What makes a good coordinator?
So all the complaining about Don Brown, all the coaching turnover this time of year at places like Texas etc., what makes a good coordinator? X’s and O’s? In game adjustments? New ideas in an ever evolving sport? How many “good” coordinators are out there? Pep Hamilton was highly regarded yet wasn’t successful enough at Michigan. I listen to Al Borges on WTKA and he sounds like a wise man, yet nobody is banging down his door. So from where do our future genius coordinators come?
December 1st, 2019 at 7:55 PM ^
Somebody who puts players in a position to win. Who plays to their strengths.
it’s really that simple.
I think Gattis did that yesterday. I think Warriner did that.
on defense, We may as well have had an FCS defensive roster out there. Whatever a good coordinator does...is not that
December 1st, 2019 at 8:04 PM ^
The Turf Monster failed us
December 1st, 2019 at 8:17 PM ^
Agreed. Knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your players and coaches and adapting your schemes to optimize their individual skills is paramount. A good coordinator is an intelligent global thinker who knows how to attack in a variety of ways. They must have the ability and willingness to adjust on the fly on game day. Otherwise, they must be confident and have firm beliefs but are also willing to learn and adapt. What they cannot be is an insecure, know-it-all jerk who plays everything "my way or the highway".
That's my 2 cents worth...what I believe.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:02 PM ^
I just don't know what Brown could have done to overcome the fact that we had basically no defensive linemen (especially interior DL) who could win up front on run plays. I'm not necessarily defending Brown overall, but yesterday I don't know what another DC could have done to overcome the talent gap. I think the only answer to "what could a coordinator do at UM to be successful against OSU" ... is to recruit better. Much better.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:57 PM ^
Carlo Kemp is listed at 286. Michael Dwumfour is listed at 282. Both are not big enough. Bryan Mone was 344. Michigan needs interior D Linemen like Mone. Both Wisconsin and Ohio St O Linemen trucked the interior D Line of Michigan. That just can't happen if you want to have an elite team.
There were times yesterday that Kemp was on his back, pushed over by Ohio Sts O Line. Mone was never pushed like that. Here's videos of Mone against Ohio St. Never once does he get pushed downfield and blown over onto his back. Not once. I hope there's a transfer in next year the size of Mone. And recruits his size also. Seems like there should be one brought in every year, by transfer or recruit.
2016
2017
December 1st, 2019 at 10:29 PM ^
He could've thrown the 6-2 stack at them.
December 1st, 2019 at 8:02 PM ^
Agree with SugarShane: you do your job and get good results.
What's most infuriating about Brown is that, if you leave out OSU, he's done a darn good job here. But there's something about playing against the Buckeyes that brings out his weaknesses.
December 1st, 2019 at 8:34 PM ^
He did well against OSU in 2016. What changed? I think it's OSU that changed from a QB running spread to a power spread with good passing QBs. Brown's defense has not adapted to that change. It figures that we finally had the DC to defeat OSU's running spread and they changed it on us. They are always at least 1 step ahead of us.
December 1st, 2019 at 8:59 PM ^
You'll recall we also did well in 2017. The difference is good Defensive Tackles. I'm not one to criticize recruiting too much, but we've really dropped the ball on DT recruiting.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:00 PM ^
....I hear what you are saying, but they didn't change their system LAST WEEK!!! We had 20+ games to look at film and scheme things better AND were playing at home and still didn't!!!
On top of losing, one thing to lose by 3 - 10 points, but we got HUMILIATED TWICE. I know these are not hawt takes, but we are not closing the gap at all. We are their BITCH!!!
December 1st, 2019 at 9:10 PM ^
How do you scheme for lack of a true DT? I mean the caps really made your point clear, but I guess I just disagree.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:03 PM ^
What changed? Michigan defensive tackles (for the worse) and OSU QB's (for the better).
December 1st, 2019 at 9:08 PM ^
Im not the smartest guy, but i was saying all week if we can't stop dobbins, we're in trouble. The moment we bring help to stop him, bombs away. And guess what? That's exactly what played out. If my dumbass can know that, i would expect someone who gets paid to do that to know that too.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:33 PM ^
So the front couldn’t stop Dobbins and then he brought help and they bombed us. What would be your great coaching tip to Don?
