Who sits once Livers returns?
With Livers the starting 5 has been: Simpson, Brooks, Wagner, Livers, Teske
Without Livers: Simpson, Brooks. Wagner, Johns, Teske.
At Livers return may I suggest Livers over Wagner with Wagner becoming the 6th man. Can't see sitting Johns as well as he is playing.
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:36 PM ^
I expect the starting lineup to be the same. I could see Wagner being the "nominal starter" with Johns just getting more minutes, but Wagner hasn't been some disaster either.
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:40 PM ^
The short answer is Johns in terms of who starts. However, everyone not named Simpson or Teske will play fewer minutes as Johns deserves to play. Should get the starters plus Johns closer to a more reasonable 30 minutes per game. DDJ will sub for Brooks vs. a small lineup, Livers will play at the 3 with Johns at the 4, etc.
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:40 PM ^
Could be a situation like 2018. Livers was the "starter" but D-Rob got the "starter minutes."
As Robinson proved, having a great 6th man sometimes has more of a role than being the 5th man in the starting 5.
February 4th, 2020 at 9:34 AM ^
This is not a problem. We will start 6 players. The refs won't notice and we will win lots of games.
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:42 PM ^
Simpson
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:43 PM ^
Could argue Johns and Wagner have played their best in the last 2 games. If any switch is made, I would have Brooks come off the bench and start Z, Wagner, Livers, Johns and Teske. With DDJ and Davis completing the 8-man rotation.
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:56 PM ^
Wagner at the two is the new when is Beilein going to play two bigs/use the post.
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:03 PM ^
Punctuation is your friend.
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:11 PM ^
Is this to me? What's my mistake so I can learn something?
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:20 PM ^
Wagner at the two is the new “when is Beilein going to play two bigs/use the post.“
I think this is what you mean but without the quotations it is almost illegible.
there, you learned something
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:28 PM ^
Thanks. Next time.
February 3rd, 2020 at 4:00 PM ^
It was pretty obvious so don't worry about the grammar police. I totally agree with the sentiment too. Wagner isn't going to be starting at the two and I'd be shocked if he played a minute there barring an injury to Brooks or DDJ.
February 3rd, 2020 at 4:58 PM ^
Wasn't Brooks the #1 star vs Nebraska? He played well vs Rutgers too.
I can't see benching him now and using Wagner in a new position. I expect a 3 man rotation at the 1 and 2, with DDJ hopefully earning a few more minutes. A 3 man rotation at the 3 and 4, with all 3 getting a good share of time. The same rotation at center, with Johns available if really needed.
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:44 PM ^
I think it's too early to make any kind of prediction. Johns has had two really good games. If that continues, and his trajectory continues to out-pace Wagner, until Livers comes back, then I would agree with your take.
Hell, Livers may be the 6th man for a few games until he gets his conditioning back, for that matter. After that, it will depend on who is the most consistent for the longer period.
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:44 PM ^
They are most likely going back to the old starting lineup...if they are making changes, it would be sitting Brooks, not Wagner.
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:41 PM ^
They're not gonna start Wagner at the 2. No chance. He'll still start at the three, Johns will come off the bench and they'll have a normal rotation on the wing.
February 3rd, 2020 at 4:26 PM ^
You could put Livers at the two instead of Wagner. Livers is basically a jumbo shooting guard already. The defensive responsibilities in Juwan's system are very similar outside of point and center. Put your best guys on the court.
February 3rd, 2020 at 5:47 PM ^
Even if it made sense to put your best players on the floor (which it doesn't necessarily, because matchups and skill sets that fit together matter), Wagner is not a better player than Brooks right now.
So the argument for fifth best player on the team goes back to Johns and Wagner (when including Livers). I like what we've seen from Johns in the last couple games but I'm not sure he's cracked top 5 yet.
As to the idea of playing Livers at the two, maybe. He's probably a good enough perimeter defender to be able to stay in front of two guards, I'm not sure Juwan would want him handling the ball in the back court against those trap zone presses that a lot of teams run. He'd probably be fine, but dunno.
The other problem is that Livers / Wagner / Johns are Michigan's only playable wings. If you have Livers or any of them at the two, there is no backup for the other two guys and then you have a log jam at the two (with Brooks and DDJ on the bench). So you're going to bring in Brooks for one of them as the first substitution and then rotate through such that all four of Brooks / Livers / Wagner / Johns are going to play between 25 and 35 minutes, anyway.
February 4th, 2020 at 12:58 AM ^
I got grief for this suggestion recently. I tell you what, if a 1 or 2 guard was going off and Simpson wasnt getting it done Id be fine seeing Livers give it a shot. He is quick, lengthy, and can jump. Any player not a traditional 5 that was going off Id find a way to put Livers on him. We run 3 guards out there but are hesitant on 4 large bodies? Livers has great ball control and passing. Btw you pass out of presses. Dribbling is what gets you in trouble.
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:52 PM ^
Johns has been great, but I see no reason not to go back to the old lineup. Johns will get more minutes than he did before Livers got injured, but Livers should get the nod at the four. As a wing who can shoot, we need Wagner in the starting lineup.
