So what offense do you want? (not snark)
We're critical of the way this offense has been playing, and certainly there's merit to the criticism, especially after last Saturday. A lot of people have been decrying the RPO take and wish that we'd just play old fashioned Michigan "manball."
But it needs to be pointed out that the reason Harbaugh switched to the RPO was specifically because "manball" wasn't working. We were sluggish, slow to keep pace, so obsessed with ball control that we couldn't play from behind against good teams. And credit Harbaugh to the extent that he recognized something wasn't working last year in the big games and at least not saying "This is the way we've always done it!"
I remember a lot of people decrying the lethargic, lumbering pace of the playcalling last year, particularly when Michigan was down two or more scores. "Manball" wasn't cutting it. When OSU and Florida both kicked their offenses into 5th gear, ours couldn't seem to shift up from second. But in reality that's the general nature of "manball;" it's not really made to come from behind in tempo, at least not the way Bo and Lloyd ran it. It runs on the assumption that the defense will consistently do it's job, but as we see that's not always feasible, and in truth SHOULDN'T always be counted on.
So Harbaugh picks up Gattis. now, whether or not he made the right choice in Gattis is another question which seems to be leaning in the negative at the moment (I call for patience, but can't deny what I've seen so far). But he was willing to do SOMETHING different, because he realized that there were times when the "manball" principle wasn't working against teams with higher octane schemes.
But that brings up the question: if not the RPO, then what?
Again: we've already determined that the traditional pro-style as Harbaugh had it in 2018 wasn't cutting it in the big games. We wanted something different, but what kind of "different" should there be?
Personally, I actually liked Harbaugh's 2015 offense overall. Use of tight ends, a good mix of under center/shotgun, a power run game BUT also a decent pass threat, and (IMO most important) a QB who, while not a dual threat, was at least a scramble threat; Rudock wasn't going to run 50 for a TD like Denard, but he could pick up a fast five and forced defenses to at least account for him as a short yardage runner.
So from an offensive scheme perspective, what your preferred take?
September 27th, 2019 at 5:06 PM ^
I don't care what style offense they run, I just want it to work. Pro-style/manball is fine, spread/RPO stuff is fine. A mix of the two is fine, which is probably what they should be doing now - pro style with some spread and RPO elements.
Just pick something and get it to fucking work.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:14 PM ^
It would be nice if we could get the second play of the game off without taking a timeout.
It would be nice if we, follow me here, snapped the ball with more than 5 seconds left on the clock despite not huddling GOD DAMMIT WE HIRED YOU TO SPEED THINGS UP NOT SLOW THEM DOWN IN NEW WAYS
It would be real nice if we didn't fumble a lot.
And it would be super duper nice if there was any game planning whatsoever. Like any. Pick a strategy. Throw darts at a dartboard for all I care, just have a damned plan.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:21 PM ^
Last year- huddle, walk to line, struggle to snap ball before play clock expires
This year- don't huddle, stand at line, struggle to snap ball before play clock expires
September 27th, 2019 at 5:36 PM ^
How about throw the ball to Bell, Black, DPJ & Collins (all who are going to go to the NFL) like 70% of the time. Actually give the ball to your best players. This is the part of our offense I just don't understand. If healthy, these 4 should be on the field at the same time just about all the time.
September 27th, 2019 at 8:34 PM ^
This. I’m sure the coaches were paying attention to the garbage time reps last week. We finally started to lob the ball and give our NFL caliber receivers a chance to make a play and they delivered. It’s time to go full Penn State 2016 lob city.
September 27th, 2019 at 8:24 PM ^
Last year's philosophy was good, but needed the following in my view.
- Moar tempo - meaning the ability to go fast or slow and run 80-90 plays per game
- Better development of the RPO package
- 55% run/45% pass - last year was 63% run/45% pass
- Moar short and intermediate routes
September 27th, 2019 at 10:36 PM ^
Agreed, and those things would have been easy add-ons instead of installing an entirely new system.
September 28th, 2019 at 12:56 AM ^
Predictability is the kiss of death
September 27th, 2019 at 5:06 PM ^
Fast & exciting is preferable, but I would take 3 yards & a cloud of dust if it meant wins against the big boys.
September 27th, 2019 at 8:17 PM ^
Same for me. Really don't care which one. Please pick one though.