December 1st, 2019 at 9:36 PM ^
Not just this week. We basically knew this would be a problem from the first quarter of the Wisconsin game.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:47 PM ^
Oh, you mean all they needed to be told was to stop Dobbins? Run the "shut down the run" play that is guaranteed to work, personnel be damned? And defensive backs, now remember, when we run the "shut down the run" play, they are going to throw it your way, so make sure you have complete and total blanket coverage at all times.
December 1st, 2019 at 8:07 PM ^
Defense to me is where star power reigns supreme. A good defensive coordinator is one who can recruit the Jimmy's and the Joe's, coach them up, (or maybe roid them up).
People point to the PSU-OSU game and wonder why we couldn't hold OSU to 28 points. Well, take a look at the PSU preview:
On a pure, unadjusted yards-per-carry basis this is the #1 rush defense in the country, a hair ahead of… ugh, Wisconsin.
And J.K. Dobbins put up 163 yards and 2 TDs against Wisconsin, another elite rush defense.
The reality that nobody here seems to be able to accept is that OSU will continue to have their way with our defense for the foreseeable future. The answer is to fight fire with fire, and ride #SpeedInSpace for the entire season. I didn't see any evidence that the OSU defense could stop us, either. Shae was 2 blunders away from 275 yards and 3 TDs IN THE FIRST HALF!
Let the offensive system gel for a couple years, and hopefully we'll have some useable DTs by that time. No reason why we can't win a 48-45 shoot out like Auburn did against Bama.
December 1st, 2019 at 8:13 PM ^
It's not just OSU. Elite football in recent years has been due to elite offense. The old adage "defense wins championships" is now exactly backwards. We can do marginally better on D, and that's not trivial, but if we ever get to 50/50 with OSU it will be because of offense and a big time QB (no offense Shea).
December 1st, 2019 at 8:18 PM ^
Exactly my take. If we lived in a fantasy world where the top teams faced each other in a 16-team playoff, the O/U's would be in the 70s.
December 1st, 2019 at 8:26 PM ^
I think Mazi Smith & Hinton start next year at 310 lbs + inside. The starting D line could be scary actually if the interior 4/5 stars pan out. Paye & Hutch could be the most well balanced DE duo in the Big Ten.
Throw is 3- SR (Jeter, Dwum, Kemp) for depth, and we should see a quick fix there.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:00 PM ^
I'd feel much more confident had either player got extended experience this year. Don Brown pieced together a [relatively] good defense with the upper classmen we had available, but at the expense of losing a year of playing experience for those two at the most critically deficient position on the roster.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:38 PM ^
The track record of this staff suggests that guys lower on the depth chart don't get as much playing time but do grow with years in the system. We've been told that DT is a very hard position to play without experience, because one wrong move and the play is over. I'm hopeful that at least one of those guys can emerge into a plus B1G DT by next year, and maybe both.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:34 PM ^
In the garbage time snaps that Hinton got earlier in the year, he looked very sub-par. When, exactly, do you propose that we should have risked extended snaps with those guys (beyond the snaps they received)? There weren't too many games when even DCaf was able to play.
December 2nd, 2019 at 1:47 AM ^
What would they be risking? Every game before the OSU game is expendable. So...any of those.
December 1st, 2019 at 11:56 PM ^
Bama:
- Was missing their Heisman finalist QB
- Had tons of injuries in their front 7
- Threw 2 pick sixes, including one at the goal line which went off the RB's back
- Doinked the game-tying field goal
Let me know when this many things go in our favor in The Game. Bama outgained Auburn by 200 yards and had a 94% post-game win probability. You ain't never gonna catch Michigan getting that kind of luck vs OSU
December 2nd, 2019 at 1:48 AM ^
Auburn has won 4 times in the last decade.
December 1st, 2019 at 8:09 PM ^
5 star recruits.
