Saban talks paying for unproven players
Title is a synopsis of the overall topic. In a recent interview, he talks about how a player's coach came asking for 800k as well as a transfer who wanted 500k and the players GF to be accepted to the law school. Assuming this is real, it's an interesting take by Saban. He's stood out in the last year for throwing shade at Fisher calling out the buy a recruiting class going on. Seems he's a little more 'old school' than others. Wonder if his stance will take a broader hold in the sport. This seems to align with what Michigan has been saying.
https://www.al.com/alabamafootball/2023/01/nick-saban-speculates-on-future-of-nil-details-players-13-million-request.html
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:36 PM ^
Saban is motivated purely by self interest. He knows an $800K freshman isn't going to take his coaching well.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:45 PM ^
I don't much like Saban. But here I agree with him. Regardless of his motivations.
The NFL collectively bargained a set amount of money that can be made on first contracts. Same argument Saban embraces. Pay for performance.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:00 PM ^
I don't understand why people don't like Saban, other than sour grapes. He was quite honest when he said left MSU because the spotlight shone too brightly in Ann Arbor and was too hard to overcome that shadow in building a program. He could have thrown shade and he didn't.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:35 PM ^
Because he's a hypocrite. He wants a cap on endorsement deals (which is what NIL is supposed to essentially be), yet I don't think he'd ever be in favor of an outside force capping his endorsement capabilities.
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:35 PM ^
And the problem is people who think it’s the same thing. The whole point was paying for “proven” players.
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:05 PM ^
Constant shameless politicking for playoffs. Voting Alabama #2 in end of the year poll speaks volumes about him. Many reasons to dislike him.
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:09 PM ^
As he was in discussions with Miami about leaving LSU, Saban as I recall uttered some pretty strong denials that those talks were going on. Leaving some wiggle room or at least a "no comment" would have been uncomfortable, but at least you're not lying. That was quite a while ago, but I remember thinking that didn't show much integrity.
Nobody here has been thrilled with Harbaugh talking with the NFL, but I haven't seen him outright lie about it.
February 2nd, 2023 at 4:02 PM ^
He did it about leaving Miami for Bama as well.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:41 PM ^
Rookies can make more money that veterans so you are still paying unproven guys on potential rather production.
And that negotiation required a body who could negotiate on behalf of players so they were getting value in return for giving up no limits on what was being offered. So unless Saban is also advocating for college football players to be able to form a union and collectively bargain what he is arguing for is just self interest to make his job easier
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:40 PM ^
so you are still paying unproven guys on potential rather production
saying a high schooler is unproven is very different than someone who played major D1 football for 2 years. Let’s get rid of the NFL minimum age(years) requirement and see how your statement would hold up.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:50 PM ^
Not quite the same. No collective bargain on how much an NFL player can get from Nike.
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:16 PM ^
I also agree with Saban and Harbaugh has had the same stance for a while. Someone needs to get a handle on NIL. It should be some kind of structure pay scale a little like the NFL for rookies. An incoming freshman can only make so much money and they can get increases each year they play. It’s the only way to keep a level playing field
February 2nd, 2023 at 5:31 PM ^
Agreed. Why the fuck does it matter what Saban’s motivations are if he’s in the right side of the argument?
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:48 PM ^
But he's also one of the only CFB coaches with a sufficiently secure job to turn away talent on principle like that. Now I don't think it's unprincipled to pay unproven players, but I do agree with the notion that it's economically unwise. I think the market will stabilize in a few years to a point where NIL payment will more closely align to actual on-field production.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:02 PM ^
I highly doubt he would turn away talent on principle. He knows he had a big advantage with the old system and wants everyone to stay as close to that as possible.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:24 PM ^
Assuming his anecdote is true, that's exactly what he did though. A HS kid asked for 800k, and he told them to look elsewhere. "You're not worth $800k until you prove it on the field" is a kind of principle. Or else, Saban thought he could get a comparably-talented HS player for less money, and made that decision.
Either way, the point as I see it is that some of these programs seem to have confused "spending more money" with "trying harder." I think it's generally a good thing for coaches and programs have lines on what players are worth, because absent real regulation, that's going to be the only way to bring rationality to the market.
