Talking Cars Tuesday Wants an AWD Car
Mates,
With a nod to the Prince of Talking Cars Tuesday, our Mgofriend Jeepin Ben, OT season is here. I also note that it looks like its Tuesday all day long, so away we go.
For decades I have driven 1 ton 4x4 diesel trucks. We have a herd of them and they are necessary equipment on the farm and living up north. But lately I've had an inkling to get possibly get a car, an AWD car of one sort or another. A random internet search turned up this list for 2023:
- 2023 Audi A5 | MT Score: 9.2
- 2023 Audi A7 | MT Score: 8.9
- 2023 Genesis G90 | MT Score: 8.8
- 2023 BMW 2 Series | MT Score: 8.8
- 2023 Toyota GR Corolla | MT Score: 8.7
- 2023 Audi A4 | MT Score: 8.7
- 2023 Audi A6 | MT Score: 8.6
- 2023 BMW i4 | MT Score: 8.6
- 2023 Subaru Legacy | MT Score: 8.5
- 2023 Porsche 911 Carrera 4 Cabriolet | MT Score: 8.5
- 2023 Genesis G80 Electric | MT Score: 8.4
- 2023 Kia Stinger | MT Score: 8.3
- 2023 Dodge Challenger | MT Score: 8.3
- 2023 Audi A3 | MT Score: 8.2
- 2023 Mazda3 | MT Score: 8.1
There are some even bigger/fancier AWD vehicles such as Cadillac, Lexus and the Audi A8. I also believe that most (all?) EV's are AWD as each wheel has it's own electric motor. If I ever did get a car, I'd do my usual auction purchase of a semi-thrashed unit (pennies on the dollar) and fix it up, but I'd guess that most of you city mice have bigger pocketbooks and no desire to buy a used car. In any case, today's Talking Cars Tuesday questions are these:
`1. Do you have any desire to own/drive an AWD car, and if so, what make and model(s) would it be?
2. Putting aside any requirement of AWD, do you have an eye, an inkling, a dream, or even an order right now for a new car? If so, please dish on the details.
Have a great Tuesday,
XM
No Jeep?
I barely see a Jeep without thinking of our instructor in MP School returning from our driving "lesson" to Fort Eisenhauer (ne' Gordon) as he stood in the lead vehicle singing a variation on the old gospel song, "Bringing in the Sheaves."
"Bringing in the Jeeps. Bringing in the Jeeps. We shall go rejoicing bringing in the Jeeps."
In other words, I'm no help. Good luck.
jeeps are great but not really 'cars'.
fun song.
March 26th, 2024 at 11:08 AM ^
I was today years old when I found out its not "Bringing in the Sheep" lol
My daily is a 2003 GMC Savanna AWD. Seeing as you live on a farm, I'd expect you'd want to have some level of functionality to the vehicle. I'd suggest a Subaru Outback/Forester. The Lexus GX and LX series are both luxurious and functional. However, they may be only 4wd, not AWD.
I've got the hankering for a RestoMod 1972 GMC Vandura. I'd love to find one in great shape in the desert somewhere and put either the 5.3 LS/AWD powerplant or the 6.6 Duramax/Allison powerplant in it. A body with all metal panels combined with a powerplant that's bombproof. Truly a vehicle built to survive Armageddon!
the old van with the new powerplant and drive train would be a show vehicle. ooohs and aaahhs from all around.
i'm actually not that picky about the difference b/w AWD and 4WD for this purpose. maybe i should've put that in the OP.
I love my 2008 Audi A5, 3.2L ~135,000 miles.
We pretty much only purchase AWD cars and SUVs.
I previously had an Audi S4, which I loved and road like a charm. We recently traded that in and we went with 2 different BMW's (M440 X drive and an M4 X Drive). Both are fantastic cars. Before moving to AWD, i previous had some luxury and sports cars that were RWD. While I enjoyed that power and torque, I really like have the equal distribution of power, especially when the weather is shitty.
You really cannot go wrong with an Audi or BMW with their AWD systems, should you want a luxury car sedan/car. Just make sure you get the right tires. I am replacing the tires on the M440 because they are low profile 3 season tires, so some slippage in the winter months. Thats really it.
have been eyeing audi A8's, AWD....diesel. 36 mpg. right now if there was one near me for sale i'd be very tempted.
Get a quattro. Skip the diesel.
at 36 mpg and me having built a biodiesel reactor in the barn, the diesel calls to me. not to mention our tractors, trucks and the one car we own (dear wife's) is a diesel.
