(OT)Things could be worse, we could be Tennessee
What kind of a crap storm is going on in Knoxville? As someone who lives in Tennessee I am calling bull crap on the moral high road being the reason UT fans do not want Schiano. They don't want Schiano because he is not Jon Gruden. UT fans would hire the devil himself if he could beat Bama or Georgia. Now they will owe Butch Jones a buyout and presumably will owe Schiano something because he signed a memo or whatever it was. Not even Dave Brandon could have screwed up worse than UT's AD. I guess my point is things could always be worse.
November 27th, 2017 at 9:54 AM ^
than those who were willing to dispose of him, as most should have. This is, as others have stated, all about the Ws and Ls on the other coach's resume with the exception of Gruden, who although does not outnumber the Ls with the Ws by that much does have the pentultimate win to make many think he's all that.
However, it cannot be argued that Kelly and/or Gruden, given Schiano's background would have been welcomed with open arms.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:00 AM ^
This job has positives, but it also has huge negatives. When they were at their best in the 90's Fulmer had free regin in recruiting the surrounding states. He could go into Georgia, Louisiana, etc. and get the best players. But then Miles was hired at LSU and Richt was hired at Georgia and essentially closed their borders. The problem is that the fanbase has not altered their perception of the program(sound familiar) as being elite. It is still a good job and a good program, just not sure if it can be relevant nationally on a consistent basis. Why does no one ever mention Venables from Clemson as a head coaching candidate?
November 27th, 2017 at 10:31 AM ^
Additionally, back when Tennessee was rolling, they could go also into North Carolina or South Carolina and get whoever they wanted since Clemson (just 3 hours away from Knoxville) was mediocre, South Carolina was a joke, and UNC and NC State were basketball focused.
Flash forward to today and Clemson is one of the best programs in the country, better than Tenn ever was. Today, if you're a top recruit in NC or SC, you're probably going to Clemson. South Carolina has been down post Spurrier but it now has the same ceiling as Tennessee. And while NC State and UNC are still basketball schools, they are far more competitive than they used to be and offer in state talent a viable option relative to going out of state.
November 27th, 2017 at 11:07 AM ^
and the one before are correct. Tennessee's recruiting has been hurt by the improvement of various programs in states where they used to recruit well.
At the same time, how did LSU, Clemson, etc. become places that will win recruiting battles with Tennessee?
By making coaching hires that turned them around or turned them from very average to consistent winners.
If Tennesee makes a great hire (not looking great so far, buy who knows?), and other programs stumble a bit (sooner of later it always happens), there is no reason that Tennessee can't regain the upper hand in those recruiting areas.
November 27th, 2017 at 12:14 PM ^
Tennessee's recruiting rankings (even amidst this decade of slop) is
2017 #17
2016 #14
2015 #4
2014 #7
2013 #25
A good head coach can still make Tennessee a 9-10 win program regularly in the SEC East. If they would stop hiring the Derek Dooleys and the Butch Joneses of the world, they'd be a very good team
November 27th, 2017 at 6:21 PM ^
That largely depends on Georgia and Florida. To win 9-10 games a year UT must:
Beat whoever they play in the non conference, which is sometimes a high level opponent.
They also much beat one of Alabama, UGA, or UF every year.
They also must beat their other SEC West opponent every year no matter who it is.
They have to beat South Carolina every year.
They must never be upset by the likes of Missouri, Vanderbilt, and Kentucky.
That's hard to do when you are not on the Georgia, Florida, Alabama level and South Carolina is on your level. Remember, before this year Georgia hasn't been overly dominant the past decade and Florida has been mediocre. UT still couldn't beat either of them with any consistency. Now consider that Georgia is trending up under Smart. UF just hired the best coach available not named Kelly or Frost, and Saban will probably be at Alabama for the next 4-5 years.
Given all that, I don't think it's realistic to win 9-10 games a year. Quite frankly, the Butch Jones era is probably what the next 5 years will look like under the next coach, winning 7-8 games a year most years with the occasional 9-10 game season. UT has massive resources so they will never completely fade away, but winning the SEC and getting into the playoff isn't happening unless you hire a Chip Kelly/transformational coach. I think UT fans are delusional and the response to the Schiano hire was an examploe of it but I also think they recognized that Schiano or a Schiano level hire isn't going to propel UT to the top of the SEC East. Hence the delusions of grandeur in the form of Gruden.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:01 AM ^
Had the testimony about him at PSU been released, he would have been shown the door at Michigan. Previously hired or not. One of many differences between what can go on at Ohio State and what can go on here.
We're never going to be Ohio State or Alabama or Clemson. And that's a good thing.
