What's the Best Way to Defend Milroe's Running Ability?

Submitted by WalterWhite_88 on December 13th, 2023 at 12:22 PM

For those of you who know more about the X's and O's of Football than I do: How should Michigan defend against Milroe's running ability? Should we devote a spy or 2 spies on pass downs? I would think that Zone defense is better for defending a mobile QB, but I could be wrong on that.

Anyway, just curious what the experts on this board think, because I feel like stopping him from running all over the field on us is the #1 key to Michigan winning. He frightens me as much as Vince Young did back in the 2005 Rose Bowl. What I'm most worried about are the 3rd/4th and longs when we do a great job of covering receivers, and then Milroe escapes the pocket and scrambles for the 1st down, similar to what Justin Fields did repeatedly against the Lions last Sunday. Those kinds of plays change games and really deflate the defense, and we need to stop that from happening in order to have a chance to win. 

Sideline

December 13th, 2023 at 12:32 PM ^

Honestly, if there’s a defense in the country equipped to stopping Milroe, it’s this Michigan defense… 

I wish we still had a Peppers back there as that ‘athletic LB’/SS hybrid that you could play a zone-Defense with (just him)…

… but with that said, the rotating DL and tighter coverages should at least confuse Milroe and force him to take some hits early on and not be as keen on run first and forcing him to throw ducks. 
 

we’ll see come Jan 1. 

Qmatic

December 13th, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^

It is going to have to be Barrett I think to be that guy and fill his old Viper role in a way. I think some of the amoeba stuff can work as far as messing with Milroe's reads. Having McGregor drop possibly he could hop into a zone and Milore might not see him. Our pass rush is probably going to have to come from the interior and keeping the Edges as contain. What we don't want is for Milroe to be able to get outside the pocket. However, the interior rush if it doesn't get home and the LBs (especially Colson) get lost, it can be a good 10-15 yards a pop for Milroe up the middle.

It will be a challenge for sure, but if we can make it confusing and keep gap integrity we should be able to do well. Turn him into a pocket passer best you can. Employ the type of contain we did in 2022 vs OSU where Stroud seemed to have "all day" but no one open and being forced to check it down 20 yards down the line of scrimmage for a short gain at most. Now, if we make Milroe do that, I'm not sure he'd have the discipline Stroud had to make those less than spectacular looking throws. Milroe might turn to his legs or try and press it.

Bo Harbaugh

December 13th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^

Haussman or maybe Colson our most athletic LB's and both really good.

Barrett our smartest/most responsible LB also really good.

However,

Will take a team effort and discipline.  Don't think spying with any 1 LB or Sainristil is the approach.

Defense should be on a string and move and flow together, playing assignment football.

This is the way.

NeverPunt

December 13th, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^

I think we can be up to the task. They haven't been lights out against any of the good defenses they faced.

Georgia was the best they faced (#5 in SP+) and they managed 27 points. Texas was the next best (#10) and they managed 24 points. Granted it was early in the year but Texas's defense is similar to ours in structure and strengths. Ole Miss was another top 25 defense in SP+ (ranked 21st)  and they scored 24 in that one too. Texas A&M had a top 25 defense (Ranked 16th) and they scored...26 against A&M.

Against teams in the 30-70 range on SP+ Defense, they've had mixed results, scoring little in wins over teams like Arkansas and real big on teams like LSU. I didn't watch those games so not sure if there was a rhyme or reason to it (turnovers, exploitable weaknesses) but wont be relevant to our game with them.

My guess is the ticket to a win is to hold them to 18-24 points and score more than them, similar to the OSU games. So keep it in front of you, let the front 4 get pressure and keep contain, and hope Barrett and Colson can clean up in the middle. They'll get yards and drive the field but you keep them out of the end zone and make that 18-24 come from a mix of field goals with a couple of TD drives. Then you just need to put it together on Offense and maybe turn over Milroe 1-2 times.  WE have put 30, 24 and 26 against three of the best defenses in the country (OSU, PSU, and Iowa who are all Top 5 in SP+) and Alabamas is #8. Gonna be tough but its doable

NeverPunt

December 13th, 2023 at 2:00 PM ^

i say we score less than them and take our chances, but that's me, I'm a gambler.

