OT: Is the University planning to walk away from its Flint regional campus?
Rumors are flying about the viability of the Flint campus. Anyone privy to what’s likely to happen - as in, leaving Flint entirely or right-sizing the brick and mortar obligations?
The Flint campus was established when a General Motors co-founder, C.S. Mott, agreed to fund the Children’s Hospital in exchange for it. Similar to the Ford family establishing the Dearborn campus.
75 years later the Flint campus is languishing. Regional peers like Oakland and Grand Valley poured billions into modernizing their campuses, while UM-Flint looks antiquated and austere. Enrollment has crashed, to the point the University seems to be questioning the point for it to even exist. I assume the online course boom since 2020 underscores the point that a fading brick and mortar regional school is a colossal money sink.
January 29th, 2023 at 10:52 AM ^
Source?
January 29th, 2023 at 11:00 AM ^
Its “financial viability” and “strategic plan” for survival have been in the news for the last year. And the higher education bloodhound at Freep, David Jesse, is currently pursuing a piece.
January 29th, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^
Not a huge fan of David Jesse's grasp on higher ed, to be honest.
In all reality, it's a bit strange that Michigan has gone so far on establishing a presence in Detroit while more or less letting its longstanding commitments in Flint go by the wayside. If it were up to me, I would have spent that energy and those resources on Flint and Dearborn, which would have gone a lot farther than what they've got going on in Midtown.
January 29th, 2023 at 6:06 PM ^
Isn’t David Jesse on the Freep ban list?
January 29th, 2023 at 2:44 PM ^
Having lived in Flint and taught at the University of Michigan-Flint, I have three thoughts.
1. Branch campuses were historically a big deal in the 1950s and 1960s. (Compare other states, especially California and Texas.) What I heard is that UM resisted expansion but were persuaded (pushed?) by Mott $ and the then-major political clout of Flint.
2. The students were terrific. Though many were first in their family to attend college, and not all were well prepared for college work, most of them recognized the value of UM-Flint in getting their foot on the ladder of upward mobility. So they worked hard, eager to get what they could out of what the education offered.
3. Though Ann Arbor tends to look down on Flint, I don't see how AA could sever the link, politically or bureaucratically..
January 29th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
How could anyone pass up the allure that is Flint?
January 29th, 2023 at 11:13 AM ^
I drove through Flint right before COVID and it was the only city remotely close to Gary Indiana with regards to pure dread.
January 29th, 2023 at 11:18 AM ^
Touché. It’s still noble to provide working class kids in that Genesee, Livingston, and Thumb region of the state–east of I-75, north of I-69–access to a life-changing U-M bachelor’s degree program. If they downsize the campus footprint, I would hope there is justification for departments like nursing, teaching, engineering and business to remain. But who knows, online courses and 100% online degrees have permanently disrupted regional colleges.
January 29th, 2023 at 12:07 PM ^
It's also a question of demography. UM-Flint was founded at the height of the baby boom (1956), when the school-age population was exploding and new schools at all levels of education needed to be founded in response.
Nowadays, the total number of high school students in Michigan is declining, and a campus like Flint isn't likely to attract a lot of out-of-state students. The state of Michigan has 15 public universities and a lot of them are feeling an enrollment crunch (though not U-M). In the future it might not make sense to keep all of them around.
January 29th, 2023 at 12:24 PM ^
I've often thought that the race to raise tuition and upgrade facilities that all/most schools are undergoing will result in some schools eventually losing the battle. They will be unable to compete with the spending required, new students will pick the ones that are more attractive, and some of the less fortunate universities will ultimately close.
January 29th, 2023 at 1:13 PM ^
Oh yeah, this has been brewing for awhile. Pretty sure PA is having this same issue right now. The big flagships will be fine, but in these northern states with declining population, a lot of regional schools are taking huge hits, and campuses are just imploding in a lot of ways. At the same time, there is bound to be massive pushback politically to closing them.
January 29th, 2023 at 2:42 PM ^
If students don't want to go to UM-Flint, nobody's gonna stop 'em.