December 1st, 2019 at 8:15 PM ^
It really is simple on why Dork Brown is a failure. He cares about sexy TFLs. But half the big ten is made up of power running teams who are not going to give up many TFLs. 4 big linemen, classic zone. Make the QB beat you for those games. Sure some trickery about that and you are even smarter. But not playing the 2 big freshmen Dline all year in all of our blowouts, got them no experience. Then yesterday Chris Hinton plays about 80 % of snaps???? Huh, why wasn’t he playing 80 % the whole year as prep? Mettelus in a classic zone not understanding that “ nobody gets behind you” instead doing a Dork special, go forward and pick it off..... just give me someone who can switch between spread and power and especially power!!!!
December 1st, 2019 at 8:32 PM ^
Your complaint about not playing the young talent early so they learn firsthand what they need to learn is a major systemic problem for Michigan. It may seem counter intuitive but I believe there is too much deference being placed upon practice success-and not enough attention to the glimmers of potential that are shown-especially toward the younger players. When the coaches see talent peaking through they need to jump on those little wagons and see what is there in real time. Here I believe the more veteran regulars are allowed to get too comfortable and safe. Coach Harbaugh's claims of meritocracy ring hollow to me and I cannot imagine that they do to many players as well. This can be very damaging to both individual players and the team.
December 2nd, 2019 at 1:03 AM ^
The young talent upfront dont get enough game reps. They rather throw Glasgow at dt in goaline situations. The D-line never rotates more than 5 players. I think Mcgrone is a top nfl prospect and he would of never got meaningful run if it wasn't for an injury. The starting d was always in until like 5 min left in the 4th during blowouts.
December 1st, 2019 at 8:35 PM ^
a good OC / DC has a vision (or certain guiding principles), they have a willingness and ability to adapt, and they can gain buy in of players. they find ways to marry scheme to what players do best, then get players to execute.
basically the old line "puts players in best position to succeed" adequately summarizes. need to find ways for the players to play fast and execute your calls. its not about what a coach knows, its about what they can reliably teach to student athletes given time constraints and everything else. also obviously recruit the best possible athletes.
hes far from perfect but i dont think they can do better than brown right now
December 1st, 2019 at 8:53 PM ^
I bet the fan bases of Ole Miss, BC, Purdue, Indiana, and 115 other D1 football teams would love to win only 9-10 games annually as UM does.
December 1st, 2019 at 8:57 PM ^
Ok I’ll play. Let’s lower expectations. With that the athletic department needs to lower ticket prices. Harbaugh should also give back a chunk of his salary too.
December 1st, 2019 at 8:59 PM ^
Michigan Football is no longer about winning. It’s all about hype and $. We are now Leaders and Best in name only.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:11 PM ^
Not sure what you mean by Michigan Football no longer about winning. What do you want them, the university, the coaches to do?
December 1st, 2019 at 10:06 PM ^
Wait. So we are about losing?
December 1st, 2019 at 10:38 PM ^
Oh for the love of God. Get a grip and a little perspective.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:03 PM ^
Not really an answer to your question but Michigan needs a DC that creates turnovers! This game has become a game that you need to score 40 points to beat a top team. I think its time to stop worrying about total yardage and focus solely on getting extra possessions! Don Brown Defense's shut down the week but cant hang with the big dogs!
December 1st, 2019 at 9:12 PM ^
What makes a good coordinator?
On offense: Scores a lot of points, like say 40-50
On defense: Gives up not so many points, like say less than 40
Combo is a winning formula - for this advice, pay me my money!
December 1st, 2019 at 9:20 PM ^
Id take charlie Strong and his recruiting over what we had yesterday.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:21 PM ^
Talent? Everyone thought Brown was better than GMatt, now all of a sudden GMatt looks great because he had more talent. What would Brown look like at OSU?
December 1st, 2019 at 10:07 PM ^
I don’t want to think about that. Disgustingly good.
December 1st, 2019 at 9:54 PM ^
The question is, what makes a good coordinator? And we'll specify "in college," since that's a bit of a different job than the NFL.