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:08 PM ^
One calls it a principle, another calls it a shrewd business decision, especially for Saban who can get top notch talent cheaper
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:32 PM ^
Let's not act like Bama hasn't been buying players in the past. He's standing on his high horse now because in the past he didn't have to pay for a whole class, but that's no longer the case. He signed the most 5 stars in the country, again. They are paying players, it's just on his terms, not some incoming freshman.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:42 PM ^
Absolutely. My point is that there are coaches out there who are CLEARLY paying players on the players' terms, and that's why the NIL market right now is so broken. Once the upper limits of value of different positions and skills become known to the market, it'll start to become a lot more predictable. Until then you have these hilarious situations like TAMU paying top dollar to go 5-7.
In other words, Saban wasn't against paying that kid, it was against paying him 800k specifically. Saban's been around the bag long enough that he probably figured "you're worth 200k, 250k tops until you're good enough to start," and actually told the kid that.
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:09 PM ^
My take as well
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:45 PM ^
Unproven player....hmmm...interesting concept. I would agree that after college, the NFL has a better idea of a player's capability than colleges get from players coming from high school, but conceptually, it is not different, just a different confidence level.
NIL has created a different landscape. All it takes is a couple of wealthy boosters and a poor team can buy lots of talent. The only way I see this changing is if the P-5 conferences form an alliance and create a union such as the NFLPA with a salary schedule. Good luck with that.
Football at a college level has been a big money sport for a while. The only thing that has changed is that now the players have a chance to share revenue from the entertainment they were providing. Amateur athletics, in major sports, is over. While you have the occasional outlier, if you are not willing to spend at the front end, your odds of being a champion are slim at best.
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:04 PM ^
Keep in mind that Saban has seen a LOT of 4/5 star guys who never made the 2 deep and transferred out. I've talked to a couple former Bama players and they have said there are some absolute DUDES who never sniff the field and would be all-conference at most other places. Imagine if every 5 star was getting the $$ amounts that are thrown around? Saban, as self-involved as he is, is probably right about this one.
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:24 PM ^
So instead of leaving and becoming all conference and a chance to make money in the NFL, they sat at Bama?
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:28 PM ^
They guy who's been around the bag the longest, and used the bag most successfully, is the guy who knows the value of a dollar (or 800k of them) better than anyone else.
February 2nd, 2023 at 8:15 PM ^
Case in point: our very own Eyabi Okie. Number three ranked player in his class, highest ranked player in Bama's class that year. Showed some promise as a freshman but couldn't stay on the team. Imagine if he would have walked in the door at Bama with $1,000,000 plus in his pocket. That would have been a farce
February 3rd, 2023 at 5:57 PM ^
It is strange whenever someone uses self interest as a pejorative. In my life I have met exactly zero people not motivated by self interest. Should Saban make decisions based on what is best for Kirby Smart?
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:37 PM ^
I wonder how much his old school words match up with the reality of pay-for-play at Bama. His takes about paying players before NIL was legit didn't align with reality.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:37 PM ^
the only thing Saban has a problem with is other schools bringing the bag which makes things more expensive for Alabama. Plain and simple.
February 2nd, 2023 at 6:14 PM ^
That's what this all boils down to. No old top dog likes it when the playing field is leveled.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:38 PM ^
The whole thing is the Wild West. Ordinarily, I’m a “less regulation is best” kind of guy, but NIL needs something in place sooner rather than later.
Get off my lawn, I don’t like it.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:51 PM ^
The world doesn't work without regulation or you end up with a king and everyone else is a slave or a courtier. Too much regulation and you end up with a Dictator and you're waiting in line for bread. The world works best with the right amount of regulation. The only way to figure that out is like working a shower that runs hot or cold. You turn it up and wait to see if it gets too hot. You turn it down and you wait to see if it gets too cold. Anybody who says they know the right amount is a liar.
Right now NIL and college football need more regulation.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:58 PM ^
I think current state and future state (however unsettled) need to be compared to past state (a handful of "bag" schools getting a disproportionate number of good players because most schools were queasy about high levels of cheating). I'll pass on past state, thanks.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:38 PM ^
Meh, lol.
Saban just upset that prices have gone up with NIL now that every team in the market. Also annoyed that they need to pay ongoing salaries, not just signing bonus to recruits.
Been bagging for years, now whining because Bama being out SEC'ed by UGA. He didn't just pull in a top recruiting class because of BAMA and Saban!
