RPO bad play design or wrong route?
Wisconsin is in man coverage with no free safety. Michigan runs inside zone with Bell running a 5 step slant. The safety takes a few steps up, Shea makes the correct read but throws the ball behind Bell.
If you look at the opposite side you see both WR's running slants as well. Nico actually almost ends up running into Bell and brings his defender right to where we want to throw the ball. I wonder if this is why Shea ended up throwing in behind Bell. This concept makes no sense to me. Why would we run Nico on a slant into the same spot as Bell, was it a wrong route? If Nico runs an out or a corner, his DB runs with him and Shea has much more room to lead Bell and this should be a TD.
Plays like this make me wonder what the hell we are doing on offense, and if Gattis has any business being an offensive cordinator.
Here is an example of what the RPO should look like with the backside slot running an out
September 27th, 2019 at 2:20 PM ^
Rudock largely turned in a similar performance to his previous year at Iowa with slightly elevated attempts.
September 27th, 2019 at 9:45 AM ^
It’s almost as if the video games we played for 10 years were right the whole time.
September 27th, 2019 at 9:51 AM ^
And what did they say? I just bought Madden 16 a few weeks ago--first football video game in a decade for me, who is old (and also very cheap).
September 27th, 2019 at 9:48 AM ^
That looks like an RPS win for the defense combined with a failure to go through a progression by Shea. There are 9 defenders left of the right hash. The safety to the top of the screen sits in a zone that takes the slant away until Nico runs into Bell's route and Bell's DB has time to break the pass up. Meanwhile Eubanks is open and there's only one defender that's even on his side of the field.
But I don't know what you are supposed to do if they use 9 defenders to fuck both of your RPO reads. Maybe expecting Shea to get his head around to Eubanks in time to throw it to him is too much, so the defense just wins in that situation.
September 27th, 2019 at 9:59 AM ^
UFR on this play agrees it's an RPS issue:
Pull here maybe a little dubious since there’s a safety sitting in the slant area. That guy does M a favor by vacating for no apparent reason. Ball is way behind Bell and PBUd. (IN, 0, RPO, RPS -1).
September 27th, 2019 at 10:04 AM ^
By design, because the RPO leaves the DE unblocked, the QB has to get the ball out fast and doesn't have time to go through a progression. The ball has to get out fast.
To me, it looks like Nico ran the wrong route.
September 27th, 2019 at 9:58 AM ^
To me that looked like a "throw it to Nico" deal, Shea just seems to be locked on to Bell.
September 27th, 2019 at 10:01 AM ^
I'm not sure what happened here, but I'm pretty sure that Gattis sucks. We can't even run the goddamn ball!
Harbaugh should take the offense back immediately. If Gattis doesn't like it, tough shit. Quit.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:13 AM ^
I am of the opinion that you have to play it out this season. You need to give Gattis the ability to run his offense and let the offense grow over the course of a season. Whenever you install a new offense, there will always be bumps and bruises. Guys are still figuring it out. It most definitely shouldn't look this bad, but it will improve. How much it improves will tell whether or not Gattis should stick around for next year.
If it doesn't work, we are really hurting ourselves and the future of the program. We really need to hope it gets fixed or there will be damage to the offense felt for the next few years - both in recruiting and offense implementation. You can't keep on teaching new offensive or defensive playbooks every year and expect it to not have a negative effect on productivity.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:35 AM ^
Normally I would agree, but we seem to have thrown the baby out with the bath water. We should have kept what worked well last year and built on it. Now, it looks like we can't do anything well.
If the QB is hurt / blind, at least we used to have a run game to fall back on. That won't beat OSU, but it would suffice for almost every other team on the schedule.
September 27th, 2019 at 10:05 AM ^
For the uninitiated, why is the RB squirting out to leave the DE unblocked? If the play is designed to make the ball come out quickly (i.e. no time to get to the RB in the progression), why even let him go? Is it just to put it out there in case the RB is the first read in a variant of this play?
September 27th, 2019 at 10:36 AM ^
Your post made me just realize I have an irrational disgust for the word “squirting” used in casual conversation.
September 27th, 2019 at 12:01 PM ^
I think I understand now that it was the run part of the option? If so, is the decision to throw supposed to be pure pre-snap? I have a long way to go before I understand.
September 27th, 2019 at 10:07 AM ^
Looks like the defender knew it was a pass the whole time. He won that rep, could have been an interception.
