Serious question: Why hasn't Narduzzi and/or Dantonio been poached to a bigger program?
You have an MSU program playing some consistently elite defense, and doing so at a program not able to attract consistently elite prospects. They've been on a pretty impressive run the past 4 years - 11-2, 11-3, 7-6 (6 losses by a combined 30 points) and now sitting at 7-1 with the top ranked defense in the country.
Seems to me like Narduzzi should be a prime head coaching candidate at a major conference team, or a DC at a top 10-15 type team and Dantonio could probably be able to climb the ladder to a traditional top 25 type team where he could recruit better and further build his resume.
I for one hope this happens sooner rather than later. What say you?
October 30th, 2013 at 11:23 PM ^
i really don't like MSU...i do agree that Dantonio gets more accomplished with less talent than anyone in the Big 10.
I am always surprised at just how good those defenses are with players that are, for the most part, not big-time recruits.
Yea...he is a sour-puss and has an un-healthy obsession with Michigan, but he is a helluva coach too.
October 30th, 2013 at 11:23 PM ^
I think the OP raises a valid question and one I've wondered about as well. I think Narduzzi is probably gone after this year - no idea where - but when it comes to Dantonio it would seem like he's a guy who will probably stay there for a while a-la Jim Tressel at OSU. He's done a fantastic job of turning the program around and making them a perenial B1G contender and he seems to like MSU and they certainly like him. And I dont see him moving to the pro's so I think he's going to be thorn in our side for quite a while.
October 30th, 2013 at 11:51 PM ^
No one outside the midwest cares about middling big or mac teams
October 30th, 2013 at 11:54 PM ^
Dantonio's personality is not a good match for a top program. He's never coached outside of the midwest, almost entirely MI and OH.
October 30th, 2013 at 11:58 PM ^
up there in age, I think the only program he would have left MSU for was Ohio
Don't forget he was at MSU in the 90's so he was pretty well established in the community already. They really like it there.
October 31st, 2013 at 12:03 AM ^
October 31st, 2013 at 12:12 AM ^
Being a good DC doesn't make you a good head coach. Especially if you don't have the personality for it.
Why do you think Bud Foster has been at Virginia Tech for a billion years?
Ever meet the guy? I have, numerous occassions. He's a straight SW Virginia have a 12-pack after the game with my huge dip in kind of guy. He doesn't give a damn about fundrasiing or being an administrator...he wants to coach football and ride his tractor and drink beer. So he's going to keep coaching that dominate D at VT until he retires.
Some guys just don't have it in them to be a HC. And for a lot of them, they're perfectly fine by it.
October 31st, 2013 at 12:43 AM ^
"...he wants to coach football and ride his tractor and drink beer."
Not that there's anyting wrong with that. :-)
You point is absolutely valid, and applies to a lot of people in a lot of professions. My employer (large multinational) is littered with people promoted above their competency. And if Bud Foster knows where he wants to be, then kudos to him.
Narduzzi may be that same kind of guy ... but my sense is he'd like to at least try the HC role if the right opportunity came along.
October 31st, 2013 at 11:40 AM ^
Not the tractor and beer, but the recognition that he's better at and can do more good in the job he has now than in the job that would be the next stop in his "natural career path."
That deserves respect, and it doesn't generally get it. You don't look for that next promotion and people start turning their nose up at your resume. Or making obscene comments about the real reason you aren't getting offers (see upthread for an example, which I hope gets nuked).
October 31st, 2013 at 7:30 AM ^
October 31st, 2013 at 6:56 PM ^
Yes, similar things to what I have "heard" (read). Being a good football coach doesnt translate to being a leader of a program. Maybe Narduzzi will surprise us and transalte - he is in his late 40s so he has a long path ahead of him, whether at MSU or elsewhere. But certain coaches are just coaches, they dont want to do all the things outside of "coaching". We'll know soon enough if Narduzzi is that type as his stock will never be higher than this year, with that schedule and moving to the same division as Ohio next year plus playing Oregon non conf and losing 6 seniors off that defense. If he doesnt move this offeseason he is the HC in waiting, personality issues or not.
