:36 PM ^
No, what you'd hear is how fucked up that rule was. Major college football is expensive, and only a handful of teams could afford to give up a home game as you so blithely propose.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:11 AM ^
And then lose one of those OOC games by 2 points and miss the playoffs.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:23 AM ^
Which merely points out how bad a four-team playoff is for the sport. They should either get rid of the playoff or expand it significantly.
Early-season college basketball has many more marquee matchups than early-season college football, because losing a game in basketball isn't a death knell for the season.
The ridiculous focus on perfection in college football, combined with each school's ability to create their own schedule, gives us unwatchable dreck like Arkansas State, Louisiana Lafayette, and the Citadel (in November!) at Alabama.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:23 AM ^
And I equally abhor the lunacy of thinking we have to prove how tough we are by playing an insanely difficult schedule year in and year out. We have the hardest schedule in the country this year and it's not even CLOSE to #2. Matter of fact we could remove Notre Dame from our schedule and we'd STILL have the hardest schedule in the country - is that difficult enough for you?
There's a reason the teams still playing the second week of January play nobody OOC - it's cause they are smart enough to realize the committee awards no bonus points for SOS and looks at wins and wins alone - and the B1G east schedule is tough enough, thank you, without layering in more potential losses on top of it.
I just dont understand why this concept is so fucking hard for some people to understand. It's like you guys think going 9-3 (with losses to really, really good teams!!!) is somehow "better" than going 11-1, making the final four and taking our chances there.
You find glory in proving to the world how tough we are? Have at it - I want Michigan to win the B1G, make the final four and win a National Championship.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:28 AM ^
I would much rather be 9-3 against a good schedule than 11-1 against Alabama's schedule, yes.
The point of the endeavor is not (necessarily) to win. The point is to compete. Focus too much on winning and you get Nick Saban's Medical Redshirt Factory and the Big Ten East (non-Michigan edition).
From a big-picture perspective, you have to ask yourself why it is that the University of Michigan should sponsor athletics in the first place. At one time, it was because sports were thought to build character in young men; sportsmanship and fair play were considered values that we wanted to instill. And that means gamely facing a challenge and growing from it, not trying to weasel your way to success.
One has to wonder what today's football players are learning, exactly.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:37 AM ^
"The point of the endeavor is not (necessarily) to win"
Have you ever even heard The Victors?
Fucks' wrong with you?
August 27th, 2018 at 11:58 AM ^
:-) That's not to say that one doesn't celebrate winning. But not winning at all costs.
August 27th, 2018 at 11:42 AM ^
I'd be curious to know exactly what years of Michigan football you are referencing when you describe it today as:
"And that means gamely facing a challenge and growing from it, not trying to weasel your way to success"
Cause it wasnt the Bo years. He scheduled absolutely nobody OOC cause he wanted to win the B1G every year. But hey, by your lofty way of thinking Bo was just trying to weasel his way to a Big 10 title and not prove to the rest of the NCAA just how tough he was.
Hey what did that old guy know anyways. Only won the Big Ten 10 times in his 20 years. Not like today with our rockem-sockem, who's the toughest son-of-a-bitch in this bar anyways, type schedule. Now we win the B1G every 15-20 years or so - just like fucking Purdue.