January 29th, 2023 at 2:52 PM ^
Our state universities are embedded in the constitution, rather than being legislative creations. It gives them very wide autonomy, and makes it very hard to just do away with them.
January 29th, 2023 at 11:20 AM ^
People live there, you know, and UM-Flint serves an important need. Maybe check the casual assumptions behind your post.
January 29th, 2023 at 11:29 AM ^
Maybe you should check your assumption behind my casual sarcasm.
January 29th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
Good to know it’s sarcasm. It’s an important fixture in a city that needs what the university provides. Being in Flint should be what a great public university is about, particularly one with the mission espoused by Michigan.
January 29th, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^
Espoused. The operative word.
January 29th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^
I would expect nothing less from someone from Romeo.
January 29th, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^
Romeo is currently being abandoned by Ford Motor Company (large factory and presumably their training grounds). He ought to have some empathy.
January 29th, 2023 at 3:07 PM ^
Ford just invested a lot into the Michigan Proving Grounds in Romeo after selling their large facility in AZ to Chrysler. They have another smaller place NW of Phoenix, but it's not sufficient for many tests. So they improved MPG to be their main test facility. I doubt they would abandon it unless they have recently made other plans.
January 29th, 2023 at 5:13 PM ^
You mean he's not the 50th boyfriend of that promiscuous Capulet woman?
January 29th, 2023 at 11:50 AM ^
I still rock a UM Flint license plate because I'm proud I went there. I can usually tell people who haven't hung out downtown when they say things like this.
January 29th, 2023 at 2:10 PM ^
You gotta love all the, "When I saw Flint from I-75...” commentary. I grew up in downtown Flint and 90% of Michiganders have no idea how cool it is.
January 29th, 2023 at 11:03 AM ^
Dunno, but I have seen more ads for UM-Flint in the last couple months than I have ever before.
January 29th, 2023 at 11:08 AM ^
I still remember Andrew Heller upset that I didn't pass him the ball in a game of pickup at the UM Flint rec center.
January 29th, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
Was he open?
January 29th, 2023 at 12:56 PM ^
Normal open just like everyone else. Not CJ vs OSU open.
January 29th, 2023 at 11:22 AM ^
I don't know that much about the situation, but from what I've heard, it's more about cutting out some of the programs, mostly liberal arts, majors like Spanish, etc., than planning to close the whole thing. I didn't talk to this guy much about it, but I talked to a philosophy professor there who agrees they do need to do some downsizing, retooling, or whatever, to focus more on computer fields, medical fields, and what not. I remember master's in nursing and PT being pretty big there before.
My guess would be it doesn't really have that much to do with online courses. I'm not sure what boom you're referring to. Everyone went online during COVID but I wouldn't call that a boom and it seems most schools are back in-person? There was a huge drop in enrollment in colleges during COVID throughout the country that hasn't rebounded, so it's not surprising a small university in Flint would struggle with that. Too bad. Flint doesn't need anything else closing. It was growing in the early 2000s when I was there. Not booming of course, but some. William White building was brand new. They had just built student housing for the first time after I graduated. Most students were commuters from the area, like me, and I'm sure it doesn't help that the metro population is still shrinking.
January 29th, 2023 at 12:12 PM ^
I'm not sure what boom you're referring to. Everyone went online during COVID but I wouldn't call that a boom and it seems most schools are back in-person?
Things are back to normal in Ann Arbor. I read Oakland and Wayne community colleges are now essentially permanently more than 60% online courses. I wouldn’t doubt it if over half of all U-M Dearborn and Flint students are in remote courses. And there are so many more institutions in the online degree space, presumably including U-M Flint, with a prominent national example being Arizona State. Why drive to and from downtown Flint for a bachelor’s you can now earn from your kitchen table? To working class kids on the margins and non-traditional students, it’s expensive and a burden to commute to and from. And to a university, why keep all those now half (or more) empty buildings and parking lots on your books?
January 29th, 2023 at 12:24 PM ^
Most regional schools in the Midwest are struggling w/ enrollment, but UM-Flint and CMU seem to have the biggest structural challenges.
