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October 20th, 2020 at 4:37 PM ^

I'm not a prude, so I don't find any inherent issue with the word "fuck" as long as it's not being directed at children or animals. 

I do find that a troll being allowed to continually ignore the rules about sea-lioning and covid misinformation sends the discussion downhill though. It would appear you disagree though.

Joined: 07/10/2008

MGoPoints: 9599

TIMMMAAY

October 20th, 2020 at 6:47 PM ^

If you ever posted anything coherent, like with sentences and real "information", I would take that apart too. But you don't, so yes I do toss some ad hominem's your way. But anyone trying to argue factually, that sounds reasonably... reasonable, I will engage in a discussion. Again, you don't do that. You just make noises. 

Joined: 09/08/2008

MGoPoints: 56336

Mr Miggle

October 20th, 2020 at 3:23 PM ^

A stay at home order that targets everybody shuts down every business in the area. One targeted at undergrads mostly has them taking online classes and ordering delivery. They may not like it, but the impact on the community is vastly different.

[edit - obviously not every business, but a hell of a lot of them]

Honestly, you put very little thought into your Covid posts. Disappointing since you're a decent poster otherwise.

Joined: 10/07/2010

MGoPoints: 47770

maizenbluenc

October 20th, 2020 at 6:45 PM ^

It is bad enough the University broke their promise for a COVID Informed hybrid semester while jacking tuition and adding a COVID fee when most students paying it have no reason to set foot on campus because virtually all of their classes moved online.

As the father of a son who has been taking all his classes online and pretty much staying in his apartment, I think this County order unfairly targets them. In essence, the citizenry of Wasthenaw county want the economic benefit of students stuck in leases and spending money locally, but doesn't want those infested students around town. I happen to agree, either the entire county shelters in place for two weeks, or they quarantine the students testing positive or at risk from exposure of testing positive in a caring and responsible way, and allow the ones who have been basically acting responsibility to continue on with their lives.

If this were any disenfranchised group, imagine the uproar.

Also, as it turns out, the quarantine experience has a reputation of being pretty horrifically spartan, so no one wants to fess up as being at risk and needing to quarantine. Who would want to live like a spartan?

Joined: 07/21/2009

MGoPoints: 10630

AZBlue

October 20th, 2020 at 4:56 PM ^

While I probably tend to land closer to your side of these arguments much of the time.....maybe it would be a positive growth experience to see if you can step away from posting Covid related stuff on MGo for a few days or even a full week -- maybe even skip reading related threads?  See how it positively affects your blood pressure and stress levels.

As for your points here --- #1. To be fair they ARE targeting the biggest spread risks in the community. (to be Faiiiiiiir......) #2 Even if this is "targeted", there are many targeted things in our society today i.e. "sin" or "luxury" taxes which are easy to pass because they affect few (or few that vote..).  Bitching about them on a blog isn't going to lead to any changes so please revisit my suggestion above.

Joined: 09/14/2008

MGoPoints: 16880

bronxblue

October 20th, 2020 at 2:55 PM ^

Or, and hear me out here, they're addressing a rising number of cases at a couple of dorms on a college campus by...limiting the movement of possible spreaders on said campus for a reasonable amount of time.  

The other option is you just sort of ignore the problem and hope it goes away.  Which has seemingly been the default outlook for half a year now and *gestures at world* with let's say "mixed" success.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 172090

NittanyFan

October 20th, 2020 at 3:11 PM ^

As I said elsewhere, science is 100% definitive in saying that Washtenaw County residents who are not U-M undergrads can also spread the virus.

Never mind the football players exemption too - they'll soon be boarding a plane to MSP, of course.

I don't need to be a governmental leader or doctor to understand that this Washtenaw County order targeting ONLY a segment of the population is not being driven completely by science.

The paragraph above cannot be argued against.  It can be downvoted, of course.  Downvote away.

Joined: 12/04/2012

MGoPoints: 43981

QuentinKyle

October 20th, 2020 at 4:34 PM ^

I doubt there are more than a dozen people that read this site, that actually care to read a word you type anymore.

FWIW, I appreciate NittanyFan's contributions and (typically) his (I think-?) demeanor... Yeah, he's seemingly typically a minority opinion on a board full of frenemies at best; but I think he adds to the discussion and is rarely if ever prone to incendiary rhetoric. 

I know, that means 11 to go, right...? :)  maybe more if we're weighted by points... oh well... just wanted to speak out in favor of reasoned dialouge

 

 

Joined: 01/06/2015

MGoPoints: 417

TIMMMAAY

October 20th, 2020 at 7:13 PM ^

No I should have been more clear. It's his constant bs on the covid topic that gets to me. Otherwise, up until this stuff started, I think he was the model for an opposing fan contributing to the forum. I don't hate him, but I do hate the arguments he continues to try to make. Then he tries to act like he isn't doing the things he's doing. It's very frustrating, during a very serious health crisis, to see this stuff everywhere. He's especially persistent about it, so I have hounded him a little bit. 

Joined: 09/08/2008

MGoPoints: 56336

clown question

October 20th, 2020 at 6:07 PM ^

Unfortunately the data the public has access to isn't complete, but it does say that 66% of the diagnosed Covid cases in Washtenaw county were from those age 18-22 (from 10/1 to 10/14). You can bet a lot of it is spread amongst UM students, that likely has gotten worse in the last week (and public officials likely have access to more specific data, including positivity rates).

As a scientist it seems pretty logical that you'd restrict the segment of your population creating the spread in hopes you don't have to lock down the whole county.