October 31st, 2013 at 2:02 AM ^
October 31st, 2013 at 9:40 PM ^
October 31st, 2013 at 2:34 AM ^
I will quote Marcus Ray, "They got to the top of the Legends division by beating the bottom of the Leaders division ". I believe it is a few things that makes up Dantonio's success, especially the past five years or so. They were able to play UM and ND with the coaching issues, RR, Charlie Weis and now Hokes guys being so young. They don't play OSU every year actually its rare they play Ohio. I truely believe that if they played in the Big Ten in the 90"s he would have more of a meh record. Just like they had with George Perles, Nick Saban two very good coaches who found it very hard to compete with OSU, UM, ND, Penn State.
October 31st, 2013 at 7:19 AM ^
October 31st, 2013 at 8:51 AM ^
With conference re-alignment next season, I can see Dantonio moving on. Sparty moves into the Big Boy division and will never escape ohio again. Sparty has been doing this with smoke and mirrors and 3 star talent. Not that ratings are everything - but eventually the talent gap will show up as wins and losses.
Go Blue!
October 31st, 2013 at 9:27 PM ^
For the record, if you look at past results they actually only avoided OSU in 2009 and 2010. They played them from 2003-07, and 2011/12. Sure they lost most of them, but the FACT is that they played 8 of the last 10 years.
I hate that people here have to resort to lies to make their points. You guys do realize we lucked out by missing back to back champions Wisconsin the last two years, right? You can only play who's in front of you. The reality is they beat OSU in their down year and then lost by a point last year, AND went 3-1 vs. Wisky in that time w/ the one loss in that glorious CCG.
It's fine to hate Sparty...we all do. but lets keep the facts straight.
October 31st, 2013 at 3:01 AM ^
If I were Narduzzi, I'd be pretty frustrated being at MSU for 3 reasons:
1. The BCS loves to snub MSU.
2.Despite having a greate defense for 4 years now, they can't outrecruit anyone on that side of the ball.
3. He's clearly outperforming his counterpart (OC), at least for the last season and a half.
I wonder if those will factor into his decision at the end of the year.
October 31st, 2013 at 7:00 PM ^
2.Despite having a greate defense for 4 years now, they can't outrecruit anyone on that side of the ball.
Why would you care about point #2? He has taken a 2 star recruit and turned him into a stud CB in his sophomore year (Waynes). SOMEONE (Dantonio or Narduzzi) is able to find kids that fit their system and coach them up. Everyone here is obsessed with stars, I'd rather have a stud player on my field at the college level who has 1 or 2 or 3 stars. See Jake Ryan. They can identify those players unlike most schools - for their defense at least. I doubt he is frustrated he is not on Hand when the guy can turn 2 stars into potential All Big 10 players - Calhoun was a 3 star too. Dont you wish we had that type of defense or do you prefer all our stars on defense instead?
Your other 2 points most likely are annoying but they had back to back 11 win seasons in 2010 and 2011 so I am sure he is not crying over too much beer over point #3.
October 31st, 2013 at 5:02 AM ^
October 31st, 2013 at 8:27 AM ^
October 31st, 2013 at 8:32 AM ^
There's a Freep article today about Narduzzi. He says he's waiting for the right HC job.
October 31st, 2013 at 9:05 AM ^
Those defensive stats won't look too good when they have to live in a world with Michigan, OSU and PSU every year. Oh and they go to Oregon next year. Yeah, the time to go is now.
October 31st, 2013 at 11:54 AM ^
I think he needs to leave because they are losing a bunch of defensive talent after this season, and while they'll be solid again next year, this is, what, the third straight year they've had a top-10 defense? Hard to beat that stretch.
October 31st, 2013 at 9:31 AM ^
I believe Mr Miggle is no to something. Dantonio probably has a lot of ties and a big network in Ohio. If a player slips under the radar but has some talent to play, he has a good shot at picking them up. If Dantonio took a job in another region his pipeline of over achievers might dry up as there is a block of players who want to stay in region.
As pointed by others Dantonio is not a great personality. It may be he has to depend on a group of regional recuits whose best Div1 offer might be MSU. If he has to beat out a equivalent programs for a recruits attention he might not do so well.
Just a theory.