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:45 PM ^
I mean, Wagner is shooting 29% from three, which is worse than Johns and frankly pretty bad. Soooo, that argument kind of doesn't work yet since sitting Wagner and putting Livers at the three and Johns at the four arguably gives Michigan a better shooting lineup.
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:07 PM ^
Feel bad for how many of his shots are halfway down ! I think we need to run more action in mid range so he can get to the glass . Yes he has missed some layups , but he could get to the line a lot more ! The kid has so much potential !
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:58 PM ^
Nunez.
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:56 PM ^
BOOM goes the dynamite!
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:24 PM ^
Is Livers even going to return? When was the last time a reinjury took less time to recover from than the original injury? I don't think we see him until mid-late March, if at all.
February 4th, 2020 at 6:43 AM ^
Exactly what I was going to say. I don't think any of us need to hold our breath about his return. I'm not expecting it until at least the B1G tourney.
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:42 PM ^
This would be a nice problem to have but unfortunately I do not think he is coming back soon. According to his teammate, DDJ, it is the same injury, just not as bad, whatever that means!
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:52 PM ^
I think Livers will start and Johns will come off the bench but Howard will have the luxury of more aggressive substituting than he does now. Against Rutgers, Simpson, Brooks, Wagner and Johns each logged 38 minutes. Teske would have logged more than 28 minutes but for foul trouble. If Livers returns, each of the starters (other than Simpson) can get more rest. Depending on the opponent, you may see lineups with Teske and Davis on the bench. I think DDJ and Davis will see fewer minutes and Castleton and Nunez will become bench fixtures. Bajema already has been relegated to the pine.
We can only hope he can come back.
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:54 PM ^
Shouldn't this be titled If Livers returns?
Has some imminent return date been announced?
And will the next "return" last longer than the last one?
February 3rd, 2020 at 5:58 PM ^
100% this. I had a grade 2 groin strain back in college and I was never beyond 80-ish percent speed/explosive until about 2 months after the season ended. The hip adductors simply have too much responsibility when it comes to explosive movement to be able to heal fully without a full shut-down.
It will feel fine until you try to take it to the proverbial "110%" a la what Livers did going for that dunk. At this point, I hope he rehabs until the BTT/NCAAs - we could eke in as a 7-10 seed and be a headache for anyone in the 2nd round with a full-go Livers.
February 3rd, 2020 at 4:03 PM ^
Johns, Wagner and Brooks all played 38 minutes against Rutgers. The effect of Livers coming back will primarily just knock Wagner and Johns down to the high 20s. And I predict some of those Johns minutes will come at the five. When M is playing a center that isn't a burly post-only, they'll roll with Johns ahead of Davis.
February 3rd, 2020 at 4:39 PM ^
Wagner isn't a 2. Wagner isn't going to start at the 2. Wagner isn't going to play at the 2.
You do not want Wagner as one of your primary ball handlers. Damn near every time Wagner brings the ball up the court it ends in a turnover. Brooks has been our best perimeter defender all year. With Livers out he is our best outside shooter as well. Brooks can bring the ball up and initiate the offense. Brooks is a solid player who isn't getting benched this season.
February 3rd, 2020 at 4:51 PM ^
Johns and wagner have both been playing at a high level. Wagner was the big ten freshman of the week
February 3rd, 2020 at 5:47 PM ^
Nunez
February 3rd, 2020 at 6:05 PM ^
Wagner at the 2 is something that only would work in nba2k.
February 3rd, 2020 at 6:36 PM ^
I agree Wagner needs to sit. Livers can be great at the 3 and Franz would be better off the bench. His defense and rebounding are horrible. I hope Livers is back real soon.
February 3rd, 2020 at 7:43 PM ^
Sit Wagner he has been terrible. Don’t know how he was name freshman of the week.
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:25 PM ^
Last 5 for Wagner 12.8 ppg and 1 terrible game ! Pretty solid if you ask me
10 pts 6 reb 2 asts 50 % shooting
18 pts 8 reb 3 stls 53.3 % shooting
12 pts 8 reb 1 blks 36 % shooting
6 pts 6 reb 2 steals 11 % shooting
18 pts 5 reb 4 ast 57 % shooting
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:09 PM ^
Before Livers got hurt , our Bench has some great outings ! 30-35 point nights . Johns , DDJ , and Davis is all we need . Colin if we get in foul trouble and noway we need Nunez out there with that defensive liability .
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:36 PM ^
No one. The best thing Howard did against Rutgers was going to a tighter, mainly 6 man rotation. If Johns, Jr. can play confident they can play pretty well going 7-8 deep.
February 4th, 2020 at 6:11 AM ^
The answer, of course, is Cole Bajema.
February 4th, 2020 at 6:54 AM ^
1- Simpson / DDJ 32/8
2- Brooks / DDJ. 30/10
3- Wagner / Livers 28/12
4- Livers / Johns. 20/20
5- Teske / Davis 30/10
Total minutes-
1- Livers 32
1. Simpson 32
3. Teske. 30
3. Brooks. 30
5. Wagner. 28
6. Johns. 20
7. DDJ. 18
8. Davis 10