Joined: 01/15/2013

MGoPoints: 123

blue in dc

October 20th, 2020 at 10:22 PM ^

It can easily be argued against.   The greatest spread is occurring amongst college students. Removing that should reduce the spread to others.   Further, it is a targeted approach that causes much less economic harm than a wider spread order.   You may not agree with the argument but it can certainly be made.   

Joined: 01/22/2011

MGoPoints: 20401

1989 UM GRAD

October 20th, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^

I feel so bad for this year's freshmen.  What a terrible way to start off college...and not be able to take advantage of the socializing, the sporting events, etc.

My son is a sophomore living in one of the high rises and is an avid gamer...so his life is 95% the same as it was last year.

But I'm guessing for the vast majority of the student population, this has really been frustrating.

Joined: 03/08/2012

MGoPoints: 1531330

DCGrad

October 20th, 2020 at 2:53 PM ^

I don't know what's in the water in MI, but you have some real idiots in charge in Michigan with the different treatment of similarly situated individuals in these orders.

Joined: 09/20/2014

MGoPoints: 9261

Denarded

October 20th, 2020 at 3:32 PM ^

Michigan State undergrad partying in Ann Arbor for Halloween next weekend:

Police Officer: You are breaking our stay at home order. 

MSU Student: I go to Michigan State. 

Police Officer: Oh my, I am so sorry. These laws do not apply to you, carry on. 

Joined: 12/13/2010

MGoPoints: 14776

robpollard

October 20th, 2020 at 4:17 PM ^

I thought your point of your original post was the police officer would not have a law to enforce. Now, your concern is that there won't be enough police to enforce the law? If they had enough police, would you move towards, "Why are there so many police enforcing this?"

The point of these orders is to improve the public health by telling the public what is expected of them and, if people violate the orders and are caught, penalties are an option.

If you don't think there should be these orders, argue that. Concern trolling wastes everyone's time.

Joined: 06/03/2009

MGoPoints: 14013

Denarded

October 20th, 2020 at 4:33 PM ^

Guess I gotta spell it out here:

My original post is that this new mandate doesn't pertain to a majority of the people that will actually be on campus partying. If you have recently been in college to experience Halloween/or MSU UM tailgate you should know hundreds of thousands of undergrads come from MSU, and several more from different colleges around the state to party that weekend. COVID isn't going to significantly change that fact.

There will not be nearly enough police officers to enforce "penalties" and they cannot catch everyone that will be out and about in Ann Arbor next weekend. Thinking everyone is going to stay at home during a rivalry weekend paired with a holiday that is one of the largest college partying days of the year because Washtenaw County said so is pretty wishful thinking my man. 

 

Joined: 12/13/2010

MGoPoints: 14776

robpollard

October 20th, 2020 at 5:30 PM ^

You think thousands of MSU students are going to come to Ann Arbor for Halloween parties?

I have no idea how we'll test this, but I will bet you a dollar that's not the case.

This is not a regular year, for a whole host of reasons. To pick one example, I do not think fraternities (like they would in a normal year) are going to hold large, 50-plus people gatherings for Halloween and not only put themselves at the risk of a fine but at risk of getting penalties from the university (e.g., kicked out of school -- Schlissel has said they don't want to do that, but has acknowledged there can be those type of consequences).

Will there be some gatherings? Of course. But I think the number and size will be down, significantly.

EDIT: Schlissel was just interviewed and said some students have already "lost their right to a room contract" in campus housing because of violations. And that was before today; my strong guess is they will not be fucking around, esp for Halloween (remember, U of M has their own police force; they don't have to rely on city enforcement).

Joined: 06/03/2009

MGoPoints: 14013

rob f

October 20th, 2020 at 6:05 PM ^

So you're saying that the Washtenaw Co. Health dept and local law enforcement shouldn't even try to do anything to damp down the spread of covid?

And some wonder why this country is so very far behind the rest of the world in both controlling covid AND getting back to normal... 

Joined: 11/11/2010

MGoPoints: 195703

Broken Brilliance

October 20th, 2020 at 7:23 PM ^

Hi Rob, appreciate all you're doing to raise the bar in civil discussion on here although I'm grateful for OT season being mercifully over.

When have our metro area counties stopped doing things to "slow the spread"? I feel like either these capacity limits and face covering rules work effectively or they don't. 

For once I would like these entities to be transparent with the data and what numbers they are aiming for, obviously zero cases won't ever happen again. That way we know when extensions are warranted instead of a cumulative death or cases count (often with delays in reporting) after the fact with no context. I want to see bi-partisan effort to meet somewhere rational in the middle to set reasonable goals for the public (that way they can't set unattainable goals like what Newsom in CA set with his map with the pretty colors). Can't wait for the tribalism to end and the pollyanna side of me hopes that will take baby steps towards happening after this shitty day in november, but the realist in me doubts it.

Joined: 09/07/2010

MGoPoints: 7728

MRunner73

October 20th, 2020 at 4:08 PM ^

??? What's confusing to me is Washtenaw County is issuing this stay at home order and NOT the university. I would think the university has the authority to make this decision and order. Who enforces this order? U of M? The county? Will the county sheriff patrol to see if students are gathering? Does this mean ALL classes are now done on line, and for two weeks?

I also ask, what about the other colleges in the county? We have EMU, Concordia and WCCC, does this order apply to them as well? I am not against this order but it seems quite odd about the timing and the two week limit of the order. 

Joined: 11/11/2018

MGoPoints: 16966