I just don't want both to be run in the same game.
I honestly believe that is the mix up that causes TO's cuz play clock is running down, etc. Gattis might call play and then there's a discussion and possible switch to different play.
Go Blue!
September 27th, 2019 at 5:07 PM ^
September 27th, 2019 at 5:08 PM ^
‘15 and ‘16 seemed to be coherently designed offenses that made good use of motion and creates mismatches and misdirection. It seems like we’ve lost some intelligence, which is puzzling. Now plays seem kind of random and lack much design. I’d go back to man ball, provided there was some thought and creativity to it. Not trying to live in the past, but Harbaugh at Stanford didn’t have any problems...
September 27th, 2019 at 5:24 PM ^
Not that puzzling since the creativity moved to California with Jedd Fisch.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:48 PM ^
Fisch was the secret sauce. Harbaugh should have called him instead of Gatttis.
Our offense in 2015 and 2016 is exactly what I would like to see, but with even better athletes.
September 27th, 2019 at 6:34 PM ^
Minus Pepcat "package," which as far as I remember was literally one play.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:53 PM ^
It was . Peppers keeping EVERY SINGLE TIME. We had ourselves convinced there were other parts that would be unveiled vs TUOS, and those new wrinkles consisted of Peppers keeping EVERY SINGLE TIME.
September 28th, 2019 at 11:23 AM ^
Yes! Remember when we all collectively spent the entire season saying “Pep is finally going to throw it this time!”
Nope.
Wait! Maybe they’re saving a throw for OSU! Yeah!
... Nope
September 27th, 2019 at 6:45 PM ^
Not sure why OP says man ball did not work. It was pretty good for the 10 game win streak last year. Yes, wasn't good when playing catch up, and the tempo needed to be picked up a bit, but otherwise it worked.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:08 PM ^
You can score using any offense if you run it well. All I want is an offense that the team runs effectively and that can score points against all competition. Beyond that, it really doesn’t matter to me what they run.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:09 PM ^
I've never cared about style. It just has to work.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:09 PM ^
At this point, I'll take an offense that doesn't fumble on the opening drive.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:12 PM ^
I want whatever offense our players will be most successful in.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:13 PM ^
They need to choose the offense that is best suited to our O-Line. The skill players are very good, but they will not produce if the O-Line is not doing their part.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:14 PM ^
Three things:
1. Exploit of mismatches. i.e. you have 3 6’2” or taller wideouts who are extremely athletic. Just throw the ball in the air and see what happens.
2. Don’t do stuff that someone with zero knowledge of football would say “why did they do that dumb thing?”
3. If no huddle uptempo is supposedly the new thing, don’t fuck around for 35 seconds before running a play.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:14 PM ^
Fuck the RPO. Too much on the QB to read the defense and if you make the wrong decision the whole play is screwed.
Run the Air Raid. Use a ton of motion to manipulate the defense and attack the field vertically. One on one with no safety over top with Nico or Tarik, automatic back shoulder fade. Use the pass to set up the run. Mesh routes over the middle. It’s all simple and we can do it NOW.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:37 PM ^
The Air Raid guys invented the RPO and popularized it before it was cool though.
But I mean, whatever it is Lincoln Riley is doing to teach his RPO's and what Michigan does...there's a disconnect.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:15 PM ^
I like the idea behind the new offense. We just really, really suck at it. So basically I want the new scheme, but I want us to actually run it with some level of competence and with regard to what opposing defenses are doing.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:16 PM ^
I think one of the big issues with Harbaugh's Manball was the constant huddling and delay of game penalties and wasting so much game time.
I'm okay with man all if they can do without huddling. We need more possessions to score more points and keep the defense from having to save the offense.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:19 PM ^
Scheme is overrated. Implementation/execution of a given scheme is what matters. IMO, The issues M was having last year were primarily related to 2 things:
1. A convoluted play-calling system, yielding a very slow pace which became extremely problematic in end if half and when trying to come back from being down multiple scores.
2. Absence of continuity between Run/Pass.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:28 PM ^
Actually maybe we do want a Steve Snarkisian O.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:28 PM ^
Whatch'ya really want?
September 27th, 2019 at 6:49 PM ^
I’ll tell ya what I want. What I really, really want.
(Is that what we were doing?)
