What Would You Do If There Were a Scandal at Michigan?
Slow day for content on the main page and reading through the "More Bad News for Ohio State..." thread got me thinking:
What would you do if there were a major scandal, especially as it relates to sexual assault/abuse at Michigan?
Like I suspect many of you feel, I'm outraged by what happened at PSU and MSU. As was noted in the discussion on the OSU article today, it sounds like OSU ultimately worked to address the problems at the SCE. But PSU and MSU seem to be different based on what I understand. The institutions not only didn't stop the atrocities, in many ways they assisted in enabling and later covering them up. Yet the fan bases for those schools still support the schools, often citing the fact that "the current players and coaches didn't commit the crimes" or something like that.
So what would cause you to break your allegiance to the school? What would you do? Stop donating? Stop attending games? Stop buying tickets? Tear up your diploma? I have a hard time believing I could support MSU after what happened, but I know plenty of good people who still do -- tribal loyalty and all that...
I'm also interested in this topic (specifically the OSU story) because of the Title IX elements and implications. As the father of a rising Senior daughter at Northwestern and a rising Freshman daughter at U of M, I'm *terrified* of what can happen to a young woman as she's on her own effectively for the first time. As the father of a 14 year old son, I'm also terrified about an environment that judges the accused before all the facts are understood (think Duke Lacrosse...).
I'm really not sure what the universities should be doing to make college a safe place for personal, athletic, and academic growth.
Very interested to hear others' views on these topics.
You already said that. The fact that you doubled down on it with out adding anything of substance is now making me skeptical.
The Gibbons incident:
The young lady backed off her accusation (probably due to threats) and so according to the rules in place in 2009, that closed the matter. New more stringent and proactive rules about campus rape came into play in 2013 and Hoke/Brandon followed the new rules and he was expelled. I assume Coach Hoke "lied" about the reason because it wasn't a fait accompli at the time and he didn't want to speak out of turn so to speak.
My only issue with how it was handled maybe the Michigan coaches should've looked a little harder at the time of the incident and made their own determination. Harbaugh seems to have no problem kicking guys off for "violation of team rules."
It depends on what the current administration does. If they accept responsibility, clean the act, get rid off the culprits and implement solid procedures to avoid such things from happening, well and good. No change. If not, I will express my displeasure in writing. I can't vote in Michigan. Otherwise I would do that. Not following the sports is not an option for me but I will tone down my arrogance.
Go about the rest of my day?
It depends entirely on how things are handled. If there's an open, independent investigation and everyone involved in the scandal is fired or disciplined appropriately, I wouldn't have much of a reaction at all. 99.99% of the university isn't involved in your typical scandal, even the big ones, so as long as those involved are punished, it makes no sense to punish everyone else by continuing to withhold money or support.
On the other hand if they go full MSU (never go full MSU) and try to circle the wagons and stonewall attempts at transparency, then yeah, I absolutely would protest and boycott.
Luckily Michigan would never do something on that kind of level. But if it came to OSU/PSU/MSU levels, I’d have a hard time supporting the university in any way.
I'd go buy a burger, fries, and beer at a bar.
If there's one thing you can count on... it's that human beings will make bad decisions... just like the OP deciding to share this post with the rest of us.
To answer the question:
Most people need to grow up and take responsibility for their own safety, stop playing the "victim" and learn how to take care of yourself. Expecting other people to come to your rescue and be your champion/advocate is ridiculous and counter productive for society; part of the reason we have to legislate to the lowest common denominator.
I was at Hopkins in inner city Baltimore...we walked in pairs, constantly watching around us etc. Don't put yourself in the position of allowing something bad to happen. I've also lived in LA, and in North Las Vegas (Bloods and Crypts etc.) You can avoid trouble if you keep your mouth shut, and are aware of your surroundings.
Furthermore, and more pertinent to your situation if your daughters were sheltered... well, ya f'd up dad. This is one of the reasons my parents put myself and my brother in public instead of private schools. They wanted us to deal with those pressures of sex/drugs/crime at an early age and help us make the right decisions, so we had the personal constitution and situational awareness to do it later in life. At this point dad, if your daughters don't know their boundaries and things that should/shouldn't be happening in a University setting... well they're already a lost cause.
Holy victim blaming, batman.
Right on brother, those kids at Penn State should have been more proactive.
That doesn't answer the question in any way.
It answers a completely different question, really poorly, but not the question the OP posed.
wow, you win dickhead of the day.
Hey Billy Badass, thanks for the advice. Let me guess, you carry a "tactical" pen.
absolute trash. whatever your parents did that you are so proud of, they didn't help you do the very basic thing of developing empathy for others.