Michigan can still measure up on the field and will.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:09 AM ^
about Schiano. God that whole mess is just nightmarish and keeps coming back. Those poor kids.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:03 AM ^
If this fanbase drives out Harbaugh, we will be Tennessee. Or Nebraska. Take your pick.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:07 AM ^
But I don't see any real chance of that happening. But I agree 100%. Those that want to get all Hard Line on the man after this year would put us in that position.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:35 AM ^
that's the thing, the 'unacceptable' crowd is already out in full force, at least on my facebook. When I try to point out why things are the way they are, people just get unhinged and talk about expectations and blah blah "NC or bust". It's getting tiresome.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:50 AM ^
Have you considered the possibility that the people on your facebook are total idiots?
Nobody in their right mind, much less associated with Michigan Athletics, is going to drive out Harbaugh, or even make his job harder in any way.
It's obvious to anyone paying attention he is going to be able to stay, even begged to stay, as long as he wants.
I'm very much good with that, myself, and would not hestitate to say it, even on your facebook.
November 27th, 2017 at 12:13 PM ^
Can we be facebook friends? :)
November 27th, 2017 at 11:06 AM ^
Are the people who wanted RR gone after one year or Hoke gone after year 3.
Those coaches may have been fired, but they were wrong then and they're wrong now. RR wasn't fired for going 3-9...he was fired for failing to do anything in Big Ten play and fielding a historically bad defense in year 3. Hoke was fired for his disastrous 4th year with a cratering offense, most notably after he completely failed basic head coaching duties in his handling of Morris against Minnesota (not to mention the fact that he benched a 5th year senior for Morris...who proceeded to play not just worse, but exponentially worse).
Harbaugh's seat is not warm. It's not even close to warm. Any claim to the contrary is wrong and counterproductive. The program has a great coach...we need to give him the stability required to actually build something. Aspects have certainly been underwhelming, particularly against rivals...but sometimes the randomness of sports is a cruel mistress and you lose on a once-in-a-lifetime play, or a spot is incorrectly called by biased refs, or a monsoon descends onto your stadium when you need to lead a comeback, or you are down two QBs from injury and have to start your clearly-not-good-enough transfer. I'm not saying Harbaugh is immune to criticism...but I do not want to hear about any "hot seats", unless you want a program that wallows in misery for another 2 decades after pushing away the one good thing that's happened to them in 20 years.
November 27th, 2017 at 1:03 PM ^
Harbaugh isn't anywhere close to a hot seat. However if we lose to ND, MSU, and OSU next year it might become room temperature. 2018 and 2019 are going to be important years for this program and I don't think it is unreasonable to expect a 3-3 record against our rivals in the next two years and at least one appearance in the big ten championship game. If we don't get that I'd say we can discuss what that means program expectations wise for 2020 and beyond. But winning is a cure all and it is time to start winning.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:24 AM ^
At the end of the day it's about winning. That's all it is. If Schiano was a proven HC (beyond just being okay at Rutgers) and showed he could win big games (never won a Big East title), and if he didn't have a total shitstain of a tenure in the NFL where he alienated himself from the whole organization, UT fans would've overlooked his Sandusky connections and just said "it's water under the bridge," "it was inconclusive evidence, innocent until proven guilty," and so on.
I'm not going to shit on UT for that because this kind of rationalization would happen at most any school in the country if it were in UT's position. But let's call it what it is: UT doesn't want Schiano because he is what he is, and what he is is just not very good. He'd be good for winning 7-9 games a year at UT, but would probably never beat Georgia, would be underdogs most years against Florida, and would certainly never beat Alabama while Saban is in charge. Most kids will not want to play for complete hardass who also does not win games. Saban is a hardass but kids line up to play for him because he wins titles and sends countless kids to the draft. Schiano does not have anything close to that luxury.
The fact that Schiano is tied to Sandusky and "allegedly" knew what was happening is just their way to take the moral high ground and justify why they're right for not wanting him.
November 27th, 2017 at 10:27 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 11:24 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 11:41 AM ^
November 27th, 2017 at 12:43 PM ^
We could be Tennesee, or Florida, or Texas, or Texas A&M, or any number of other schools that used to be good that now suck.
I mean shit, look at what kind of year FSU had. People need to stop bitching about an 8-4 season with the youngest team in football. Things are headed in the right direction.
November 27th, 2017 at 1:00 PM ^
Just curious - I don't suppose he is a viable candidate there.
November 27th, 2017 at 1:05 PM ^
Likely will remain the interim coach until they hire a new permanent coach. They need somebody talking to recruits.