Upsides and Downsides to Shuffling the OL
The catastrophic situation at right tackle has prompted a lot of discussion about line shuffling in the past week, and with good reason. However, the other four spots in the OL were locked in from early on in camp and to my knowledge no hints have emerged from inside that shuffling had previously been on the table.
So the question is, what's the decision matrix on this? The obvious switch would be to throw Bredeson out to right tackle and insert Runyan or Ruiz in his place. But does that harm development of the guards, or affect chemistry? Should we preserve Bredeson's development for 2018?
If we've learned anything from 10 years of mediocre-to-dreadful line play, it's that coaching and playing OL is a complex challenge that doesn't just happen. There are some obvious upsides and downsides that I can think of, but what say you? I'm especially interested in people who know a bit about coaching or playing these positions.
October 12th, 2017 at 9:19 PM ^
October 12th, 2017 at 9:38 PM ^
October 12th, 2017 at 10:07 PM ^
October 13th, 2017 at 12:46 AM ^
thank you for being a hall monitor
October 13th, 2017 at 1:59 PM ^
October 12th, 2017 at 9:44 PM ^
October 12th, 2017 at 9:51 PM ^
October 12th, 2017 at 9:59 PM ^
I'll the Iowa's O plus Alabama/LSU D over OSU's O & D. That's a match up that is winnable IMO.
We have a great kicker(s). Damn fine punter & a world class D. Let's embrace that shit & win with it. We aspire to be Sugar Ray Robinson. Awesome O & D ready to take any style. Right now we're Alexis Arguello. Great D & just enough O to take the cards. He won multiple belts and I we know who we are so could we. Just be the grinder that wins ugly and smile at them as they snicker. This shit ain't a beauty contest.
October 12th, 2017 at 10:37 PM ^
Well, that's just great... that means OSU is Aaron Pryor. Thanks a lot.
October 12th, 2017 at 10:28 PM ^
October 12th, 2017 at 10:52 PM ^
is they have to relearn to change his stance and techniques/footwork since it's the complete opposite from the other side where they're used to doing it on the field.
It's like telling a baseball player who throws right handed, to start throwing lefthanded. Same concept.
I would keep certain OL on the same side and find someone else who has been trained to play at the right side on the right side.
I know one who said that switching from LT to RT is so difficult because he has to relearn everything to do the opposite of what he's been doing.
October 13th, 2017 at 12:18 AM ^
October 13th, 2017 at 12:29 AM ^
being dramatic. That someone was a D1 OL and played in practice squad in the NFL. What he said is pretty consistent with other OL have said. Not that easy to switch from one side to another. This isn't Madden.
Try your usual stance and go off from it to try to block someone. Now do the stance opposite of it and do the same thing. Not so easy. Plus there's footwork and blocking techniques which is the opposite of what you're used to doing.
Swing tackles are a rarity. Just because you're a swing tackle, doesn't mean you can do both well.
OL is such a technical position that if you have shitty techniques, you're going to get exposed by DL who knows how to defeat blocks.
October 13th, 2017 at 12:37 AM ^
October 13th, 2017 at 12:44 AM ^
but most OL even the pros have a hard time adjusting to it. It takes about a full year for them to get used to it. To expect someone like say Bredeson to switch from LG to RT and do better is unrealistic since he hasn't repped RT since the starting line was set.
I'm sure you can do it but when the pros (know quite a few of them) consistently said it's not easy. It's not easy for most of them and they're freak athletes.
October 13th, 2017 at 12:47 AM ^
October 13th, 2017 at 1:02 AM ^
is apples to oranges since it doesn't involves 100% blocking.
Sayiing flipping from LT to RT and LG to RG isn't hard is hilarious because it's still hard because you have to do the opposite. Yes, repping helps but no coaches would keep doing it to the starters. Backups? Sure because you have to prepare for all possibilties but you don't move starters around because they need the reps for the game.
October 13th, 2017 at 8:47 AM ^
October 13th, 2017 at 12:51 AM ^
October 13th, 2017 at 3:11 AM ^
Generally, every other position on the football field switches sides: most defenses, backs, receivers...C has to block both directions. The QB drops facing his throwing side on drop-back passes, but everything else, he has to learn going left and going right. It's not that hard, if you train for it, Physically, it is a challenge at first, but there is quite a bit of carry-over. Mentally it's more a question of inside versus outside? Open side or closed side?