September 27th, 2019 at 10:08 AM ^
This is kinda of a strawman example because they are running two different defenses. Wisconsin is in a 4 - 3 and the other team is running a 3 - 3 - 5 stack. Wisconsin's defense is way more disciplined then this other teams. The safety is frozen in both defenses, but Bell is running a crossing route and the other receiver is running a post. If Bell runs a post Shea can throw it over the top. The DE is non existent in the other teams defense. You have to consider down and distance also. Michigan is in a 3rd and 10, the other team is in a 2nd and 10. Michigan is in bad field position, on their side of the 50, the other team can attack because they are on the positive side of the 50 yard line. Bad example.
September 27th, 2019 at 10:46 AM ^
Both WR run 5 step posts, Bell's post is just a little fatter then the other WR's. Also the 4-3 and 3-3-5 don't matter, both teams essentially have 7 men in the box. You can clearly run this play against both. The read is the safety to the single WR side, if he sits or comes up you pull and throw the post. The difference is Michigan clogged up the throwing lane by running Nico on a slant, the other team ran an out and didn't clog up the throwing lane. Also Michigan was 1st and 10, not 3rd and 10
September 27th, 2019 at 11:11 AM ^
Dude either way, it's a bad read by Shea. You don't even give him the run option in your scenario. Look at the video I posted. They have 2 receivers in the same area on another play. If I were guessing I would say Nico is wrong here, but again, Shea made a bad read.
September 27th, 2019 at 10:23 AM ^
This kinda looks like one of the plays OSU killed us with last year. Only difference is, when we run it, we look like a bunch of clueless slapdicks.
September 27th, 2019 at 10:34 AM ^
Maybe Gattis figures the only way that Shea can find his receivers is if he puts them all in the same place.
September 27th, 2019 at 10:48 AM ^
Excellent! Plus one. Wish it could be more.
September 27th, 2019 at 10:35 AM ^
I'll take a shot at this even though I'm a novice to RPO's (and pretty much everything else).
First, just prior to the snap, who is the QB optioning? Usually its a LB (that could be the stand up end at the far end of the line). He crashes, but just prior to the snap the CB drops back and the safety steps up right into the lane that the pass is to be thrown into.
Shea's hesitates briefly and the pass is a little late because of the action of the safety; Shea has to wait for the WR to clear past and beyond the safety to give Shea a throwing lane.
I think this was a defense designed to mess with the RPO (and maybe get a pick off for the safety is the QB is not alert) and was an RPS win for Wisconsin.
September 27th, 2019 at 10:46 AM ^
First off none of Sheas fakes or passes are that smooth for whatever reason. He’s just not graceful enough and his feet are to choppy to be that quick with the ball.
September 27th, 2019 at 10:50 AM ^
Thrown to the wrong guy. The Linebackers are sitting on the slants.
Ball should have gone to Eubanks.
September 27th, 2019 at 10:54 AM ^
Dont have time to go through a full progression on an RPO. The unblocked DE forces the QB to get the ball out quick, plus the O-Line will get downfield if Shea holds onto the ball too long. Bell was open, the throw was just made tougher bc of the slant by Nico. Not sure if that was a wrong route or terrible play design.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:34 AM ^
Correct. Patterson can't go through the whole progression.
I'm a "count the box" guy, though. There are six guys in the box, and you have six blockers. Block them with your six, and you can read an extra guy. Run the dang ball.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:44 AM ^
Exactly, and you get 3 - 5 yds on the play. Turner was surprised he didn't get the ball.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:00 AM ^
Maybe he was doing a no look pass to Collins and Bell got in the way....
September 27th, 2019 at 11:00 AM ^
It looks to me that if Nico runs his route more shallow, then it would free Bell up over top, or you may possibly have Nico open around the 31-32 yard line. Also-yes Nico running an out helps clear out the middle, but in my opinion its easier for Shea to hit Nico as a 2nd option on the shallow across then on an out from the opposite hash.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:04 AM ^
Not enough time to get to a second option on an RPO. The DE is unblocked, which means Shea has to get rid of the ball fast, also holding on the the ball allows the O-Line to get downfield which is obviously a penalty.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:27 AM ^
This is when Shea should be releasing, and if Nico runs a very shallow across he would be crossing the officials face at this point. So now Shea has 2 options.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:33 AM ^
Now that I think about it. Why isnt Nico lined up where Eubanks is, and Sainristil lined up where Nico is. I don't understand what we accomplish by lining our TE split out every play.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:06 AM ^
THE PROBLEM WITH MICHIGAN IS THE QUARTERBACK.