October 31st, 2013 at 10:15 AM ^
October 31st, 2013 at 10:20 AM ^
And they still haven't been able to win it. He doesn't recruit well and he doesn't scheme that well.
They have beaten one team with a winning record this year. Last year they went 7-6 and four of those wins were by less than 4 points. His two great seasons came because Michigan and Ohio were going through a coaching transition in 2011 and they missed Ohio in 2010.
If you're going to hire a DC you'd go with Wilcox at Washington or Venables at Clemson.
October 31st, 2013 at 10:04 AM ^
Dantonio's getting a little old for a big program to hire, and his performance has been up and down. He had the excellent two-year run in 2010-11 but the rest of his tenure at MSU is more good than great. He'll probably stay there until he retires.
Narduzzi will probably get a head job soon.
October 31st, 2013 at 11:49 AM ^
"Narduzzi will probably get a head job soon."
That is some serious inside info.
October 31st, 2013 at 10:27 AM ^
...in 2011. And if Urbz pulls a Florida and leaves in a couple years, that's the one job that he'd 100% leave EL for. Other than that, though, it's hard to see what program would both interest him and have interest in him. (I guess it's possible an SEC school looking for the next Nick Saban might, but remember that LSU was in the pits when they hired Saban and Saban actually only had two 10+ seasons there anyways.)
October 31st, 2013 at 11:42 AM ^
I've answered this question a few times before. My answer is getting stale now since all three insights are several years old now. They are:
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I saw him speak at a Michigan coaches clinic in West Bloomfield. Moreso than Rich Rod, he is, shall we say, a bit awkward when speaking to non-football people. He's a fine coordinator but to be head coach means being the face of a program, and he is never going to be a face guy.
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I mentioned that impression to a family friend who is a big-time MSU donor and friend of Hollis (whom I have a lot of respect for, minus his twitter problem. Hollis is one of a dying breed of ADs who think athletic departments are there to serve student athletes.) Anyway he confirmed that Narduzzi isn't comfortable being the main man, and while he used to consider being a small school head coach, leaping into a job like Pittsburgh (now you have dated this conversation) would be setting him up to fail.
- I got to sit next to (fmr MSU LB) Chris Nelson for a few hours before a transatlantic flight and asked him whether Narduzzi would be an H.C. He said one day but that he doubts it will be soon, and that Dantonio does so much of the defensive coaching it wouldn't really make sense to split the pair up. Narduzzi is a great motivator for the kids but the schemes are all Dantonio's. Conversely, Dantonio is a cold and (highly) respected-more-than-liked figure to the players. Anyway Narduzzi is maximized in his current role. If he took an H.C. job somewhere they'd expect the Michigan State defense by Year Two or Three and he wouldn't be able to deliver like that.
October 31st, 2013 at 11:58 AM ^
Is Narduzzi really that much less awkward than a bunch of other HCs out there? I mean, put him on some low-level MAC-type team and I could see him working decently. Having not met the man, I'm not sure how bad it would be.
And do you see him possibly going to a higher-profile DC position either in CFB or the pros? He may be happy in EL, but I just wonder why he hasn't given it a shot somewhere else.
October 31st, 2013 at 12:10 PM ^
Well all these conversations took place a couple of years ago when the Pitt and Arizona etc. jobs were open. He might take a MAC job, but why go there when he had BCS offers? The right fit is probably a BCS school with a non-judgmental fanbase and a local media willing to paper his mistakes, but not in the SEC (he doesn't want to play dirty).
Wisconsin would be more like it. Can recruit the areas he knows, friendly media and students, an AD in Alvarez who will get him what he wants, and will basically have the easy half of the Big Ten to himself.
Purdue is a possibility.
Anyway, a higher-profile D.C. job than MSU is the same answer as the MAC: he's graduated past that opportunity. He's got a good situation at MSU where he's maximized, and there are few better places to be to land a Big Ten head coaching job--if that's his ambition--than running the best defense in the country with MSU's inherent disadvantages.
October 31st, 2013 at 12:54 PM ^
I don't think Wisconsin is quite as non-judgmental as it once was. They now expect B1G championships and Rose Bowl victories. Bielema was never all that popular there despite actually having one of the best records of any coach in their history.