The advantage of flipping a lineman is, as mentioned, you can use the next best guy to step up in case of injuries. Also, you can do more with formations (e.g. putting your weaker OT on the boundary side, or covered up with a TE), and influence what fronts the defense will align in to optimize any mismatches.
October 13th, 2017 at 4:32 AM ^
October 12th, 2017 at 10:54 PM ^
October 12th, 2017 at 11:29 PM ^
I don't know, pass protect is really easy if you know your assigment. Run blocking is hard. Especially if your opponent is good. Pass pro you just have to get in front of your man and stay there to slow him down enough and maybe even stop his bitch ass. It seems like our guys are focused on the arm part of the process and not just simply getting their ass over there with their feet and in front of said defender. That said, I don't see Michigan getting bottled up in the passing game that much. Remember Garder and that shit-show? Yeah times are actually pretty good right now. Feeling out the short passing game routes on early downs should be looked into. Just like the West Coast Offense did with the 49ers back in the day. That running game and bombs over the top will follow. I think whatever the team is good at, more focus should be sent that way at this point in the season. If O'Korn can make good decisions and the damn receivers catch the ball, this team can be a pretty good passing team I'd say. Spend more time ripping on the B1G secondaries. Their talent is nothing too great.
October 13th, 2017 at 5:21 PM ^
Run blocking is easier in that respect. Think of it this way, run blocking requires the D to read and properly react. Pass blocking puts that task on the O line.
I say overall run blocking is easier. I speak only for traditional power run blocking as that's what I know.
October 13th, 2017 at 1:58 AM ^
and maybe shuffle the driver to the backseat, but more twosies.
October 13th, 2017 at 2:01 AM ^
but will be baby steps... enough to win this one though
October 13th, 2017 at 2:29 AM ^
I agree. I'm concerned with what happens when we face the better defenses, though. By better I mean either in talent and/or coaching. What MSU lacked in talent they have in coaching. I have yet to see UM offensive coaches use common sense in game planning this year. You know what the strengths and esp. weaknesses are by now with this offense way more than us armchair QBs. Quit trying to dictate how you THINK it should happen during the game. Be realistic and use what you've been given. Get simple. The turnover problem, I've seen this whenever an offense is poorly coached. Ditto penalties, which I'd say we also have too many of for a Michigan offense. The kids lack confidence and/or are trying to do too much and/or aren't being held to fundamentals. For running backs to fumble the way they are this year is frankly inexcusable. Helmet on the ball, fine, it happens. But these kids lack the teaching and discipline to put two hands on it when they feel contact. Come on, man.
October 13th, 2017 at 8:59 AM ^
I think the only tougher defenses than Florida and MSU that Michigan has yet to face would be Wisconsin and OSU. That leaves a lot of time for much needed improvements. Let the defense carry the team until then, which is completely plausible.
October 13th, 2017 at 5:09 AM ^
At this point, the Downsides:
October 13th, 2017 at 6:20 AM ^
We need more creativity with this offense, not less.
Isn't that obvious?
October 13th, 2017 at 8:08 AM ^
October 13th, 2017 at 6:49 AM ^
October 13th, 2017 at 9:02 AM ^
We need to do something. If Ulizio is getting destroyed now against meh competition and JBB is his replacement...um....uh...not good. Brian and Ace's suggestion makes the most sense to me. Bredeson has played tackle previously and Ruiz or Runyan would logically replace him as they're already getting some rotation time anyway.
We need to figure something out prior to playing teams like OSU who eat tackles alive or it won't matter who's playing QB.
October 13th, 2017 at 9:45 AM ^
At this point I'm wondering if you just need to take what you have and stick with it. Of course I'm no football coach, but with all of the constant shuffling you're preventing any chance for cohesion. I imagine shuffling guys around mean they have to learn or re-learn completely new techniques, foot stances, pad level, etc.
I understand trying to find the best five you can, but at this point I think the line is what it is, and it's just not very good. Take what you've got, make them the best you can so they all have a shot of gelling together before the OSU game, and do whatever shuffling you need to in the offseason.
October 13th, 2017 at 10:04 AM ^