My point was that it's similar to OSU - you can't likely "shut them down" - they'll get theirs, but you aim for field goals vs touchdown and nothing easy, make them work for it. This still requires you to score consistently on offense and not turn the ball over, or you'll lose to those same 18-24 points. for some teams like Iowa, scoring more than 24 points is a pipe dream. Just ask Brian Ferentz. luckily, we've got JJ, Blake, and Sherrone.

dragonchild

December 13th, 2023 at 12:33 PM ^

Our DTs are accustomed to light boxes.  And while Alabama's receivers are good, they're not MHJ good.  Also, we have a super-athletic linebacker who's not great at complicated linebacker things.

So this is the game where we should give Colson the proverbial You Have One Job and have him just chase Milroe all day.

4th phase

December 13th, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^

A combo of zone defense on the back end, with a Don Brown style front that aggressively blitzes and doesn't stunt. Stunts, loopers, and spies just give him more time and space to run. Speed him up, make the timer go off, and he will make mistakes. Blitzing will be higher risk and you probably will get got from time to time, but you will force them to single the DTs and produce negative plays. Plus with the zone defense behind them, even on the occasions he does break the pocket for a good gain, you can hold it down for 15 as opposed to 50.

 

edit: as an aside to Seth/Brian....anyway to get Ian Boyd to write an article about matching up with Alabama? Given Texas played them earlier this year, he might have something already written.

lilpenny1316

December 13th, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^

Plenty of zone blitzes. Back when Mike Vick was torching teams when he was with the Falcons, one team (I believe KC) punished him with blitz after blitz. We're not a big blitzing team, but I think that's your best way to limit his running ability, especially if we're throwing at him stuff he didn't see on film.

MaizeBlueA2

December 13th, 2023 at 12:42 PM ^

We've been prepping for OSU by playing two deep safeties most of the year.

I'd like to see us play more single high and walk the "other" safety (since we really don't do FS and SS) down into the box.

Also, if you play more zone, then you have 11 guys looking back at the QB...it's man when everyone's back is turned.

---------------------------------------------------

Michigan plays my favorite defense in NCAA Football, Cover 2 Man.  All corners and linebackers are manned up and you have two high safeties over the top.  I would manually control one of the two safeties and walk him down into the box to take away crossing routes, stop the run, and spy the QB.

On "3rd and long" situations, I walk him down to the LOS and show blitz, but I never rush with him...it's really more to control where the QB thinks he can escape (typically into a blitz or an unbalanced pressure coming from the other side).  I'd always back out, but if the QB ran, now I'm 7 yards down field, not 20 yard down field.  If he stays in the pocket, I'm dropping at the same rate as the WRs to my side.  So unless it's a go route with Tyreek Hill and he completely burns my CB, I'll still be able to play the deep ball.  No reason to bite on a run fake when it's "and long" so that's not going to hold the safety from getting back.

 

stephenrjking

December 13th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^

That number includes 37 negative sack yards (on 4 sacks) by my rough count. He had 9 or 10 carries besides sacks in the game, I think.

Also, it does not show the effect of gameplanning for the run; as Buy Bushwood mentions in the first comment, Georgia played with two spies and three rushers at least some of the time, which allowed Milroe lots of time to throw the ball.

I'd feel better if Michigan had elite edge rushing, because then you can let the DTs hold position and get to him from the outside. When your DTs have to provide a lot of the pressure, that can leave openings.

MaizeBlueA2

December 13th, 2023 at 1:07 PM ^

I've acknowledged the sacks, but that's still not even remotely close to Vince Young or cause for going nuts.

He had two big games on the ground (LSU and Auburn) and a few really nice games.

But the point is, he didn't torch UGA. Their defense did their job.  You've got to score more points.

OSU scored 24 on us...and basically gave up a pick 6.  I don't think they're crushing their defense right now...I think they think that if the defense did what they did, they would've expected to win that football game (going into it).