October 31st, 2013 at 7:04 PM ^
Seth to be fair, saban is an awkward and not socially awesome guy either. I am not comparing either of these guys to the best coach in CFB but just saying if you TRULY are a bad ass as a coach these are things that can be overcome. I say this even as I noted earlier I have read similar things about Narduzzi elsewhere. And with Dantonio being a DC at heart we will never know how much is Dantonio and how much is Narduzzi until/unless they split. My feel is MSU will be fine on defense with or without Narduzzi as it's Dantonio's defense at heart.
November 1st, 2013 at 3:13 PM ^
Purdue makes sense, and I agree that he probably has passed the college DC threshhold except, I guess, at a school where he would be a clear replacement when the HC leaves.
With the BCS offers, maybe he didn't like them and figured he could do better, only to learn that wasn't the case? It wouldn't be the first time a coach overvalued himself in the market. But I agree at this point putting a great defense on the field for MSU is a major accomplishment, but it is virtually impossible for him to do so next year, so he might want to strike while the iron is hot.
October 31st, 2013 at 12:17 PM ^
In reality, Dantonio is not head coach material. He's not a personable guy which belies his poor recruiting performance despite having some strong seasons under his belt. All he's really managed to do is keep the level of performance of MSU consistent while the rest of the league has slipped over the past 5 or 6 years, which makes the program seem artificially stronger than it actually is.
But Ohio State is going to continue to recruit and play at an elite level (and MSU won't be able to dodge them anymore after this season). Michigan is building itself to be on par with OSU. Penn State ultimately will probably do the same. Nebraska also has the potential to be in this strata as well. As the Big Ten elite gets their acts together, MSU is going to start to look more and more like the MSU of old and it should be fun to see how the narrative out of East Lansing suddenly turns into one of loathing for Dantonio.
Comparing Dantonio's tenure to what Izzo has accomplished, the contrast is stark. Izzo shows how a good coach can take any program and work it into being elite. Dantonio is not that guy.
October 31st, 2013 at 3:49 PM ^
Dantonio is certainly head coach material.
Dantonio's winning percentage through 2012 at MSU is .645. His all time winning percentage is .623. His record at MSU is better than some very good coaches, like Gary Pinkel, Mike Leach, Al Golden, Kirk Ferentz, Rich Rod, Art Briles, Pat Fitzgerald, etc.
That's significantly better than Hoke, whose winning percentage all time is .557,though it is .730 at Michigan.
So far, Hoke's Michigan record is inching toward Les Miles' .732; of course it's hard to predict whether he'll break the .800 barrier.
Urban Meyer's record all-time is .844, and of course it is 1.0 at OSU. He is clearly elite.
So if you want to talk about being a good coach, Dantonio is a very good coach, who has had some excellent years in the league.
Hoke is an excellent coach so far in the league.
Bo's record at Michigan was .795, part of that in an era when ties were allowed (he had 5), and that may affect winning percentages compared with more recent coaches who must win or lose, no ties.
The current elite coaches in FBS have .800 or better records. I think we may be in an era of even more dominant teams at the top.
October 31st, 2013 at 5:10 PM ^
Hoke is .758 at Michigan (25-8).
October 31st, 2013 at 10:01 PM ^
I was not counting 2013 yet for Hoke or MD, as the season is incomplete. If you want to count 2013, Dantonio's numbers go up, too.
October 31st, 2013 at 2:23 PM ^
I still think that Dantonio is riding the wave of recruiting success that RR caused. When Carr recruited Michigan it was for two reasons, one was because of a belief that local boys would play harder because they grew up watching, and rooting for the wolverines, but he also knew that if they were playing for Michigan they weren't playing for Sparty or the Bucks. RR never got that and so a lot of kids that are now juniors and seniors on that team are on that team because RR never offered them. Granted kids like Gholston and Cousins were never going to go to Michigan because they grew up hating us but I would venture to guess that a lot of these kids would have been blue had we hired Hoke 6 years ago instead of RR. I think in the next 2 years, MSU will be back to being a 7 win school every year. All of that being said, yes I do believe that MD is the best thing that has happened to MSU since Saban.