The answer: A combination of good schemes (which incorporates both the basics of gameplan and adjustments, which are inextricable from gameplanning and play design) and the ability to teach one's players to execute those schemes. This is an important issue in college, where practice time is limited. Al Borges was a reasonably smart coordinator who had good ideas (his opening scripts were always interesting and productive) but who wasn't good at getting his players to execute plays that required a lot of things to go right at once, for example.
We have a pretty good idea of what went wrong in 18 against OSU; Michigan's man-heavy scheme was picked apart by Dwayne Haskins as the DL was completely dominated. Michigan didn't have a great repertoire of zone defenses to counter the mesh routes (though they did try! Haskins threw a TD pass that shredded a garden-variety zone defense that wasn't run very well) and in any case needed blitzes to try to get pressure, which again resulted in man defenses that Haskins shredded.
Then Devin Bush was knocked out and things actually got worse.
This year the basic schematic issue which all other problems flowed from was an inability to stop the running game up front. I can't be the only one who saw the first couple of runs from JK Dobbins go for 8+ yards and knew that it was going to be a long day on defense. Michigan did, in fact, try to adjust to take away his running room inside, and the result was a series of deadly cutback runs that broke contain as edge defenders like Khaleke Hudson tried to pinch away the space Dobbins was running through. Once the running game's dominance was established, Fields had a fine time locating open receivers.
So, what was the schematic issue? The problem in 18 was two-fold: DL failure and a lack of zone defense counters to take away the man-beaters that were available when the DL couldn't get home. The schematic issue this year appears to be almost entirely a DL issue.
...And there we see a problem that is, in my opinion, bigger than Don Brown. Elite teams almost invariably have elite DLs. Alabama? Clemson? High NFL draft picks everywhere. Oregon played in two national title games, and the DLs they faced (Auburn and OSU) were elite and absolutely throttled them.
Michigan had elite DEs last year, but the DTs were meh, and that was exposed against OSU. The line was only good this year (Brian spoke more highly of it in UFRs than his grading really warranted--few negative grades, yes, but little in the way of game-changing playmaking from guys that weren't Uche).
It's not a coincidence that in 2016, with NFL talent all over the DL, that Brown's defense had its best game against OSU, even with non-viper LBs that were meh.
December 1st, 2019 at 10:11 PM ^
Wish you could instill your thoughts into everyone. This sums it up. I guarantee if you if one were to get one-on-one and a few Bourbon/tequila shots in Brown/Harbaugh they would tell us the primary issue(s) were/stem from what you type of. They'll never say it as to not speak ill of the guys on the roster but unfortunately they just aren't guys that get the job done against a Wisconsin-type run game or a Death Star Ohio St. offense.
It isn't about "creating turnovers", it isn't about ignoring zone defense, it isn't about being stubborn...the issues aren't the cheap talking points people have created on their Lazboys. It's all in your post Stephen. Does the lack of these caliber DTs come down to coaching and the coordinator?! Sure? I guess? But the teams you mention who do have a plethora of these players are programs that we seem to...not be (whoever reads this, knows what I mean). We hit a 2 year period - hopefully that's all - where this particular issue reared it's ugly head and we paid for it!
December 1st, 2019 at 11:04 PM ^
These are great points. I'll add a couple more:
1) Attention to detail. To me, this is what separates the most effective professionals in any field from the rest. Military, education, business, and coaching especially. I find Urban Meyer smarmy as hell, but I love to hear him talk football scheme and drills. The dude has exceptional attention to detail and he communicates and reinforces those details to his audience very well. I assume that he hand-selected Ryan Day for these qualities. I think Don Brown has this level of attention to detail as well and what makes him so good at dialing up his schemes.
2) Salesmanship. A coordinator has to be a good recruiter; an expert closer. The program can't just "sell itself." The process can't be delegated away. I worry that Don Brown is not the best salesman, nor do I think any of this lieutenants are very good in that area (outside, perhaps, linebacker recruiting).
It's rare to find someone with strengths in both areas. You're looking for Mark Cuban :-).
December 2nd, 2019 at 8:54 AM ^
Someone who prepares for rival games for 12 months and puts together a solid game plan, adjusts quickly, gets the team mentally prepared and jacked for games.