It is simple. Shea is leaving TD plays all over the field and is not converting. He flat out sucks and needs to be replaced. When a team has a solid QB who makes plays, it brings the entire team up...they play harder on both sides of the ball when they have a QB who can keep them in the game.
If Shea had hit 3 of those for TDs that were wide open vs. Wisconsin...it would be a totally different game....and you know it!
Its no secret that Harbaugh has had his greatest successes as a coach when he has had a good QB. Andrew Luck at Stanford. Alex Smith / Kaepernick for the 2-3 years that they played well in SF.
Harbaugh has not had good QB play since he has been at Michigan, save for a few games which Ruddock put together his first year, and Shea last year vs. bad opponents.
The other problem is that Dylan is very inexperienced and seems to be a China Doll in terms of staying healthy.
It all starts at the QB position and ends there. Shea is shakey and bad.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:21 AM ^
Having a QB that doesn't lock in on a WR pre-snap would solve a lot of our problems.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:29 AM ^
As others have mentioned on this particular play the qb has to lock on as he does not have time to go through multiple reads with the unblocked end. Not saying that is not an issue with Patterson right now, but it really doesn't apply to this play. Someone ran the wrong route or this play design sucks because you should not have two guys running a route into the same area like that. However I do agree with the people saying he should have handed it off cause the end did not crash.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:37 AM ^
It doesn't seem efficient to ONLY have one WR option in my opinion. I know that he doesn't have time to be scanning the entire field, but if you can give him a 2nd option right in his line of site, most QBs can quickly pick one. Hell Shea holds on to this ball long enough to move on to another WR,lol.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:26 AM ^
But Harbaugh is the QB guru he will fix it
September 27th, 2019 at 12:31 PM ^
Please don't base McCaffrey's so-called injury prone nature on the fact that he was concussed on an atrocious illegal hit. No other player would've walked away from that unscathed.
September 27th, 2019 at 12:55 PM ^
This is true, that was legit one of the most dirty hits I have ever seen. McCaffrey is lucky he wasn't paralyzed honestly, with where he was hit.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:58 PM ^
His broken collarbone last year is alarming since QBs get hit up in that area, and fall on shoulders all the time. Also he is very slight in build. Hope he stays healthy for the next 2 years.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:25 AM ^
Bad read by the QB
September 27th, 2019 at 11:28 AM ^
Yeah, we’ve got issues, but you are making wide claims after “analyzing” one play.
September 27th, 2019 at 11:51 AM ^
Couldn't Shea have waited a little bit for Bell to get out of Nico and his defender's path? It works on Madden anyway
September 27th, 2019 at 12:04 PM ^
At least Michigan can defend their OWN slant route.
September 27th, 2019 at 12:19 PM ^
Interesting that there is no outside movement as there typically is. You note the out, but also bubble/flat is common with the slant combination in RPO.
I'll put it into "bad play design" because I don't think it's wrong routes.
I think this could still work if Shea gets rid of the ball quickly - he hitches for a second (:05 mark) which draws the WR in closer together. When he gathers, at least if that is the design, the ball should be coming out if those are you running three slants. But I agree, there is some issue if that doesn't happen. Which leads me to play design. Wisconsin's also in a very good defense to defend against this.
I also think Bell rounds his route a little bit, which could make them a bit closer than planned. It's definitely not as crisp as Nico's cut is. Wouldn't solve the issue, but might not make it as bad.
September 27th, 2019 at 1:15 PM ^
to me, this is a bad route by Collins. Looks like he's supposed to be running more of a dig, underneath the post, which makes way more sense.
if the intended concept was Post/Dig to the boundary, I thought Bell's route needed another step or 2 vertical, before the break, but if you're really not threatening on the ground, it's not going to pop wide open.
My .02
September 27th, 2019 at 8:01 PM ^
I agree.
September 27th, 2019 at 4:08 PM ^
It's times like these where I wish Michigan would just punt and just run the Delaware Wing T or some shit. Any attempt to be modern seems to explode in Michigan's face every time.
September 27th, 2019 at 5:02 PM ^
Late on the throw.
September 27th, 2019 at 8:00 PM ^
In my opinion, if you’re running slants from both sides of the field, both receivers should know both routes. Honestly, one route should be a slant, one route should be a “climb” route which is a deeper slant. Receivers should also have “heads-up” to avoid crashing into each other, which should only take a split second of recognition.