October 31st, 2013 at 4:09 PM ^
Do you think MSU will fade back to mediocrity despite the recruiting classes trending in an upward direction?
2009: #37
2010: #32 (the heralded Gholston/Bullough/Lewis class)
2011: #27
2012: #37
2013 so far: #18
I think Dantonio has proved in 6 years that he doesn't need very highly ranked classes to achieve success.
October 31st, 2013 at 4:43 PM ^
October 31st, 2013 at 4:45 PM ^
Says the guy with -100k points and a disturbing avatar.
October 31st, 2013 at 6:13 PM ^
Not all who post here are Leaders and Best, that's for sure. Jeepers.
MSU was in the toilet when Dantonio arrived. He whipped what little he had into immediate shape, has consistently recruited decently, and has an unparalleled record in finding diamonds in the rough and developing talent. Oh yeah, and MSU has completely shaken the lack of mental fortitude label. Pre-Dantonio they'd follow up a big win with an embarrassing defeat.
Offensive development has been a problem post-Cousins, but this is an established top-20 program now. A bad year is 7-6. I don't think State is going away anytime soon.
October 31st, 2013 at 4:58 PM ^
October 31st, 2013 at 5:14 PM ^
After the South desegregated in the late 1960s, MSU (which had recruited the South heavily) descended into mediocrity and has never been consistently good. It's not just been a 20-year thing, it's been a 45-year thing. Every once in a while, they've had a good team, like in 1987 and 1999. They had a nice run in 2010-11 and are 7-1 now, but I doubt they keep it up. Now that they will be in the same division as Michigan, Ohio and PSU (which will be back once the restrictions are over), the jig is probably going to be up.
October 31st, 2013 at 5:42 PM ^
Maybe he's waiting to replace Saban.
October 31st, 2013 at 6:44 PM ^
People don't want to hear it but MSU is an "upper middle class" team in a BCS conference. There are only so many opportunities to upgrade. What did our buddy from Wisconsin do? He went from an upper middle class / lower top class (you can make the arguement easily Wiscy has been better than UM the past decade) to take a purely middle class SEC team and will get beaten over the head year over year with 7-8 wins most years. Is that fun or worth the extra money? MSU recruits in the 20s to 30s most years and finishes in the polls in the 15th to 25th slot most years - by definition there will be 10 -15 opening that might be attractive and those teams usually dont have coaching openings. So there are only so many opportunities.
As for Narduzzi I believe he is the 2nd highest paid defensive coordinator in the conference after Mattison. Going to a MAC school is a death shot for most coaches - see Treadwell and Enos from MSU. You have to win and win fast (i.e. Brian Kelly) nowadays and get the heck out of a MAC school in most cases to go to a "Cincy" type situation and then follow that path. He has about 5-7 schools he could go be a DC at that are a major upgrade and not lateral move (texas for example) and about 30 schools to go be a HC at. There are only so many opportunities. The other thing I hear about Narduzzi is he is a manic football coach but not a people person. That is fine in the NFL (see NE Patriots) but not so great at college HC level - you need to be somewhat of a gladhandler at kiss people's butt - people like alumni. You need to enjoy that crap and also go out and enjoy the recruiting trail where unless you are in a few schools that sell themselves have to kiss butt. It is fine for a coordinator but not a HC in college. Only so many people are made out for that, no matter how their football coaching skills are at.
p.s I cant speak for the OP but I am seeing this type of comment on different message boards. To me it speaks to a portion of the UM fan base who has envy and wants Dantonio gone because they are getting sick of seeing teams that match up well with UM. They want the old days when UM won 7-8 out of 10 from MSU and MSU did Sparty stuff like lose to CMU a lot. So they are wishing someone comes and takes Dantonio away and we return to the era of John L Smith and Bobby Williams. I dont think Dantonio is going anywhere - this is his last stop and also he knows the Midwest. He friggin hates Michigan with a passion and the only 2 places he can do that are MSU or OSU. Is he going to go to "mid level Pac 12" team or "mid level SEC" team and lose his recruiting bedrock in the Midwest? No. And specific to USC - do you see Mark frigging Dantonio in Hollywood? Cmon man.