For UM-Flint: (1) generally declining economic and demographic conditions in Genesee County and the Thumb, (2) the rise of online education, (3) the growth of nearby Oakland University as a second-tier University option for students in that area, and (4) the fact that Michigan as a whole funds Public Universities at more anemic rates than most states.
That region of the state should have a public University option. It would be a loss if it didn't. UM-Flint ideally defines something that makes them unique and cool, and then markets that successfully. I don't know what that is, though.
January 29th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
I’m assuming both CMU and UM-Flint offer 100% online degrees, so the question is why commute or move to Mount Pleasant or Flint if you can finish your degree in your kitchen? You also have more prestigious nationally ranked universities offering online degrees, so if you’re pursuing a 100% online degree, why not enroll at a higher-regarded, cost-neutral nationally ranked college? I’d think CMU and UM-Flint, especially their online degree programs, need to be much cheaper to compete going forward. Or why wouldn’t Ann Arbor simply cut out the middle man and offer the high-margin 100% online degrees themselves?
January 29th, 2023 at 2:11 PM ^
You're not going to see U-M go that route unless things get absolutely desperate financially. It would see that as cheapening the value of a degree.
January 29th, 2023 at 3:09 PM ^
UM-AA already offers both degree completion online programs (in dental hygiene and nursing) and numerous fully online graduate degrees (mostly in engineering adjacent fields but also social work, one of the most prestigious programs at the school), fwiw
January 29th, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^
I think it worth exploring the question of whether operating satellite campus in Flint and Dearborn is consistent with the core mission of the University. If there is little synergy between these campuses and the main campus in Ann Arbor, then perhaps the facilities should be spun off and administered by someone other than the Regents of the University of Michigan. I think the Regents are more interested in running satellite hospitals than satellite schools.
January 29th, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
How is it inconsistent?
January 29th, 2023 at 11:45 AM ^
It’s absolutely consistent with the mission of Michigan, especially if it’s not as profitable as a satellite hospital.
January 29th, 2023 at 11:58 AM ^
Maybe the Regents should double-down on Flint. Modernize its academic campus and take over the city-owned Hurley Hospital, as they just did with Lansing’s Sparrow Hospital. Regents could pitch that as a package deal to get the hospital. Not without precedent for a city-owned hospital to change hands. DMC in Detroit was sold in ‘03-04.
January 29th, 2023 at 3:17 PM ^
Not a bad idea. Campus isn't far from Hurley at all. Medical fields seem to be the ones doing the best at UM-Flint anyway.
January 29th, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
I don’t know enough to know whether it’s a good or a bad idea but closing that campus would be unfortunate.
January 29th, 2023 at 12:08 PM ^
I agree, wholeheartedly!
January 29th, 2023 at 12:33 PM ^
For me it would be heartbreaking. I'm a Flint native and an '82 grad of UM-Flint, and I always took a great deal of pride in the fact that my school was one of the few viable parts of the city. Through all the years of economic downturn and the population loss and the Flint-River-lead-in-your-drinking-water era, there was always my school. So personally, to have it not be there would be very, very hard.
January 29th, 2023 at 1:46 PM ^
I see zero chance that they would close the campus. Zero.
Flint is an internationally-known name, infamously, because of the water crisis. If U of M, which is one of the wealthiest universities in the world, and a public one at that, decided "Our mission is not to help the people of Flint and the surrounding public; we don't have the money or capability" the amount of blowback would be immense, from politicians to community groups to donors, not to mention students (in Ann Arbor, not just Flint). It would be incredibly disruptive.
Santa Ono seems like a smart guy and I can't believe he would advise the Regents, in any way, to make it seem like U of M would be abandoning Flint.
That doesn't mean there won't be changes, but that campus will stay open and will be given every chance to succeed (e.g., they should do more to make it easier to transfer from Flint, after a year or two, to the Ann Arbor campus, if students so choose).
January 29th, 2023 at 2:57 PM ^
I agree that politically, it would be difficult to close the campus. But something needs to be done to make it a more attractive place for people to go to school.