They paying, despite his whining. His sweetheart gig of competing in an unequal playing field is dying, and he knows it.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:39 PM ^
I don't believe anything he is saying in terms of it stopping his recruiting a player. Check the team recruiting rankings, see how many 5* and 4* players Alabama has gotten, and tell me he or his team isn't paying those players what they are asking for. Saban is doing this to appease someone, but hasn't stopped him for a minute from doing what he needs to do to get the top guys.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:52 PM ^
Come on, it’s because of the new extravagant NIL complex they’re building at Bama! They’re doing everything legal.
/s
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:40 PM ^
Nick Saban molests ferrets in his spare time.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:50 PM ^
As if Ryan Day doesn't have enough to worry about.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:55 PM ^
....have you spoken to the AFLAC duck yet?
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:43 PM ^
He gets a natural high off the ferret-moans
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:49 PM ^
I love the hypocrisy of Saban. While I agree with this comment specifically, he never mentioned pay for play when it was illegal and BAMA players were flaunting their money and expensive cars over the internet years ago. It’s his narrative since ESPN and co. give him the crown of CFB.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:01 PM ^
If you read between the lines, he pays for performance - i.e. his established players, he doesn't want to pay for potential - i.e. recruits.
February 2nd, 2023 at 1:55 PM ^
That's rich of you nic satan..... but do you remember this?
"Certain positions, probably, enhance opportunities to create value, like quarterback, and our quarterback (Young) already has approached ungodly numbers — I'm not going to say what they are — and he hasn't even played yet. Hasn't even started," Saban said at the Texas High School Coaches Association's annual convention on Tuesday. "... It’s almost seven figures. And it's like, the guy hasn't even played yet. But that's because of our brand."
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:07 PM ^
Wasn't Saban talking retirement for 15 minutes earlier this year? I thought that was a thing.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:22 PM ^
Saban is an old school coach, he liked it when his school and just a handful of others had a monopoly on simply buying all the best amateur players every year. It ruins the integrity of the game when he has to bid for them.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:29 PM ^
A few years back (pre-NIL) an "insider" within the college football circles was talking about recruiting across the US. When Bama became the huge football factory, they started to move away from dropping bags on players. Players knew if they wanted to win, and wanted to go to the NFL, they should go to Alabama. I remember reading that bags were probably given, but not nearly as often (or as much) as fans liked to claim. The same was said about Clemson when they were on their rise. I cant remember where I read this? Maybe it was on here and complete bull...
Now whether the bags were given to the players once they enrolled, that was a different story. Saban has been really outspoken about paying for players. Is this because he never condoned it, or because he doesnt want the playing field to even out? If it comes out that they are indeed paying high dollar for recruits, he will look pretty bad.
February 2nd, 2023 at 4:43 PM ^
It sounds a bit like those CEOs who were aghast that their CFO was cooking the books without them knowing. For 10 years!
The most likely explanation is that Saban never wanted other programs to be able to use the same approach as Bama.
So he was not happy with Harbaugh going into SEC country to do satellite camps! And now he doesn't want to get in a bidding war with other schools.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:46 PM ^
Didn't he offer over a million for Bryce Young to come to Bama? Seems hypocritical.
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:53 PM ^
I don't see it as hypocrisy. Saban knows what players are worth. Bryce Young ended up being a starting QB and Heisman winner. This kid asking for 800k - who knows? But my read is that Saban evaluated that kid as being not worth 800k. He probably evaluated Young as being worth more than 800k.
I think Saban's position is "kids should be paid to the value of their current and projected contributions." One kid received a dump truck of cash and turned out to be worth it. The other kid asked for a truck full of cash and Saban counter-offered with a suitcase full of cash. Kid walked because Ole Miss or Miami offered him the truck, and that's fine. That's how markets are supposed to work.
February 2nd, 2023 at 2:54 PM ^
"Seems he's a little more 'old school' than others."
Man if you believe that BS I've got a bridge to sell ya.
Saban believes in one thing: a system that advantages him. If there is a new system that might not, Saban does not believe in it. It is simple.
February 2nd, 2023 at 3:11 PM ^
Remember when Saban was against the hurry-up offense, because he said it increased the risk of injury despite there being no data to support that claim? In fact, he was having trouble defending it. He has always put forward his own self-serving agenda disguised as something that would be better for the players and/or the game.