I do have empathy... but not for people who put themselves in a position to be a victim. Gonna take heat for this but I really don't give a f'*ck...
Example: I live in a nice community in Chapel Hill, was at the clubhouse late in the evening because it's just left open (people here are that naive'). So it's open until 11pm, I'm walking out of the conference room after relaxing and reading a book. I see a young girl (teens) and two boys they were either drunk or doped up, stumbling all over etc. they were gettin' a little frisky with each other.
First problem, where's the parents of these teens? You've got a doped up girl, and two boys getting a little too close.
I stopped by the clubhouse for a workout the very next morning, and see the girl stumbling to get back on her bicycle, but didn't have the motor skills to even get on it. She looked clueless, maybe she was slipped a mickey or something who knows. The point is... don't be an idiot.
Don't play possum and be idiots, you know as well as I do the potential for a rape in that situation. Doesn't excuse the crime, but the fact that the girl put herself in that position means she doesn't make smart decisions. Has nothing to do with empathy, has everything to do with parenting.
So many snowflakes in summer time... love it.
I did answer his ultimate question regarding the safety of his COLLEGE AGED daughters. You can avoid trouble if you know how, and you're raised properly. Furthermore, I said nothing of Penn State and that situation, or anything else; those were adolescents, not kids who were approaching majority (not minors).
And holy hell... didn't any of your parents talk to you about your "special place", I mean seriously. That doesn't negate the grotesque crimes committed, but it does tell me that more parents need to have these difficult conversations with their children.
And the fact that this FATHER, came onto an MGOBLOG site asking if he should be concerned about his daughters and things that happen in their lives:
1) GO TALK TO YOUR DAUGHTERS (my god this isn't rocket science)
2) If you don't know how to talk to your daughters in such a way, there are counselors who can help
*But writing on MGOBLOG?!
Last note... DAD also talks about his fear for his son in a day and age when men are being falsely accused of rape. Well DAD... tell your son to get to know the women he's dating, and be careful about where he sticks his pecker; again common sense brah...
If people in MI are this naive and gullible damn, I need to move back up there and make millions... really need to take some of you back to Vegas with me and watch you get yourselves in all sorts of trouble, would be fun watching the snowflakes melt in a real city.
Usually, you the reason you have high esteem for a school is because you don't believe such a thing would occur.
It's the almost the same as asking... What you would do if your wife cheated on you? You made her your wife because you don't think she would [unless you're swingers(but then it wouldn't technically be cheating)] so there's no tangible way to know how you'd react.
The difference with the school scenario is it isn't the school that did the action, it's just where your allegiance lies. Remove the offenders, problem somewhat goes away.
The problems come in when they refuse to remove the offending people and despicably defend them.
I kicked the cheating bitch out, both times. (two different cheating bitches)
Important clarification. Appropriate response...depending on who they cheated with.
Some have been known to leave room for them to then cheat on the next guy back with them if the person wasn't mutually known and the cheating wasn't just a one night slip up and eventually developed into a relationship.
Best just to be done with them though. I imagine girlfriends are much less difficult than wives (alma mater).
Not much I could do. I’d be upset and hope the University takes necessary action to rectify the situation.
Depends on the scandal and what is actually proven. To be honest, when it comes to scandals at rival schools you look at them like a prosecutor while with your own you look at it like a defense attorney. I dont think we have been tested in that regard yet because Gibbons was an easy case to take a position on for various reasons.
As an aside, I'm a little tired of the paternalistic "girls are all potential victims, boys are falsely accused predators" talk that goes around these types of discussions. It's this same backwards mentality that allows abuses to occur to everyone involved.
That said, if Michigan had a terrible scandal AND tried to cover it up/not deal with it head on, then I'd be done supporting them in the meager ways I do. That doesn't seem to be in UM's DNA the way it may be at some other schools, mostly because the cult of Michigan doesn't seem as pronounced as at, say, PSU or MSU. Like, if what happened at MSU happened at UM I doubt they'd hire the equivalent of John Fucking Engler to be the interim president, seeing as they'd have more requirements than "not in jail alum".
As an aside, I'm a little tired of the paternalistic "girls are all potential victims, boys are falsely accused predators" talk that goes around these types of discussions. It's this same backwards mentality that allows abuses to occur to everyone involved.
I understand. I agree with you and that wasn't the point I was trying to make. Mostly the second part of my original post is related to the fact that as a parent, no matter how much I prepare my children, I'm always a little bit afraid. It can be a scary world out there and it sucks that institutions parents have relied on (the idea of in loco parentis or whatever it is) have failed so miserably in some cases.