From 2017-21, these were UM-Flint's yearly freshman enrollment numbers:
2017: 688
2018: 669
2019: 604
2020: 559
2021: 495
To put that in perspective, here are the respective numbers at Saginaw Valley State:
2017: 1,231
2018: 1,577
2019: 1,470
2020: 1,382
2021: 1,336
And at U-M Dearborn:
2017: 1,106
2018: 1,093
2019: 1,009
2020: 1,003
2021: 1,084
I'm shocked how low enrollment at UM-Flint is. Worse, it's trended further down, while the numbers for the others seem stable.
It's not surprising that it would be in financial difficulty. I'm not sure making it easier for UMF students to transfer to Ann Arbor is the answer. They need more people on campus, period.
January 30th, 2023 at 4:01 PM ^
Wow. I didn't realize how tiny all of those schools were to begin with. Wild.
January 29th, 2023 at 12:11 PM ^
I ride my bike through campus regularly on the way to work. They just put a huge new addition on the science building, but I admit I don't see a lot of students. They expanded their dorm space before COVID but not sure how that is working out. They also attract students from out of state and country.
January 29th, 2023 at 4:15 PM ^
I just looked up this new UM-Flint building. It’s actually a wing onto an existing building and cost $39 million. It appears to be the largest construction project on the Flint campus in 20 years. That is totally inexcusable.
Off the top of my head, in the last couple of years in Ann Arbor: $950 million new Pavilion Hospital, $145 million Leinweber Computer Science and Information Building, $75 million Ford Robotics Building, $190 million Central Campus dorms, $261 million Bio Sciences Building, $165 million new CCRB, $135 million renovation of Ross, $150 million renovation of Ruthven.
Point being, a $39 million wing doesn’t modernize a regional campus. Flint’s campus requires more than ten times that to sum to begin competing with Oakland and Grand Valley’s facilities.
January 29th, 2023 at 6:33 PM ^
Now you're talking, Chuck. At first I thought you were actually one of the U-M Regents trying to shut down the campus. Given that the Mott Foundation has generou$ly supported the University over the years, I really doubt that U-M Ann Arbor would take drastic measures such as complete closure of the Flint campus. That would be incredibly short-sighted. I think what you may see in Flint is a complete overhaul of how college education is delivered.
January 29th, 2023 at 12:23 PM ^
Politically, it will be impossible for UM to walk away from the Flint campus. Santa has already made a few public announcements about the importance of the Flint campus.
January 29th, 2023 at 12:56 PM ^
Some of you haven’t been to downtown Flint… where the University resides, and it shows. I grew up in Flint Township. I Lived in apartments downtown during undergrad. I still use the rec center there every day. So I’ve spent a considerable amount of time in and around the city. The years downtown during undergrad were awesome. Great restaurants and bar scene. Student life thrives downtown.
Most of the negativity is coming from people who have never spent time in the city. The downtown area has become a hot bed for restaurants and bars. The days of “Scary Flint” post GM exodus are in the rear view mirror. Of course there are still parts of Flint that aren’t great. Mostly the north side and Burton to the east. Get downtown and go to Tenacity Brewing, Sauce (located in the new Hilton across the street from UM), Churchills for some of the best cocktails and hard to find whiskey. Genesee Health Systems just built a beautiful building (first build of an entire new complex) that will continue to hire graduates from UM-F. Many people who work downtown live in new construction or renovated flats and apartments near campus/ Saginaw Street.
Besides, The Mott Foundation… who practically owns the City and obviously has a vested interest in the university Would not let them walk away from UM-Flint easily.
Someone noted the expansion to the science wing. I took a tour through there with a former professor and it looks brilliant. The new cadaver labs especially. As for The expansion to the student housing, it was much needed… even in the last few years they haven’t been able to handle all applicants.
On the note of downsizing or doing away with some liberal arts programs. This breaks my heart to hear. All though just rumors at this point, I will be voicing my concerns and bringing these rumors up with Latinx Technology and Community Center, Mott Foundation, Flint City Council and Crim Fitness Foundation.
The University plays a pivotal role in the community. Students rely on this regional school for many reasons. I would expect a public university of Michigan’s caliber to understand the importance they play in this community.
/rant