Believe that the 36 mph is highway, not combined. Obviously what number is most relevant depends heavily on how you will use it.
I noticed you’re all in on diesel, so you’ll probably stick with it. There are good reasons to switch though.
I would recommend you consider a Q series instead of the A. Stepping down from a truck to a car is a big jump down in room. Consider one of the crossovers instead.
March 26th, 2024 at 11:09 AM ^
we live in the boonies and using a diesel car would primarily be for rural/country road/highway driving. plus, i invariably get a bit more than the posted MPG for vehicles. i'm guessing on a road trip i'd get 40 mpg in a Q8.
March 26th, 2024 at 11:17 AM ^
If you want big German War Wagon luxury, consider purchasing a used unit. They all will have lower ground clearance (skip the aero dams on the front!) than you might find useful on the farm, but they can surely honk on down the road. I drove a used BMW 750 LXi for the better part of a decade and it was unstoppable and undaunted by Michigan Winters (lower penninsula version). I had the twin turbo V8 and loved it's highway performance. It got 22-23 mpg on I-75 doing 80+, so finding a diesel verson may not be that critical. Buying used for a part time car makes sense, you'll be able to buy a lot of tanks of gas for what you save going in.
In summary, it was a good handling bullet train on paved roads and quiet as a church inside. you'll like it.
March 26th, 2024 at 12:04 PM ^
As the owner of three BMW X5s, I can speak with experience: stay away from the 4.4L V8. Buy literally anything else. If you wake up having purchased a BMW with a 4.4L V8, consider completely changing your identity and moving to an Eastern European country to ensure that you have adequately abandoned the car.
Uh, oh. I've got an X5 M50i, twin blowers on the 4.4. It's just for road trips. What's up with the 4.4?
I wonder when your 4.4L V8 BMW's were purchased? That engine was completely redesigned a few years ago. I just returned a 2020 M559 after almost four years of leasing and the car never once needed a drop of oil and had zero engine problems. The performance was a thing of beauty. Having said that, I would not own a BMW without a warranty. Ditto for Audis.
Here's a link about the engine:
I have been buying all-wheel drive cars for close to 20 years. I had an Audi A8L Quatro and a bunch of BMW AWD's. I like AWD performance in snow and rain.
I now live in TX and just bought a 2024 BMW 540 iX AWD. The powerplant is a twin-Turbo in-line six cylinder with 375 HP. BMW has had great success with their straight six powerplants.
Recommend getting a dedicated set of Winter Tires/Wheels
Tesla Model Y LR. Assuming you have the budget, given that list. Thank me later
Same. Not all EVs are AWD, but the most popular version of the Model Y is AWD. It does great in the snow and is very cheap to operate (assuming you charge at home). Putting aside whatever you might feel about E.M., the Model Y is a great car.
This is an important point most of the popular EVs are AWD, but some, usually cheaper, EVs do not have motors on both axels and are not AWD.
March 26th, 2024 at 11:03 AM ^
Tesla are the biggest piece of shit cars made. Let alone you have no guarantees on who will fix it when they break down because they always have problems plus keep getting rid of their customer service departments and don't want to fix any defects with all those cars and make the customer pay for them because no matter the defect the customer is at fault. Do your research people Tesla sucks. Also why would you buy a car from a racist person who is a disgusting human being. Musk is the downfall of humans.
March 26th, 2024 at 11:09 AM ^
Do you own a Tesla or are you just watching CNN? Happy with my purchase, politics aside. The only thing I don’t like is the amount of hate I receive for driving it. Your post combines all the scrutiny Tesla has faced over the last few years, yet does not note what Tesla has done to rectify such issues. You’ll never get a Tesla, but don’t have some piss poor attitude about a company you know Jack shit about. Tell me you hate Elon without telling me you hate Elon.
March 26th, 2024 at 11:17 AM ^
Bro I know all about Tesla and they are the worst brand out their besides their Musk being a jackass of a human being. Do your research bud. CNN has nothing to do with me knowing what a shit brand Tesla is. There is a months of waiting and arguing to fix a Tesla because the customer is the one who made the defects in the cars they say. They are poorly made cars that is a fact. Yes the company does have a few good things the charging stations but other then that Tesla is one of the worst car brands out there. The quality is terrible. I do not like Musk one but but that has nothing to do with the cheapness and bad quality of the car. Facts are Facts buddy. Sorry the truth hurts and you have to make it into something way off topic about CNN. That tells your knowledge about cars is all I need to know. The latest example is the piece of junk and ugly as hell looking cybertruck.