Regarding the second paragraph of your post, I think you're right on.
I don't do scandals.
Nah, others just seem to catch deadly cases of "allergies" when in opposition.
I would simply hope they handled it correctly. But I suspect, being a scandal, that isn't the case.
Call a supervisor.
Blame Urban.
What kind of bullshit is this??
Depends on the University's reaction. If they seek transparency and the truth and punish everyone who is even remotely responsible, then I see my fandom being no different. But if the University were to circle the wagons like MSU did and claim there is nothing to see here, while also playing the victim, then I'll go cheer for my local FCS team or D3 or NAIA team.
Same as all the other B1G teams when they encounter a scandal; scream about how the media hates us and that there was nothing more the coach/players/administration could have done.
It would depend on the exact nature of what happened, how long it happened, whether it was covered up, what the school did to address the problem etc. It is just hard for me to imagine any of the people in charge at Michigan covering up the way they did at PSU and MSU.
Break my allegiance to the school? The "school" is not one particular year, or decade, or even generation of administration, it's a combined history of values to students and society generally.
my response would be mostly dictated by how the situation was handled. if it was revealed to be a cover-up of penn state or sparty proportions, then i'm out. i continue to believe that penn state should not have a football program. it is a fucking game, and this game was used as both the vehicle and the rationale for covering up child sexual abuse. few people understand the ramifications of being abused in this way as a child. the psychiatrist judith herman refers to child sexual abuse as "deliberate, unfathomable malice." for such atrocity to be sited within the context of a game is sickening.
however if we were to handle an atrocious situation in a way that supported the survivors, that provided true accountability, institutional change, and diligence in restorative justice, then i would have no problem continuing to support the team. the athletic department cannot control people, only how they respond to situations. therefore the response to the atrocity dictates everything for me.
I’ve been reading this blog daily since the Harbaugh search.
I can say with 100% certainty that’s this has been the worst OT season since that time.
I applaud the OP for correctly using the subjunctive mood in the thread title. As to the question asked, many of the responses are along what would also say, and that is the severity of the transgression, who was involved and for how long, and even more so the institutional response. Deflecting, covering up, protecting the perpretator? Yeah that would definitely piss me off, and I would not be afraid to speak up and let my displeasure be known and my support dwindle.
Fire Dave Brandon.
MVP, this is a terrific topic. I regularly wonder the same thing. Even if I tried to ignore the question, scandals at other universities keep it fresh.
My connections to the University—UM grad, former UM-Flint prof, fan of its academics and athletics, and donor—would make it hard to cut ties.
So, as others have pointed out, I trust that those in charge are good at their jobs, and would handle a problem well, get at the truth, support those who've been hurt, and deal fairly with those who created the problem.
If a problem is handled badly but it's a rare occurrence, I'd probably stay connected. Though we're mostly talking about games here, games that are totally made up and rarely prove what fans want them to prove, the tribal allegiance is strong.
But if a problem proves to have been long-standing and handled badly, covered up, lied about, re-harmed those harmed in the first place, I hope I'd have the character to step away, stop rooting and stop giving.
P.S. Congratulations, MVP, on your children learning to make their way in the world.
It's hard for me to say on a theoretical basis what I would do. I guess much would depend on the scope / pervasiveness of what happened, if anything ever did happen. I have a suspicion the discussion here, in such a scenario, would be relatively level-headed - relatively being the key word - in comparison to what I've seen in other fanbases, but then I could be way off in that prediction too.
Here's an interesting link to Michigan Scandals and dismissed athletes from MWolverine:
http://mwolverine.com/Scandals_Michigan.html
Justin Feagin and Boubacar Cissoko are even on it.
We've had a few scandals. Losing to App State. If that didn't rock you to your core, I don't know what will. Hiring Rich Rod, how dare them and to follow it up with Brady Hoke. Holy shit, 3 scandals back to back to back.
The difference, I hope, between a potential Michigan scandal and Penn State is PSU people denied it and continue to deny it happened outside of Sandusky. As much as I hate Penn State now, do I think the school should have been eliminated because of scandal? No.
But they got off light... and they didn't even serve the full punishment. PSU should have been kicked out of the conference too.
The bottom line is who wins the ball games, scandal or not.
What would you do if Michigan wins the national championship this season?
If it was paying the players type of scandal I'd expect better results and be a little pissed
I would be disappointed.
There are scandals at Michigan just like everywhere else. This blog just conveniently ignores them and deflects to MSU or Ohio State. Where the hell have you been?
August 1st, 2019 at 10:59 AM ^
Nothing approaching the scale of depravity at OSU, MSU or PSU.
Why do you post here, fake mike?