September 27th, 2019 at 5:30 PM ^
I would prefer an offense that was not offensive.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:32 PM ^
Big fan of Clemson, but I mean, who doesn't want Oklahoma's offense? They score a billion points a game and they plug in one transfer after another regardless of whether the guy is a pass first or run first QB without much confusion or step back.
Since I'm not sure you can get what Oklahoma has without hiring one specific dude, get me what Clemson's got and I'm happy.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:57 PM ^
Yep. Oklahoma will plug and play D'Eriq King(sp) from Houston next year and will not miss a beat.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:33 PM ^
Lloyd Carr against florida
that offense
September 27th, 2019 at 5:53 PM ^
That was actually a passing spread offense a la Stoops-era Oklahoma, a significant departure from typical Michigan football. I liked that offense too, btw.
September 27th, 2019 at 6:37 PM ^
For one afternoon, that was a gorgeous Death Machine. We would have scored 50+ if Mike Hart hadn't tried to regress entirely to the mean on career fumbles in a single afternoon.
September 27th, 2019 at 6:51 PM ^
That’s a bingo.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:34 PM ^
How has Gattis not been fired yet for telling blatant lies about his experience. Locksley was the guy. It's obvious.
September 27th, 2019 at 6:10 PM ^
I don't think either of them were "the guy". Saban has new coordinators almost every year and they all look brilliant.
September 27th, 2019 at 6:13 PM ^
The guy who lost to Temple?
September 27th, 2019 at 9:37 PM ^
The guy whose team currently has 94 total yards at halftime at home against PSU?
Jury is definitely out on Gattis but Locksley is no genius.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:43 PM ^
I want the offense that fits the personnel. Doing the exact same thing year in and year out and fitting players to scheme rather the scheme to players is a losing formula. The offense last year wasn't the worst I've seen. There just weren't enough explosive plays. A full scale scheme shift wasn't necessary, but adjusting it to take advantage of the stable of wide receivers was necessary since the old scheme severely underutilized the talent available. It was unconscionable to call equal, if not more, plays for FBs and TEs than they did for DPJ, Nico and Tarik. The 2016 offense dispersed the ball nicely to Darboh and Chesson and the current WRs are arguably more talented. Frankly, it's QB play. Shea has happy feet. They need to get him out of the pocket with bootlegs. He's not suited to fast developing plays and getting the ball out quickly. He makes better plays on the run and actually seems to make progressions better than standing in the pocket. He is not a pocket QB, even in a spread system.
September 27th, 2019 at 6:52 PM ^
Last year's passing game relied on plays that were slow developing. If Shea could just hit some quick passes, like 3 step drop and throw. Forget RPO, he can't do it very well.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:50 PM ^
I don't think there was anything wrong with the scheme last year, the problem was how we ran it. You should be able to run the same scheme and still have speed in space. Call plays faster, hike the ball faster, have more slots running crossing routes opening up the underneath stuff so we don't have our only two WRs running 30 yards downfield on 3rd and 5 while our QB takes a 7 step drop. Throw screens to playmakers. A little tweaking of how we implemented it would have probably been fine. Though with Sheas limitations, i'm not sure it would have made a difference.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:54 PM ^
An offense that isn't offensive and discombobulated would be a good start.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:54 PM ^
I'm not so sure that the problem with Harbaugh's offense was the scheme; I think a lot of the problem might have been the playcalling. The scheme doesn't dictate running too much on 1st down, running too often on running downs while passing too often on passing downs, continuing to call runs straight up the middle well after the point that you should know they're not going to work, etc.
I think it would have been interesting having someone who was universally acknowledged as a very good playcaller on the staff, and handing over that responsibility to him, while leaving the scheme (personel, sets, play desisgns, etc.) untouched.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:54 PM ^
I’d love to see quick passes where we take what the defense gives us. Not an offensive guru or anything like that but for years I’ve seen teams throw in the flats and pick up easy yardage.
Quick passing game! I’d like a series of hurry up where we look functional. Great week to work these things out because right now I Fear the Ferentz...
September 27th, 2019 at 5:57 PM ^
I’ll take what Harbaugh had but with an innovative OC willing to get the ball to his playmakers and not so damn predictable.
No slow ass play-action deep in your own territory. It was always a disaster.