Also I should say this I thought they were cool when they first came out the first Teslas but after that they went all down hill. He did succeed in making a car brand but when you cheap out on paying employees and using slave labor in other countries and use the cheapest of car parts have have a quality control department of about 10 people you will never make a good car.
https://www.theverge.com/2023/12/20/24009232/tesla-vehicles-have-serious-quality-issues-part-7294656
This is just one article of many and look who is to balme for the shitty quality of the car. The customer. Customers have been made to but new batteries after less then 500 miles on it because they drove in some rain or a water puddle when raining. I could spend days on this. Not saying other companies don't have a couple issue here or there but a couple compared to thousands is a big difference
March 26th, 2024 at 12:40 PM ^
You really should own one before judging.
Like I said, I love mine. Sorry you had that experience with your--oh wait you never owned one.
Are you GM's spokeperson? You should really learn grammar first
Slave labor? The cars are produced in the US
Cheap parts? Which ones? And cheap compared to what? Specific examples would be nice instead of "quality is terrible" "facts are facts" whose facts?
And honestly, anyone who accuses someone of being racist when talking about cars is a moron. I hate people like you.
March 26th, 2024 at 11:36 AM ^
Sorry you have hate for driving it but it would be like my grandpa driving a car made or owned by a lighter version of Hitler. If the owner of any other car company hates the Jewish race and was a racist and did drugs everyday and was just a piece of shit human being then those people would be hated for driving that brand. Facts are facts about the man. I don't wear certain clothes or buy certain products because I have a moral standard I try to live by. But I saying that doesn't mean I always know ever companies background before I buy and that is on me. But if I buy clothing that has a owner that promotes slavery, hates anyo e that isnt white and had very bad views about women also I would expect people to hate on me for wearing that shirt or clothing. You have to be able to brush your shoulders off if you are going to buy or represent something that doesn't have good core values as a company.
March 26th, 2024 at 12:50 PM ^
I would say there’s no car company that encapsulates my moral values. Your Musk points stand, but the original Ford was pro-fascism, and American car companies for the most part are short term profit driven entities and have completely ignored the need to transition to carbon-less tech until only very recently and only due to pressure in the market from other companies (including Tesla). Chinese companies clearly have the best design and tech behind them, but the other issues with purchasing from them go without saying. Lucid just took money from Saudi Arabia. Don’t know about the European and other Asian based car companies, but it’s really hard to find a “moral” car company.
I didn't read all that. But Porsche was literally created by the Nazi's.
Do you own any products made in China? I hate to break your fragile bubble but all your phones and gadgets are produced by this so called "slave labor"
Get off your moral high horse. I can tell you never learned how to write properly...maybe too much time being woke. By the way, you want to talk about Jews? How do you feel about the women and children killed by Jews everyday...hmmm
If I were buying today, it would be this exact vehicle. But I'll probably wait another 5 years for those vehicles' depreciation to hit the inflexion point of their curve. Not huge on investing in depreciating assets.
Got an M3 comp. RWD. Should have gotten AWD but the dealer actually told me it was. Put it in sport plus and it’s like a new born giraffe under full throttle. Just spinning wheels. Otherwise, holy shit that car is fast. Didn’t expect THAT.
Love the comp editions of the M line. I have a base M4 as my every day driver, plenty fast for me, but man, would have loved a comp.
Sorry about the dealership issue regarding it being an X drive. The dealer where I live now only stocks X drives because pretty much that is all anyone wants here. The only way to get a non X drive is to either buy an on the lot used BMW or you have to custom order it.
It’s only bad on wet roads but even dry roads it breaks loose even at 70+ in sport plus. The only knock is the 8 speed but even that is better (and I love manuals)
edit: that S58 engine is something, very, very special.
While I am a big EV fan for many reasons, the ability to have AWD is not one of them. While there are a few models with AWD, it is definitely not a standard feature. The extra weight of an additional motor has generally not been worth the tradeoff for most manufacturers.
As both battery and charging technology continues to improve, I suspect that it will become a more common feature, albeit one that comes with shorter range. Note that combustion engine AWD vehicles also take an efficiency hit, but obviously range on a tank of gas is not the same downside in an ICE and an EV.
March 26th, 2024 at 10:07 AM ^
Yeah it's important to note AWD is not a standard feature on EVs. It's somewhat unique that virtually all of the modern EVs have an AWD option at a middle-trim so I think a large quantity of EVs are AWD.