This wasn't 5 TD Haskins or the 5 explosives in 2022...their defense played well for the most part.  UGA can say the same.  UGA and OSU fans are far more frustrated with their offensive performances - as they should be.  Neither offense did enough to win.

stephenrjking

December 13th, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^

This is a good question and it's the great unknown about the matchup. I'm confident Michigan's defense can slow down Alabama's offense enough, *except* that Milroe's running ability is a great unknown that we haven't really seen Michigan face at this scale since Don Brown was defenestrated.

And I'm not sure how well-equipped Minter is to answer these questions, *except* that the Macdonald-Minter silo has heavy affiliation with the Baltimore Ravens, who happen to have the most dangerous running QB in football at the center of the franchise. So perhaps they already have some good ideas.

Someone more enterprising than me might find if Minter faced dangerous running QBs before he got to Michigan and analyze what he did with them; I'm just a rando with a keyboard on the internet.

I did see someone suggest using Colson as a spy, since that plays to his strengths and diverts him from the pass coverage that appears to be his weakness, and that might be a good idea. I guess we'll see.

Koop

December 14th, 2023 at 10:16 AM ^

FWIW--and it's not much--I'm torn whether Colson or Barrett should be the spy. 

Personally, I favor Barrett, because I'd take the vast football IQ and tremendous blitzing ability over the raw speed. Colson's tendencies to whiff mentally concern me. I recognize that Colson's raw speed, combined with giving him one job to do, has appeal.

I watched a replay of the Bama-LSU game the other night on SEC Network. Granted, LSU decided not to play defense much this year. But focusing on the Bama offense, I saw a lot of misdirection, read-option, attacking the edges--IMHO, it's going to take a spy with a high football IQ to see through the distractions.

1VaBlue1

December 13th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^

Dude is going to convert some 3rd downs - they're good!  The question is can they do it enough to stress the offense into a different game plan?  We can expect Bama to score 24-30 points, because that's what really good teams do.  What we have to hope is that our offense can move the ball easier against their defense than they can move it against ours.

If we score in the 20's, this game will be a toss-up.  In the 30's, we're looking pretty good.  I believe that Minter's base defense is good enough to limit them to under 30, while containing Milroe well enough.  Personally, I hope Moore is ready to call a helluva of a good offensive game, because that's my big worry.

the_dude

December 13th, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^

From what Alex posted the other day, their TEs are just guys, so if they go with 2 TEs that should allow us to use 3 DTs which would play to our strengths. Our cover 2 zone coverage could be a good move here, as you want to force Milroe to string together multiple fresh sets of downs to get into the red zone. 

I would be hesitant to give Milroe too much time by using spies rather than using those guys as pass rushers, Georgia chose this path and it didn't work out well for them. If we can get a lead that may make Milroe more one dimensional and become a pure passer which is not his strength at this time. 

Booted Blue in PA

December 13th, 2023 at 12:56 PM ^

Hopefully he meets Barrett headon on his first attempted run and then Mikey on his second with a couple of shoulder pad to the ribs, wraped up and taken to the turf tackles.......  that should find him a little less eager to pull the ball down and take off up field.   

If that doesn't work wait until big Kenny runs him down from behind and puts the full force of 340# on him, or 339# if he had a light lunch that day.

WestQuad

December 13th, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^

... in order to have a chance to win. 

We are #1.  We are the ones who knock.  Alabama has been a dynasty, but that is why we are going to enjoy this victory so much.

MaizeBlueA2

December 13th, 2023 at 12:59 PM ^

One more fun fact, TaTa had his season low against Michigan (-43 yards) and PSU (-47 yards).  Again, sacks are factored in. 

He rushed for 21 yards against OSU (Milroe rushed for 29 against UGA).

 

Gavin Wimsatt (Rutgers) was the most productive against Michigan, 6 rushes for 28 yards.

ppToilet

December 13th, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^

I'm not going to put this game on our defense; it's really going to be on our offense. Michigan can't play to "not lose" as it has the last several games. It has to go out like Texas did and play to win. Like Michigan did against Urban Meyer's Florida squad in Lloyd Carr's last game.