March 26th, 2024 at 10:47 AM ^
It is definitely changing quickly. A few years ago when we bought our Kona, AWD options were very limited and exclusively on high end models. Seems now that uppe 280s for range is common place, tradeofs it is easier to tradeoff more range for AWD.
As battery technology continues to improve, it will be interesting to see how EVs evolve.
I have an audi. They have been perfecting AWD longer than everyone else. They handle beautifully.
Sorry that's just super false.
Porsche had it first. Subaru has had it continuously longest in consumer cars.
Audi was a garbage brand before Piech took them over.
Sure Porsche, is first and Lamborghini was the first supercar and GM made the first EV. Your Porsche is a huge money pit and Subaru, a great car, has unfortunately gone the way of the fiat in the 80s/90s. Not sure you want either in the UP.
So glad I avoided the Cayenne. Super fun to drive but what a waste of money (upfront, gas, and maintenance).
March 26th, 2024 at 11:43 AM ^
Wait, Porsche is a money pit but Audi isn't?
True, but its relative. German cars are expensive to maintain. Still like the Audi for AWD.
Car journalist here…
If AWD is the overriding concern, Audi, Subaru or Acura SH-AWD are best options for that.
EVs typically have RWD or AWD depending on whether they have a single motor on an axle or a dual motor setup with one on each axle.
Would also point out most people need winter tires not AWD. If you actually live in somewhere that gets snowed in you need a 4x4 not torque vectoring
Winter tires for most people are indeed enough. Howeva, a good AWD system is quite amazing. I had a Subaru with 300+ hp and had performance all-season tires (as close to summer tires as you can get without technically being summer tires) living in Buffalo, and I ran circles around every vehicle out there in the winter time. Never had remotely any issue whatsoever no matter how deep the snow was - and we got quite a bit of snow. Big 4x4 trucks were struggling going down the road after one particular heavy snow, and I ran through it like there was basically nothing there!
I've never driven an Audi, I know many say their AWD is the best, but for the average person what you get from Subaru is top notch.
March 26th, 2024 at 10:35 AM ^
In Houghton I feel like there were a million jeeps and Subarus. Maybe not enough money for audis up there. I just had an S10 with a tractor weight bolted above the rear axle and winter tires.
We lived on a steep hill and sometimes watched cars get stuck trying to go up.
March 26th, 2024 at 11:11 AM ^
and when we would get 300" of snow in a year over in marquette, houghton would get 400".
Morning, XM.
I'm rarely in conditions that require AWD, but it's nice to have it when weather gets iffy down here.
I'll wholeheartedly say that the wife and I love our Rivians (she's got the SUV, I've got the truck). The truck is "car sized" to me compared to my other truck which you've seen. They've exceeded our expectations on everything from handling, to towing, ride comfort, acceleration, etc. The quad motor setup is capable of multiple drive modes for almost every conceivable traction condition. Being fully electric is a bonus. We'd be hard pressed to ever buy a new ice vehicle again. (Buying an old manual diesel Toyota land cruiser is still a goal).
No desire to look for a new vehicle for either of us as a result. We did put a deposit down for the newly unveiled Rivian R2 on the off chance that she would want to move to a smaller vehicle, but we'll see.
So cool to hear people love the Rivian. The RS1 would be the electric vehicle for us with 4 kids if we had the money. Looking at a Toyota Grand Highlander Hybrid as our next vehicle. Carries 8 and gets great gas mileage with good power.
I've seen amazing videos of the Rivian doing crazy trail climbs that fully redone 4x4 vehicles won't try, and then go race a sports car in a drag and win that. Truly amazing vehicles.
Pricing is more affordable now for the R1S if optioned with the dual motor variant instead of the quad and with the smaller battery pack (if range isn't an issue). With Rivian now having access to the Tesla supercharger network, I can't think of a situation where range anxiety is even a thing anymore.
Service centers should be offering test drives for anyone who wants to sign up for one. I can't sing the company's praises enough.
March 26th, 2024 at 11:03 AM ^
I think they are wonderful vehicles. My range anxiety only stems from the fact that this would take over as the family vehicle to get us places. We go to Traverse City from Metro detroit area multiple times a year in both the winter and summer for vacations and for kids sports. I prefer to make the trip with no stops, or one quick stop when possible. We are looking to have a car in case our explorer starts having mechanical trouble (8 years, and no issues right now, but I know once I hit 100,000 miles and 10 years, the costs and breakdown issues can start up).
I think our vehicle after the next one will definitely be an electric. I've been in the battery industry for 2 decades, so am excited to see it grow and take off.