Milroe will make mistakes if Alabama is constantly trying to catch up to Michigan. This is a winnable game if Michigan goes away from some of its core tendencies.

MostlyHarmless

December 13th, 2023 at 1:20 PM ^

I’m no expert but want to see the first guy to get hands on the QB to make the tackle. It’s demoralizing on 3rd & long to have their QB escape a sack and then run for the first. 

redjugador24

December 13th, 2023 at 1:20 PM ^

Disguise coverages and use a few zone blitzes on 3rd down.  Assign a zone coverage/spy in long yardage situations.  Continue to use all the stunts and games the DL has used all year - but with an emphasis on gap integrity.  Try to make him think before and after the snap so he's not sure what the D is doing - even if we stick with our main man-2 defense, disguise it occasionally.

Milroe is going to make some plays - just have to keep them to a minimum and limit their impact.  E.g. 3rd downs, no 20+ yard runs, etc.  

What we can't do is assign a spy who's not quick or agile enough to contain him.  So frustrating to watch teams waste a defender and not even stop the 1 thing they scheme is designed to stop.  I expect Minter will know better.  

DTOW

December 13th, 2023 at 1:30 PM ^

What does Milroe do well?  1. He can obviously run.  2. He can hit the deep ball.  3. He beats you off script. 

What does he not do well? 1. Not great or experienced at reading defenses. 2. Not a terribly accurate passer.  3. Reliant on big plays.

If I'm Michigan:

- Play two deep with complex coverages 

- Set hard edges on the wide side of the field

- Blitz from the wide side of the field when the ball is on the left hash to push him into the boundary and use the sideline as a 12th defender while speeding up his decision making.

- Use Colson and/or a secondary player as a spy to cheat angles

- Make him beat you by dinking and dunking his way up and down the field.  Eliminate big passing plays and make him execute play after play after play. Compress the field and make him make tighter window throws than he's used to.

If he goes crazy superman mode breaking tackles right and left or goes nuts making tight window throws then so be it.  But I'm not letting him break contain and have easy deep shots to their athletes on the outside and I'm not running coverages that allow for him to get big chunks with deep ins and outs.  Make him beat you by playing boring and efficient football at a high level of execution.

charblue.

December 13th, 2023 at 1:31 PM ^

In watching the Auburn-Alabama game, I was struck by Peyton Thorne's repeated qb runs, especially in the second half which turned out to be game-changing plays for the Tigers until their late game punt muff and inept failure on 4th and 31. 

Milroe wasn't the running threat in that game as much as Thorne became on designed draws, which Milroe almost never ran.

Most of Milroes runs come off scrambles from the pocket. To that extent, Alabama seemed content to allow the defense to occupy their linebackers off the LOS rather than have them commit giving Milroe more. time to scan downfield on pass plays or eventually dodge would-be pass rushers. 

It seems to me that the best way to go after Milroe is never give him a steady diet of anything. Force him to adjust to varying defensive alignments, pressure and spying efforts. It's never a good idea to let a scrambling qb more time to make plays. Once you find something that works, keep doing it until the other side adjusts. 

abertain

December 13th, 2023 at 1:42 PM ^

Late in the game, the Gerogia rush seemed a bit too passive. Milroe was back there a long time, but they did a pretty good job of contain. It's good that Michigan has some fast LB's. He'll be annoying to play against, but he's also not a pinpoint passer, so I'm hoping M gets a pick or two. 

caboose138

December 13th, 2023 at 1:53 PM ^

One thing I have seen more teams do is let loose the pass rush with the design to force the QB to step up into the pocket at which point a "spy" fires on a blitz.  

 

It is less of a traditional spy, waiting for the QB to run and instead dictating to the offense that if you want to escape, you have to do so into the pocket thus leaving less scrambling space to outrun slower LBs on the edge and less time to search downfield for a big scramble drill TD.

Bluetotheday

December 13th, 2023 at 2:02 PM ^

On the defensive line, imperative to stay in your lane. Meaning, if you get pressure backfield, staying in your lane means retracing your path back. My two cents: keep him in the pocket by setting edge.